6 ms·

I don't know about people actually believing they have more intrinsic value because they make more than minimum wage, I just think the problems comes from a few

I don't know about people actually believing they have more intrinsic value because they make more than minimum wage, I just think the problems comes from a few areas: - They were/are getting treated like shit and are transferring the energy on - People are increasingly 'busy' leading to higher levels of stress and anxiety that just have them snapping easier - There's a lot more of us than there used to be, so even if the percentages stayed constant, there's a lot more f%cking twats running around out there Especially with younger people I professionally interact with (I'm 34), but also with age peers, I've noticed that a shockingly large percentage have never had that job experience of working at a place that was crappy, for minimal pay, bad hours, tough work, etc. Generally they didn't work at all until maybe a couple of internships in college, or some other form of light entry into the workforce. I think it really does something to create a lack of empathy for those people not in a situation exactly like ours. My personal belief is it doesn't matter what our two situations are, being an asshole is being an asshole. If you're going to be a jerk to someone who's working a random lunch counter, you're probably just generally a jerk the majority of the time. Wealth, status, fame, are no excuses for a lack of human decency.

ryanmarsh 10y ago
> being an asshole is being an asshole. If you're going to be a jerk to someone who's working a random lunch counter, you're probably just generally a jerk I'd take it step further. You should be gracious to a fault to the person at the lunch counter. Their life categorically sucks.
- gm-conspiracy 10y ago
  Wow.
- 67726e 10y ago
  > I'd take it step further. You should be gracious to a fault to the person at the lunch counter. Their life categorically sucks. That's awfully fucking judgmental. I've got friends who have been working in the service industry their whole life. Many of them are much happier than I am. Just because you have some high paying office job doesn't mean your life is automatically better.
  - learc83 10y ago
    I worked retail customer service and then tech support for years before I got a high paying office job. Money doesn't makes life your life automatically better, but it does make it many times easier. It won't solve all your problems, but solves a heck of a lot of them. I try to treat service employees well, not because of some patronizing sense of responsibility, but because I empathize with their position. They have a crappy job and low pay. Dealing with the stress of computer generated everchanging schedules, rude customers, and management that treats you like a child is bad enough. When you couple that with barley making enough to survive, it's a pretty tough existence (realitive to my own).
    - 67726e 10y ago
      > They have a crappy job and low pay. Dealing with the stress of computer generated everchanging schedules, rude customers, and management that treats you like a child is bad enough. When you couple that with barley making enough to survive, it's a pretty tough existence (realitive to my own). It's possible to make quite a nice living working F&B, a customer service job, in a tourist town. Don't just assume everyone working a role is beneath you and living some kind of shit existence.
      - learc83 10y ago
        It has nothing to do with them being beneath me. Their are people making a nice living in every industry. The overwhelming majority of service workers do not. There's a possibility that my middle-aged waitress is independently wealthy and just doing this for fun, that doesn't stop me from leaving a $100 at Christmas time. It's not because I think I'm better than her, it's because in all likelihood, I've been just a bit luckier than her financialy.
        maccard 10y ago
        > It's not because I think I'm better than her, it's because in all likelihood, I've been just a bit luckier than her financialy. This is exactly what people here are talking about. The $100 tip shouldn't have anything to do with you being luckier financially, it should be a gesture of appreciation. A $100 tip isn't a gesture of appreciation normally, it's a gesture of "I am more fortunate than you, but I take pity on you so here you are."
- dvtv75 10y ago
  I'm of the same opinion, they're working for minimum wage or near enough to it, maybe just being nice to them will make their day a bit better. I've worked those jobs, and have been abused for an incompetent (or lying) boss. It's not my fault, please don't scream at me. One guy did shout at me while I was out on a job, and then when I finished he gave me a bottle of a nice wine by way of gratitude for the work done and apology. That put a spring in my step (even if I don't drink wine). Be nice to front line staff, because as you say, their lives suck.
lowmagnet 10y ago
I think like some countries do mandatory military service, mandatory retail experience would do a lot of good for some people. Not until you have dealt with retail or restaurant customers are you truly armored against harshness the world. Seeing it from the other side also helps to build empathy for the people working the retail space.
- arkitaip 10y ago
  Worked in retail in various positions and I would also recommend the retail experience for any aspiring entrepreneur, especially folks tumbling down the e-commerce rabbit hole. Being able to provide good customer service while under fire builds character. That or it will break you and you will flee retail like the plague.
