5 ms·

what is going on with all this coverage of a tiny company with an expensive product? is there some kind of media conspiracy going on? I'm legit asking. This sto

what is going on with all this coverage of a tiny company with an expensive product? is there some kind of media conspiracy going on? I'm legit asking. This story is now running in like 10 different high traffic media sites in the last 24 hours and I had literally never heard of it before this morning. Nor do I care. so can someone clue me in? it smells like there's some weird behind-the-scenes manipulation going on here. something off about this.

cosmie 10y ago
Because that tiny company somehow roped in $120mm in funding. And after Bloomberg did a story on it, people realized how absurd it was.
- api 10y ago
  Keurig is huge. It's a money machine. Why not spin that into another market? Maybe you'll land an easy flip: build it, prove it, and get acquired by the company behind Keurig or some other food product/service mega-corp. Cha-ching. This is reasoning by analogy rather than from first principles. Most people reason mostly by analogy and so therefore most investors reason mostly by analogy. Reasoning by analogy is why these kinds of bad "X but for Y" or "like X but Y" ideas get funded. They look like other successful ideas by simple pattern recognition. Add in a team with good credentials (secondary indicators) and a founder who sends solid alpha-primate signals (matters little unless sales are in-person) and what's not to like? To see why "Keurig for Juice" is a bad idea, we have to look at it from a first principles point of view. Fruit is perishable, and the taste of juice is highly dependent upon the freshness of the source fruit. As a result a juicing machine is really only going to be competitive with pre-packaged juice if the fruit is fresh. Fresh fruit juicers already exist, but they're not super-profitable since there is no recurring revenue angle. You can buy fresh fruit at any supermarket or farmers' market, and indeed doing so is likely going to give you fresher fruit than getting it from a specialized vendor. Fruit is also heavy. It's mostly water. That means shipping it around is expensive, especially when you factor in the need to preserve it at a low temperature (dry ice? thermoses?). That means competing with supermarkets and other experts in food shipping (or local farmers, etc.) is going to be very hard and shipping costs will eat your margins. All that means a Keurig for Juice has to be expensive. That means it has to be a premium product. Premium customers for a juice machine are only going to be interested in it if the juice it produces is very good and very fresh. That in turn amplifies all the problems above in a vicious cycle. In the end you're left with the very top of the premium market, and that market is more likely to buy their premium juice from a restaurant or, at the very top, have their in-home maid/nanny/whatever make them fresh squeezed juice from locally grown fruit. Coffee is different. Coffee is somewhat perishable but nowhere near as perishable as fruit, and it's far easier to package and preserve. It preserves for a long time at room temperature. It can sit on store shelves. It's also small and light and easy to ship. Keurig works because it makes sense from first principles. It's easy to package coffee in a cartridge and it's fairly easy to build a machine to brew it. The result is something more convenient than drip coffee and customers like that, and the cost of doing this is not prohibitively high for either supplier or customer. Fruit fails for the aforementioned reasons. Keurig for fruit makes no sense. Reason from first principles, not by analogy. Reason from first principles, not by analogy. Reason from first principles, not by analogy.
jgrahamc 10y ago
Because people enjoy stories about Silicon Valley hubris.
tdb7893 10y ago
Because it's seen as a proxy for the perceived out-of-touchness of Silicon Valley in general
sogen 10y ago
1.- The company received tons of funding. 2.- Investors were shocked the machine is not needed.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  so...relevant to investors and the few thousand (is it even that many?) owners of the product. International press coverage in BBC, Bloomberg, Forbes, TechCrunch, etc. seems vastly out of proportion of the importance of this story. the media response to this has been so rapid and so extreme that it makes me think conspiratorial thoughts, like someone has a vested interest in their demise and pulled some levers to create this media shitstorm.
  - sogen 10y ago
    Investors put $120 million in the product.
no1youknowz 10y ago
From a marketing perspective, good press or bad press. It's still press and it gets the word out. For every X group of people who don't want this, there will be Y person who will think it's a good idea and they will purchase the product. Look at the segway, still made the owner millions.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  Also sent him flying over a cliff to his death, so kind of a mixed bag.
  - tlrobinson 10y ago
    Huh? Dean Kamen is still alive.
    - dingaling 10y ago
      Jimi Heselden was the one that fell over the cliff; he had become owner of the Segway company after buying-out the founders. Segway was later sold to a Chinese company which itself was subject of a patent action by Segway. Good manoeuvre.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
elliotpage 10y ago
The product is expensive, extraneous, bad at what it does, easily circumvented, and the reaction to it by the CEO and investors is hilarious and a very good look at the absurdities of the current app-and-hardware world we have found ourselves in. People love a good laugh, and some Schadenfreude helps. Whats not to like?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jacobsenscott 10y ago
I think this is the standard "look - something absurd and stupid!" news story that goes viral. All the news outlets are milking it for clicks. I'm pretty sure today is the last day you'll hear about it.
ricardo_ramirez 10y ago
If you want to go all conspiracy theory on this, you can go with the "There is no such thing as bad publicity", and this amount of coverage ironically could even get some sales on the product, or some attention on the company at the very least, even if it's in the context of mocking it. Had it not be for the fact apparently you need the machine for the privilege of buying juice pouches, I would even say some people might see the value of buying the pre-packaged juice and then squeezing it themselves, feeling good for having saved "400 dollars on an expensive machine", while still causing some revenue impact for the company that now has pivoted to selling only the juice pouches, maybe even as a subscription service.
- wuschel 10y ago
  "There such thing as bad publicity" - this is what I learned, too. Compared to this company, is so sad to see other projects not taking off because they fail at the funding stage (for one of the many reasons they might not control).
bbctol 10y ago
Not a media conspiracy, just a media echo chamber/feeding frenzy. Now that the story's picked up, everyone wants to cover it to get attention. It picked up originally because it's funny and because people like making fun of dumb silicon valley excesses.
mojowo11 10y ago
It's basically because this reads like a real-life plot arc from "Silicon Valley," a parody of Silicon Valley. This company makes a $400-$700 machine that basically squeezes a Capri Sun pouch of fruit juice into a cup for you, and the company has raised $120M in venture capital, even though you could just squeeze their "proprietary juice pouches" with your hands (or, like, buy normal juice and pour it). Probably there's more to what the machine does, etc., but the story has legs because it's so absurd-sounding and reads like an indictment of how out of touch Silicon Valley actually is with what qualifies as a good idea.
chadgeidel 10y ago
This kind of behavior is well understood among techies. We all know about the "DRM printer ink" issues. I think most "average joes" don't really get it. DRM on juice packs is something they can wrap their brains around. I'm imagining this is the first time non-techies are encountering this in a way they understand.
untog 10y ago
A few reasons: - it's funny - it plays into popular conception that Silicon Valley is largely out of touch with the real world Not everything is a conspiracy (and Juicero really does not want this publicity)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lolc 10y ago
In a word: Glee. I still find it surprising they managed to attract 120M funding. Sometimes the thing itself is not noticeable but the circumstances of its existence are. And then it can teach us something about reality. Or the reality of other people. Apparently some people thought this would become as big as Nescafe. You don't need a machine to pour juice, you need one to brew coffee. So it seems investors let themselves be fooled to think that the juice would be "special".
portal_narlish 10y ago
This story is everywhere for the same reason it's a top story on HN. Startup scandals are entertaining and tech people love rubbernecking. Side note, Olivia Zaleski has made a name for herself with these kinds of stories. https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ASoef4w-oqQ/olivia-zaleski https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ASoef4w-oqQ/olivia-zaleski
misingnoglic 10y ago
It's because this juice machine was a hilarious idea to begin with, a $700 juice presser, and now that it's not even doing it's job, it's not hilarious.

