8 ms·

MBP-quality trackpads and MBP-equivalent battery life. I can't understand why battery life isn't higher on the list of "must haves" for people who want a nice l

by sacul 9y ago

MBP-quality trackpads and MBP-equivalent battery life. I can't understand why battery life isn't higher on the list of "must haves" for people who want a nice linux laptop.

themodelplumber 9y ago
Do you ever have to do any laptopping for more than 2-3 hours in a place where there is no opportunity to plug in to a power source? My experience simply says that's really unlikely for me, and my couch and desk at work are 99.999% of the use cases. So battery allows me to meet these vendors halfway.
- kazagistar 9y ago
  Airplanes?
  - bmuppireddy 9y ago
    A person who travels frequently doesnt need a *nix laptop.
    - lvh 9y ago
      It appears you're contradicting an ancestor's lived experience :) Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that sometimes, people who use Linux (let's call them technical) travel a lot? Is the idea of a programmer who flies around the world to present their work at conferences really so ridiculous? (There are lots of other archetypes, like consultants, SME owners that are still very technical themselves, et cetera.)
      - gh02t 9y ago
        I'm an engineer that travels a lot for conferences and I use Linux almost exclusively... I'd love a svelte laptop with long battery life.
        ashark 9y ago
        A lot of Apple's battery life success seems to be due to the software—both iOS and MacOS. Android's only just now starting to kind of catch up with iOS on power management, and MacOS doesn't beat other laptops because they use giant batteries or something. I'd expect it to take 7-8 figures of focused investment in the Linux kernel and probably some significant mountain-moving to get peripheral projects (windowing system, init maybe, various driver vendors) coordinated and going in the the right direction to improve Linux's power management much. Hell, even the Apple browser is more respectful of battery life than its competitors. Power draw seems to be considered carefully at every level at Apple, and it shows in their results.
      - auganov 9y ago
        Funny story: I was on a long-haul flight. The person next to me noticed all 3 of us were using linux and we had a laugh :)
    - IntelMiner 9y ago
      And why is that?
    - apetresc 9y ago
      I can't even tell what stereotype you're trying to riff on here...
- freehunter 9y ago
  Traveling folks often deal with this, which is why I'm seeing a lot more of us switch to iPad Pros or Surface Pros instead of MacBooks. Portability and battery life are often the only concerns when you're in airports and hotels and conference rooms and coffee shops all day. Airports and airplanes are getting better at putting power outlets in handy locations, but there still are not nearly enough to guarantee you'll be able to work. Nearly every time I travel I'm working on a PowerPoint or some kind of documentation for an hour or two in the airport, then two hours on the plane, finishing it up at a coffee shop when I meet up with my coworkers, then presenting it for several hours at the client. None of those places are guaranteed to have power available to me. Sure a lot of people have laptops that sit at their desk always plugged into an outlet, only running on battery when they pop into a meeting for an hour or two, but plenty more people actually need portable devices. That's the entire reason the MacBook Air was such a smash hit, you see them everywhere with both traveling businessmen and college kids, both of whom need something light and portable with amazing battery life. Both of whom are willing to forego an octo-core i7 and 32gb of RAM in exchange for 10 hours of battery life in a device that weighs less than 3 lbs. Luckily difference devices exist for the different use cases that different people have.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  > Do you ever have to do any laptopping for more than 2-3 hours in a place where there is no opportunity to plug in to a power source? Yes, almost literally every day. My typical schedule is to show up for standup at 9, then be at a diner by 9:30. I work from there until noon, then back to the office until 2 to charge my laptop. At 2 I leave and work from a hammock in a park or something similar. That's ~6 hours every day of working where there isn't a power outlet nearby.
0x27081990 9y ago
This. I've always been a Linux and OpenBSD user, but I'm buying a MBP 13" next week mostly for portability and battery life, planning to run macOS instead of Linux just because of this.
- andrepd 9y ago
  As an example, the Xiaomi Air 13 is smaller and lighter than an MBP 13, with an equivalent trackpad, albeit slightly smaller battery (8h web browsing), for ~750$. Also aluminium unibody but easily serviceable (even has a second SSD slot).
bo1024 9y ago