  - manyxcxi 10y ago
    I think it's a huge character builder. You realize that some people are outright assholes and the most annoying thing you can do to them is keep your cool and kill them with kindness. Others are actually stupid, but most are just uninformed about whatever it is when they're 'bothering' you with questions. There are so many sysiphian tasks in retail that you either come to the point where very little can shock you, or you're just kind of broken.
- refurb 10y ago
  As a parent, I am sure as hell going to have my kid working a retail job for at least a few summers. It helps kids realize the kind of job they'll have if they don't work hard for something better (that was a huge incentive for me) and the kind of shit retail workers put up with (and that you should try to make their lives better).
  - manyxcxi 10y ago
    My first 'real' job in HS I worked in the warehouse at Circuit City as seasonal staff (getting ready for the holidays) in 1998/99. 5am Saturday truck unloads, snotty people pissed that you can't fit a 32" CRT in the back seat of a Honda Civic, getting 100+ pound TVs from 3 stories up. Eventually I got the happy talk that I was no longer seasonal, I was sticking around- I was the only warehouse guy that got that and I was proud, even though it was $7/hr job with me carrying heavy shit, my work ethic was being acknowledged. You learn a lot about gracefully doing things you don't really want to and finding a way to be the best you can be at the task at hand and deriving your satisfaction from doing the best you can, knowing that you gave it honest effort. I hustled my ass off, it was mindless, things were heavy and I was the big strong guy- that meant I got 90% of the fridges and rear projections and monster CRTs (looking at you Sony). I became 'that guy' for something, I had a 'skill' useful to the business that stood above others, that became my motivation. Do good work, stand out with quality. Follow that with stints as a motorcycle mechanic, a farm hand on a dairy farm, a job site laborer, and a summer doing roofs- there's literally nothing I can be asked to do in an office environment that is more grueling or requires more effort than any of those things- and I pay more in taxes every year than I probably made at all of those jobs combined. I've been in the middle of some pretty shitty projects where I was having to give people the pep talks to keep them from quitting or to see it through to the end. 24+ year old 'adults' literally crying about not being able to take it anymore. I don't look down on them for being emotional, hell, I don't look down on them at all, but my first thought every time is you have no idea what a tough day of work really is. As an aside, I'm not talking about not being able to handle harassment or some type of political infighting or all of those interpersonal issues that can have real and lasting emotional consequences. I'm talking about a shitty project or grueling stretch of work that has gone sideways that has everyone working long hours to try and save it.
specialist 10y ago
I dated someone who lived in a Section 8 housing complex. It was a major eye opener. Every one was terrible to every one else. I'd never seen anything like it. It validated the observation that the middle class has nothing to worry about from the lower class, they're too busy tearing into each other. Generally, people behave poorly, are easily controlled/distracted, when they're scared and stressed. Like when they can't pay their bills. This Great Unraveling, where no one feel financially stable or secure, is turning everyone into savages.
- CloudYeller 10y ago
  I used to volunteer with meals on wheels in Harlem, and I swear the people in those buildings were 10x nicer and friendlier than the people in my own lower manhattan apt building. In the projects, people always make eye contact and say "good morning"; in my building, people pretended like the other tenants didn't exist.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  I wouldn't generalize too much based on a single experience. I live nearby a low income city owned apartment complex. It's not a high rise, but is more dense than the surrounding houses. There are many elderly people there who go out of their way to be nice to me and my family when we walk by. But there are others who don't have enough respect for the neighborhood not to just throw their garbage on the street. Literally garbage bags in front of their doors on their sidewalk (they have garbage cans less than 20 ft away which they could instead use). I wish I could understand why they don't see this as their own neighborhood and should treat it with more respect. Generally what I notice is that there are some people with some mental issues who just yell and scream at people randomly. They need more than just housing help, but hey this is America, healthcare for those at the top is great. Then there are the elderly who IMO are the ones most deserving of the housig help. Generally something feels broken, but I'm not clear what the fix is, it's definitely not one thing. And I don't think it's just money, because anyone living there is getting a substantially lower rent than market rate, and that's really my main point. I don't believe the root cause is money, as much as it's less education; mental or physical issues that make traditional work hard; and some misaligned societal incentives. Those all lead to financial issues that landed them there; basically financial hardship for many that I see is more of a symptom of a greater societal problem. I'm definitely no expert, and have never had to deal with any of that personally.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