cosmie 10y ago

Because that tiny company somehow roped in $120mm in funding. And after Bloomberg did a story on it, people realized how absurd it was.

api 10y ago
Keurig is huge. It's a money machine. Why not spin that into another market? Maybe you'll land an easy flip: build it, prove it, and get acquired by the company behind Keurig or some other food product/service mega-corp. Cha-ching. This is reasoning by analogy rather than from first principles. Most people reason mostly by analogy and so therefore most investors reason mostly by analogy. Reasoning by analogy is why these kinds of bad "X but for Y" or "like X but Y" ideas get funded. They look like other successful ideas by simple pattern recognition. Add in a team with good credentials (secondary indicators) and a founder who sends solid alpha-primate signals (matters little unless sales are in-person) and what's not to like? To see why "Keurig for Juice" is a bad idea, we have to look at it from a first principles point of view. Fruit is perishable, and the taste of juice is highly dependent upon the freshness of the source fruit. As a result a juicing machine is really only going to be competitive with pre-packaged juice if the fruit is fresh. Fresh fruit juicers already exist, but they're not super-profitable since there is no recurring revenue angle. You can buy fresh fruit at any supermarket or farmers' market, and indeed doing so is likely going to give you fresher fruit than getting it from a specialized vendor. Fruit is also heavy. It's mostly water. That means shipping it around is expensive, especially when you factor in the need to preserve it at a low temperature (dry ice? thermoses?). That means competing with supermarkets and other experts in food shipping (or local farmers, etc.) is going to be very hard and shipping costs will eat your margins. All that means a Keurig for Juice has to be expensive. That means it has to be a premium product. Premium customers for a juice machine are only going to be interested in it if the juice it produces is very good and very fresh. That in turn amplifies all the problems above in a vicious cycle. In the end you're left with the very top of the premium market, and that market is more likely to buy their premium juice from a restaurant or, at the very top, have their in-home maid/nanny/whatever make them fresh squeezed juice from locally grown fruit. Coffee is different. Coffee is somewhat perishable but nowhere near as perishable as fruit, and it's far easier to package and preserve. It preserves for a long time at room temperature. It can sit on store shelves. It's also small and light and easy to ship. Keurig works because it makes sense from first principles. It's easy to package coffee in a cartridge and it's fairly easy to build a machine to brew it. The result is something more convenient than drip coffee and customers like that, and the cost of doing this is not prohibitively high for either supplier or customer. Fruit fails for the aforementioned reasons. Keurig for fruit makes no sense. Reason from first principles, not by analogy. Reason from first principles, not by analogy. Reason from first principles, not by analogy.