Completely agree, and would add another favorite feature of MBP - 16x10 aspect ratio rather than 16x9.
- DanCarvajal 9y ago
  16x10 is the ideal laptop screen ratio. I'm very disappointed in it's general lack of availability.
robotjosh 9y ago
Some laptops have a built in battery along with a swappable battery. The battery life people could get one of these and get enough spare batteries to smoke the mac several times over.
- adl 9y ago
  Yes, several thinkpads do that. I have a T440s with an extra battery and swapping the battery without turning it off is great. Linux will even tell you the charge for each battery (Ubuntu Gnome 17.04)
- azamatms 9y ago
  Except that you'd be required to reboot the OS every time you swap. Which is what a lot of developers would rather avoid. Maybe they could have a tiny low power battery that could last 5-10 mins to reboot-less battery swaps
  - soperj 9y ago
    Re-read the post. Built in battery plus swap-able battery.
xiaomai 9y ago
I've had that all-day battery for years on various Thinkpad X1 Carbon's that I've owned. Linux doesn't do as well as advertised but I can still go 6-8 hours of active use (it will last all day and all night if the screen is off (like when I forget to close it before I go to bed).
levesque 9y ago
I'd say these two aspects are equally split between software development and hardware design. Now I don't know how System76 fares on the software side, but are they really up to the challenge? I'll be watching closely, but am not expecting much.
maerF0x0 9y ago
For me battery only needs to be about 2-3 hours. Otherwise I am moving from plug in to plug in (I leave chargers in many places like work, office, living room). Long enough to take a short flight without plugins.
- sithadmin 9y ago
  I suspect that as more and more workplaces move to open-layout plans and have an increasingly mobile workforce, max unplugged work time is becoming more and more valuable as a feature.
  - maerF0x0 9y ago
    At previous jobs we were just very generous with the chargers. Everyone having a single charger connector (MBP) is super valuable . This is good because then you dont bring a charger with you, because you know each meeting room has one or more chargers. Each seat in the office has a charger etc. Companies sometimes say "Yeah but $90* X is too much" ... But it costs a lot to have people wiring/unwiring chargers all the time. 3 minutes at $1 a minute adds up to $90 really fast.
    - michel-slm 9y ago
      We do that at work. Things get complicated with the latest-generation MBP of course - now we have the old MagSafe charger, ThinkPad chargers, USB C chargers, as well as HDMI, DP, and USB-C Thunderbolt video connectors.
      - maerF0x0 9y ago
        Yeah, i dont think apple knew they had a good thing with one charger. Even the lower wattage chargers worked in the bigger units etc.
      - ashark 9y ago
        Our first few USBC MBP users in our office are having a ton of "fun" with that. Also the "which monitors do and don't work with this thing? Which adapter(s) do I need for this one again? Damnit that didn't work, lemme try this other one..." game. TONS of fun.
vladimir-y 9y ago
There are many laptops on the market that have MBP-equivalent battery life. Trackpad is another matter, but for example Thinkpad's have a better keyboard.
thaumasiotes 9y ago
> I can't understand why battery life isn't higher on the list of "must haves" for people who want a nice linux laptop. My laptop is plugged in almost 100% of the time. If it needed to be plugged in a full 100% of the time, that would be at most an extremely minor hit to usability. I need a laptop that I can move, not a laptop that I can use while it's being moved.
GlennS 9y ago
Interesting how many people here are asking for trackpad quality. I always use my laptops with a mouse plugged in, and disable the trackpad (and pointless touchscreen on my work computer) as one of the first things I do. I would love to have a laptop with no trackpad at all (or maybe just one of those tiny nubs), leaving more space for a better keyboard.
- i336_ 9y ago
  Well, I'm typing this on an X61 (the laptop type). Yeah, vintage :) It at least ships with a draft-n-capable Wi-Fi card, so you could use it for remote desktop? :P T9300 (2 @ 2.5GHz); 4GB; Intelgrated GM965; 2xMiniPCIe (1 for Wi-Fi); 1024x768 :( (For reference: I push mine WAY too hard. This is tab 406... I do use The Great Suspender, but, um. It does great (genuinely does hold up) with <15 tabs though, and the GM965 handles 1080p through mplayer and 720p in Chrome really nicely.)
tracker1 9y ago
The touchpad was the biggest reason my laptop purchase stayed with rMBP, the 16:10 screen is nice, and the non-funky keyboard layout helps too... Looked at the layout of one, and the right shift (the one I use most) is crossed with the arrow

by sacul 9y ago

MBP-quality trackpads and MBP-equivalent battery life. I can't understand why battery life isn't higher on the list of "must haves" for people who want a nice linux laptop.

