5 ms·

>STEM just does not pay over the long term. Whaa? What's your definition of pay? Anyway, IMO no prodding needed - expose the child to a wide variety of things,

>STEM just does not pay over the long term. Whaa? What's your definition of pay? Anyway, IMO no prodding needed - expose the child to a wide variety of things, and then help them find and nurture their passion.

madengr 9y ago
$100k - $200k long term (ages 30 - 67). STEM has initial high pay, but tops out by middle age. Late middle age, or 55+, and you are a target for elimination. My coworkers daughter and her husband are both accountants. In their mid 30's they are doing much better than any STEM majors. They will both be firm partners by 40. +200k salaries for two people over 27 years (not that they'd work to 67 anyway). I know of a mechanical engineer who went into finance. Not a quant, or even in NY. Just a manager for VISA. Her bonus is larger than my salary, and so is her salary. STEM, well really TE, need to bank that initial high salary for, often forced, early retirement. SM majors, you are just fucked.
- sanswork 9y ago
  Most accountants will never make partner. You are taking two exceptions and comparing them to the whole population. You should be comparing them to people who become CTOs. Besides that most people will never even make half of your lower end salary during their whole career.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    This very true. Women or Men, most people I know who go into non-STEM fields sooner or later have to negotiate with the fact there is nothing special going to happen in their lives forever. Here in India some people even believe its rather better to be a plumber or an electrician than do non-STEM degrees. Former helps you develop some skills. Compared to getting a degree in commerce and finding your whole education could be replaced by spread sheet macros.
    - douche 9y ago
      > Here in India some people even believe its rather better to be a plumber or an electrician than do non-STEM degrees That's the advice I would give most people in the United States as well. Plumbers and electricians can make bank, and it is something almost anyone can be trained to do well. Far better than trying to go to college, and either dropping out after a few semesters, or graduating with a useless degree - either way amassing many thousands of dollars of debt.
  - madengr 9y ago
    Well I suppose STEM is now a path to the middle class. Everything else is working poor. STEM used to be upper middle class. A dude driving a forklift was middle class. My advice (not that anyone asked) for STEM graduates: 1) Immediately max 401k contribution. Hopefully you'll get a employer match, but none is common these days. Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55, though more is better. 2) 15 year mortgage on a house. So buying a house in your 30's you'll own it by late 40's 3) Don't have kids until 30's. Tech pays well (initially), but require along hours. Be prepared to do nothing but work in your 20's 4) $80k educational savings for each kid. As they will need that by your late 40's or early 50's. That should minimally pay for 4 year degree at State U, and kept them from being saddled with debt upon graduation. Remember 55 is elderly. So by early 50's you want no mortgage, no education funding requirements, home ownership, and at least $1M in retirement savings. So when you are targeted for elimination, at least you can join the working poor; i.e. $30k/year household income (401k interest only) and no medical benefits. Ideally you'd have $2M in savings. That will get you to $60k/year so you can afford health insurance and cruise it out till medicare at 63. If you have any sort of medical needs at that age, with no health insurance, you are truly fucked, as heart/brain surgery is $300k minimum. Though I believe their are laws to prevent debt collection from retirement savings.
    - nommm-nommm 9y ago
      What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" "Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55" is totally not just "middle class." by my definition its "rich as fuck." and I'm saying that as someone who grew up poor and is now "rich as fuck." We can save ~70% of our take home salary and have enough spending cash to, literary, do whatever the fuck we want without ever worrying about the cost. > Everything else is working poor. "Yeah, you're poor if you aren't a millionaire by your 50s" is so silly I would believe it to be satire in a different context. >15 year mortgage on a house. I could have gotten a 15 year mortgage, strongly considered it, but I went with 30 because the interest rate was absurdly low so I believe I'd make better return investing that money rather than putting it towards my house. It's a risk/tradeoff I was willing to take. Everyone's situation is different. If you absolutely require a 30 year mortgage on your home to make payments and don't have a good down payment or savings, you probably can't really afford it though. >Don't have kids until 30's There's both pros and cons to having kids younger vs older. It's an individual choice if and when to have children. > Tech pays well (initially), but require along hours. Be prepared to do nothing but work in your 20's That's silly, it certainly doesn't have to require long hours. I don't work long hours and I certainly didn't in my 20s either. In my 20s I worked less with more flexible hours than most of my peers. >$80k educational savings for each kid Oh, God, no!! Paying my own way through school is what made me make good choices. If my parents gave me $80K towards school I would have never taken it seriously nor understood the value of $80k. >Remember 55 is elderly. No, its not. Again, all this stuff about being fired at 55, it's a Silicon Valley startup culture nonsense. >home ownership Is certainly not for everyone!!
- ralfd 9y ago
  The median wage in the US is $39k for full time workers. You are speaking about people at the top or people who lucked out.
- nommm-nommm 9y ago
  I don't mean to be rude when I say this but you are very out of touch with reality and what's a good income. $100k - $200k a year puts you, individually, over, at the very minimum, the 75th percentile income for American household. Also, your friends aren't even close to typical accountant salary, median pay $68,150 per year - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-and-auditors.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-a... Compare that to the typical software salary, median pay $102,280 per year - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > for American household I think OP is talking relative to other skilled vocations, i.e what a potential STEM student might do instead. If you have the opportunity to choose STEM, you are already at a certain level of opportunity. > median pay $68,150 per year How do you compare medians? What if there are more young software developers than young accountants?