jgrahamc 10y ago

Because people enjoy stories about Silicon Valley hubris.

tdb7893 10y ago

Because it's seen as a proxy for the perceived out-of-touchness of Silicon Valley in general

sogen 10y ago

1.- The company received tons of funding. 2.- Investors were shocked the machine is not needed.

metaphorm 10y ago
so...relevant to investors and the few thousand (is it even that many?) owners of the product. International press coverage in BBC, Bloomberg, Forbes, TechCrunch, etc. seems vastly out of proportion of the importance of this story. the media response to this has been so rapid and so extreme that it makes me think conspiratorial thoughts, like someone has a vested interest in their demise and pulled some levers to create this media shitstorm.
- sogen 10y ago
  Investors put $120 million in the product.

no1youknowz 10y ago

From a marketing perspective, good press or bad press. It's still press and it gets the word out. For every X group of people who don't want this, there will be Y person who will think it's a good idea and they will purchase the product. Look at the segway, still made the owner millions.

emodendroket 10y ago
Also sent him flying over a cliff to his death, so kind of a mixed bag.
- tlrobinson 10y ago
  Huh? Dean Kamen is still alive.
  - dingaling 10y ago
    Jimi Heselden was the one that fell over the cliff; he had become owner of the Segway company after buying-out the founders. Segway was later sold to a Chinese company which itself was subject of a patent action by Segway. Good manoeuvre.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

elliotpage 10y ago

The product is expensive, extraneous, bad at what it does, easily circumvented, and the reaction to it by the CEO and investors is hilarious and a very good look at the absurdities of the current app-and-hardware world we have found ourselves in. People love a good laugh, and some Schadenfreude helps. Whats not to like?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jacobsenscott 10y ago

I think this is the standard "look - something absurd and stupid!" news story that goes viral. All the news outlets are milking it for clicks. I'm pretty sure today is the last day you'll hear about it.

ricardo_ramirez 10y ago

If you want to go all conspiracy theory on this, you can go with the "There is no such thing as bad publicity", and this amount of coverage ironically could even get some sales on the product, or some attention on the company at the very least, even if it's in the context of mocking it. Had it not be for the fact apparently you need the machine for the privilege of buying juice pouches, I would even say some people might see the value of buying the pre-packaged juice and then squeezing it themselves, feeling good for having saved "400 dollars on an expensive machine", while still causing some revenue impact for the company that now has pivoted to selling only the juice pouches, maybe even as a subscription service.

wuschel 10y ago
"There such thing as bad publicity" - this is what I learned, too. Compared to this company, is so sad to see other projects not taking off because they fail at the funding stage (for one of the many reasons they might not control).

bbctol 10y ago

Not a media conspiracy, just a media echo chamber/feeding frenzy. Now that the story's picked up, everyone wants to cover it to get attention. It picked up originally because it's funny and because people like making fun of dumb silicon valley excesses.

mojowo11 10y ago

It's basically because this reads like a real-life plot arc from "Silicon Valley," a parody of Silicon Valley. This company makes a $400-$700 machine that basically squeezes a Capri Sun pouch of fruit juice into a cup for you, and the company has raised $120M in venture capital, even though you could just squeeze their "proprietary juice pouches" with your hands (or, like, buy normal juice and pour it). Probably there's more to what the machine does, etc., but the story has legs because it's so absurd-sounding and reads like an indictment of how out of touch Silicon Valley actually is with what qualifies as a good idea.

chadgeidel 10y ago

This kind of behavior is well understood among techies. We all know about the "DRM printer ink" issues. I think most "average joes" don't really get it. DRM on juice packs is something they can wrap their brains around. I'm imagining this is the first time non-techies are encountering this in a way they understand.

untog 10y ago

A few reasons: - it's funny - it plays into popular conception that Silicon Valley is largely out of touch with the real world Not everything is a conspiracy (and Juicero really does not want this publicity)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

lolc 10y ago

In a word: Glee. I still find it surprising they managed to attract 120M funding. Sometimes the thing itself is not noticeable but the circumstances of its existence are. And then it can teach us something about reality. Or the reality of other people. Apparently some people thought this would become as big as Nescafe. You don't need a machine to pour juice, you need one to brew coffee. So it seems investors let themselves be fooled to think that the juice would be "special".

portal_narlish 10y ago

This story is everywhere for the same reason it's a top story on HN. Startup scandals are entertaining and tech people love rubbernecking. Side note, Olivia Zaleski has made a name for herself with these kinds of stories. https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ASoef4w-oqQ/olivia-zaleski https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ASoef4w-oqQ/olivia-zaleski

misingnoglic 10y ago

It's because this juice machine was a hilarious idea to begin with, a $700 juice presser, and now that it's not even doing it's job, it's not hilarious.