> being an asshole is being an asshole. If you're going to be a jerk to someone who's working a random lunch counter, you're probably just generally a jerk I'd take it step further. You should be gracious to a fault to the person at the lunch counter. Their life categorically sucks.

gm-conspiracy 10y ago
Wow.
67726e 10y ago
> I'd take it step further. You should be gracious to a fault to the person at the lunch counter. Their life categorically sucks. That's awfully fucking judgmental. I've got friends who have been working in the service industry their whole life. Many of them are much happier than I am. Just because you have some high paying office job doesn't mean your life is automatically better.
- learc83 10y ago
  I worked retail customer service and then tech support for years before I got a high paying office job. Money doesn't makes life your life automatically better, but it does make it many times easier. It won't solve all your problems, but solves a heck of a lot of them. I try to treat service employees well, not because of some patronizing sense of responsibility, but because I empathize with their position. They have a crappy job and low pay. Dealing with the stress of computer generated everchanging schedules, rude customers, and management that treats you like a child is bad enough. When you couple that with barley making enough to survive, it's a pretty tough existence (realitive to my own).
  - 67726e 10y ago
    > They have a crappy job and low pay. Dealing with the stress of computer generated everchanging schedules, rude customers, and management that treats you like a child is bad enough. When you couple that with barley making enough to survive, it's a pretty tough existence (realitive to my own). It's possible to make quite a nice living working F&B, a customer service job, in a tourist town. Don't just assume everyone working a role is beneath you and living some kind of shit existence.
    - learc83 10y ago
      It has nothing to do with them being beneath me. Their are people making a nice living in every industry. The overwhelming majority of service workers do not. There's a possibility that my middle-aged waitress is independently wealthy and just doing this for fun, that doesn't stop me from leaving a $100 at Christmas time. It's not because I think I'm better than her, it's because in all likelihood, I've been just a bit luckier than her financialy.
      - maccard 10y ago
        > It's not because I think I'm better than her, it's because in all likelihood, I've been just a bit luckier than her financialy. This is exactly what people here are talking about. The $100 tip shouldn't have anything to do with you being luckier financially, it should be a gesture of appreciation. A $100 tip isn't a gesture of appreciation normally, it's a gesture of "I am more fortunate than you, but I take pity on you so here you are."
dvtv75 10y ago
I'm of the same opinion, they're working for minimum wage or near enough to it, maybe just being nice to them will make their day a bit better. I've worked those jobs, and have been abused for an incompetent (or lying) boss. It's not my fault, please don't scream at me. One guy did shout at me while I was out on a job, and then when I finished he gave me a bottle of a nice wine by way of gratitude for the work done and apology. That put a spring in my step (even if I don't drink wine). Be nice to front line staff, because as you say, their lives suck.

lowmagnet 10y ago

I think like some countries do mandatory military service, mandatory retail experience would do a lot of good for some people. Not until you have dealt with retail or restaurant customers are you truly armored against harshness the world. Seeing it from the other side also helps to build empathy for the people working the retail space.