madengr 9y ago

$100k - $200k long term (ages 30 - 67). STEM has initial high pay, but tops out by middle age. Late middle age, or 55+, and you are a target for elimination. My coworkers daughter and her husband are both accountants. In their mid 30's they are doing much better than any STEM majors. They will both be firm partners by 40. +200k salaries for two people over 27 years (not that they'd work to 67 anyway). I know of a mechanical engineer who went into finance. Not a quant, or even in NY. Just a manager for VISA. Her bonus is larger than my salary, and so is her salary. STEM, well really TE, need to bank that initial high salary for, often forced, early retirement. SM majors, you are just fucked.

sanswork 9y ago
Most accountants will never make partner. You are taking two exceptions and comparing them to the whole population. You should be comparing them to people who become CTOs. Besides that most people will never even make half of your lower end salary during their whole career.
- kamaal 9y ago
  This very true. Women or Men, most people I know who go into non-STEM fields sooner or later have to negotiate with the fact there is nothing special going to happen in their lives forever. Here in India some people even believe its rather better to be a plumber or an electrician than do non-STEM degrees. Former helps you develop some skills. Compared to getting a degree in commerce and finding your whole education could be replaced by spread sheet macros.
  - douche 9y ago
    > Here in India some people even believe its rather better to be a plumber or an electrician than do non-STEM degrees That's the advice I would give most people in the United States as well. Plumbers and electricians can make bank, and it is something almost anyone can be trained to do well. Far better than trying to go to college, and either dropping out after a few semesters, or graduating with a useless degree - either way amassing many thousands of dollars of debt.
- madengr 9y ago
  Well I suppose STEM is now a path to the middle class. Everything else is working poor. STEM used to be upper middle class. A dude driving a forklift was middle class. My advice (not that anyone asked) for STEM graduates: 1) Immediately max 401k contribution. Hopefully you'll get a employer match, but none is common these days. Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55, though more is better. 2) 15 year mortgage on a house. So buying a house in your 30's you'll own it by late 40's 3) Don't have kids until 30's. Tech pays well (initially), but require along hours. Be prepared to do nothing but work in your 20's 4) $80k educational savings for each kid. As they will need that by your late 40's or early 50's. That should minimally pay for 4 year degree at State U, and kept them from being saddled with debt upon graduation. Remember 55 is elderly. So by early 50's you want no mortgage, no education funding requirements, home ownership, and at least $1M in retirement savings. So when you are targeted for elimination, at least you can join the working poor; i.e. $30k/year household income (401k interest only) and no medical benefits. Ideally you'd have $2M in savings. That will get you to $60k/year so you can afford health insurance and cruise it out till medicare at 63. If you have any sort of medical needs at that age, with no health insurance, you are truly fucked, as heart/brain surgery is $300k minimum. Though I believe their are laws to prevent debt collection from retirement savings.
  - nommm-nommm 9y ago
    What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" "Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55" is totally not just "middle class." by my definition its "rich as fuck." and I'm saying that as someone who grew up poor and is now "rich as fuck." We can save ~70% of our take home salary and have enough spending cash to, literary, do whatever the fuck we want without ever worrying about the cost. > Everything else is working poor. "Yeah, you're poor if you aren't a millionaire by your 50s" is so silly I would believe it to be satire in a different context. >15 year mortgage on a house. I could have gotten a 15 year mortgage, strongly considered it, but I went with 30 because the interest rate was absurdly low so I believe I'd make better return investing that money rather than putting it towards my house. It's a risk/tradeoff I was willing to take. Everyone's situation is different. If you absolutely require a 30 year mortgage on your home to make payments and don't have a good down payment or savings, you probably can't really afford it though. >Don't have kids until 30's There's both pros and cons to having kids younger vs older. It's an individual choice if and when to have children. > Tech pays well (initially), but require along hours. Be prepared to do nothing but work in your 20's That's silly, it certainly doesn't have to require long hours. I don't work long hours and I certainly didn't in my 20s either. In my 20s I worked less with more flexible hours than most of my peers. >$80k educational savings for each kid Oh, God, no!! Paying my own way through school is what made me make good choices. If my parents gave me $80K towards school I would have never taken it seriously nor understood the value of $80k. >Remember 55 is elderly. No, its not. Again, all this stuff about being fired at 55, it's a Silicon Valley startup culture nonsense. >home ownership Is certainly not for everyone!!
ralfd 9y ago
The median wage in the US is $39k for full time workers. You are speaking about people at the top or people who lucked out.
nommm-nommm 9y ago
I don't mean to be rude when I say this but you are very out of touch with reality and what's a good income. $100k - $200k a year puts you, individually, over, at the very minimum, the 75th percentile income for American household. Also, your friends aren't even close to typical accountant salary, median pay $68,150 per year - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-and-auditors.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-a... Compare that to the typical software salary, median pay $102,280 per year - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > for American household I think OP is talking relative to other skilled vocations, i.e what a potential STEM student might do instead. If you have the opportunity to choose STEM, you are already at a certain level of opportunity. > median pay $68,150 per year How do you compare medians? What if there are more young software developers than young accountants?