arkitaip 10y ago
Worked in retail in various positions and I would also recommend the retail experience for any aspiring entrepreneur, especially folks tumbling down the e-commerce rabbit hole. Being able to provide good customer service while under fire builds character. That or it will break you and you will flee retail like the plague.
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  I think it's a huge character builder. You realize that some people are outright assholes and the most annoying thing you can do to them is keep your cool and kill them with kindness. Others are actually stupid, but most are just uninformed about whatever it is when they're 'bothering' you with questions. There are so many sysiphian tasks in retail that you either come to the point where very little can shock you, or you're just kind of broken.
refurb 10y ago
As a parent, I am sure as hell going to have my kid working a retail job for at least a few summers. It helps kids realize the kind of job they'll have if they don't work hard for something better (that was a huge incentive for me) and the kind of shit retail workers put up with (and that you should try to make their lives better).
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  My first 'real' job in HS I worked in the warehouse at Circuit City as seasonal staff (getting ready for the holidays) in 1998/99. 5am Saturday truck unloads, snotty people pissed that you can't fit a 32" CRT in the back seat of a Honda Civic, getting 100+ pound TVs from 3 stories up. Eventually I got the happy talk that I was no longer seasonal, I was sticking around- I was the only warehouse guy that got that and I was proud, even though it was $7/hr job with me carrying heavy shit, my work ethic was being acknowledged. You learn a lot about gracefully doing things you don't really want to and finding a way to be the best you can be at the task at hand and deriving your satisfaction from doing the best you can, knowing that you gave it honest effort. I hustled my ass off, it was mindless, things were heavy and I was the big strong guy- that meant I got 90% of the fridges and rear projections and monster CRTs (looking at you Sony). I became 'that guy' for something, I had a 'skill' useful to the business that stood above others, that became my motivation. Do good work, stand out with quality. Follow that with stints as a motorcycle mechanic, a farm hand on a dairy farm, a job site laborer, and a summer doing roofs- there's literally nothing I can be asked to do in an office environment that is more grueling or requires more effort than any of those things- and I pay more in taxes every year than I probably made at all of those jobs combined. I've been in the middle of some pretty shitty projects where I was having to give people the pep talks to keep them from quitting or to see it through to the end. 24+ year old 'adults' literally crying about not being able to take it anymore. I don't look down on them for being emotional, hell, I don't look down on them at all, but my first thought every time is you have no idea what a tough day of work really is. As an aside, I'm not talking about not being able to handle harassment or some type of political infighting or all of those interpersonal issues that can have real and lasting emotional consequences. I'm talking about a shitty project or grueling stretch of work that has gone sideways that has everyone working long hours to try and save it.

specialist 10y ago

I dated someone who lived in a Section 8 housing complex. It was a major eye opener. Every one was terrible to every one else. I'd never seen anything like it. It validated the observation that the middle class has nothing to worry about from the lower class, they're too busy tearing into each other. Generally, people behave poorly, are easily controlled/distracted, when they're scared and stressed. Like when they can't pay their bills. This Great Unraveling, where no one feel financially stable or secure, is turning everyone into savages.

CloudYeller 10y ago
I used to volunteer with meals on wheels in Harlem, and I swear the people in those buildings were 10x nicer and friendlier than the people in my own lower manhattan apt building. In the projects, people always make eye contact and say "good morning"; in my building, people pretended like the other tenants didn't exist.
bluejekyll 10y ago
I wouldn't generalize too much based on a single experience. I live nearby a low income city owned apartment complex. It's not a high rise, but is more dense than the surrounding houses. There are many elderly people there who go out of their way to be nice to me and my family when we walk by. But there are others who don't have enough respect for the neighborhood not to just throw their garbage on the street. Literally garbage bags in front of their doors on their sidewalk (they have garbage cans less than 20 ft away which they could instead use). I wish I could understand why they don't see this as their own neighborhood and should treat it with more respect. Generally what I notice is that there are some people with some mental issues who just yell and scream at people randomly. They need more than just housing help, but hey this is America, healthcare for those at the top is great. Then there are the elderly who IMO are the ones most deserving of the housig help. Generally something feels broken, but I'm not clear what the fix is, it's definitely not one thing. And I don't think it's just money, because anyone living there is getting a substantially lower rent than market rate, and that's really my main point. I don't believe the root cause is money, as much as it's less education; mental or physical issues that make traditional work hard; and some misaligned societal incentives. Those all lead to financial issues that landed them there; basically financial hardship for many that I see is more of a symptom of a greater societal problem. I'm definitely no expert, and have never had to deal with any of that personally.