themodelplumber 9y ago

Do you ever have to do any laptopping for more than 2-3 hours in a place where there is no opportunity to plug in to a power source? My experience simply says that's really unlikely for me, and my couch and desk at work are 99.999% of the use cases. So battery allows me to meet these vendors halfway.

kazagistar 9y ago
Airplanes?
- bmuppireddy 9y ago
  A person who travels frequently doesnt need a *nix laptop.
  - lvh 9y ago
    It appears you're contradicting an ancestor's lived experience :) Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that sometimes, people who use Linux (let's call them technical) travel a lot? Is the idea of a programmer who flies around the world to present their work at conferences really so ridiculous? (There are lots of other archetypes, like consultants, SME owners that are still very technical themselves, et cetera.)
    - gh02t 9y ago
      I'm an engineer that travels a lot for conferences and I use Linux almost exclusively... I'd love a svelte laptop with long battery life.
      - ashark 9y ago
        A lot of Apple's battery life success seems to be due to the software—both iOS and MacOS. Android's only just now starting to kind of catch up with iOS on power management, and MacOS doesn't beat other laptops because they use giant batteries or something. I'd expect it to take 7-8 figures of focused investment in the Linux kernel and probably some significant mountain-moving to get peripheral projects (windowing system, init maybe, various driver vendors) coordinated and going in the the right direction to improve Linux's power management much. Hell, even the Apple browser is more respectful of battery life than its competitors. Power draw seems to be considered carefully at every level at Apple, and it shows in their results.
    - auganov 9y ago
      Funny story: I was on a long-haul flight. The person next to me noticed all 3 of us were using linux and we had a laugh :)
  - IntelMiner 9y ago
    And why is that?
  - apetresc 9y ago
    I can't even tell what stereotype you're trying to riff on here...
freehunter 9y ago
Traveling folks often deal with this, which is why I'm seeing a lot more of us switch to iPad Pros or Surface Pros instead of MacBooks. Portability and battery life are often the only concerns when you're in airports and hotels and conference rooms and coffee shops all day. Airports and airplanes are getting better at putting power outlets in handy locations, but there still are not nearly enough to guarantee you'll be able to work. Nearly every time I travel I'm working on a PowerPoint or some kind of documentation for an hour or two in the airport, then two hours on the plane, finishing it up at a coffee shop when I meet up with my coworkers, then presenting it for several hours at the client. None of those places are guaranteed to have power available to me. Sure a lot of people have laptops that sit at their desk always plugged into an outlet, only running on battery when they pop into a meeting for an hour or two, but plenty more people actually need portable devices. That's the entire reason the MacBook Air was such a smash hit, you see them everywhere with both traveling businessmen and college kids, both of whom need something light and portable with amazing battery life. Both of whom are willing to forego an octo-core i7 and 32gb of RAM in exchange for 10 hours of battery life in a device that weighs less than 3 lbs. Luckily difference devices exist for the different use cases that different people have.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
> Do you ever have to do any laptopping for more than 2-3 hours in a place where there is no opportunity to plug in to a power source? Yes, almost literally every day. My typical schedule is to show up for standup at 9, then be at a diner by 9:30. I work from there until noon, then back to the office until 2 to charge my laptop. At 2 I leave and work from a hammock in a park or something similar. That's ~6 hours every day of working where there isn't a power outlet nearby.

0x27081990 9y ago

This. I've always been a Linux and OpenBSD user, but I'm buying a MBP 13" next week mostly for portability and battery life, planning to run macOS instead of Linux just because of this.

andrepd 9y ago
As an example, the Xiaomi Air 13 is smaller and lighter than an MBP 13, with an equivalent trackpad, albeit slightly smaller battery (8h web browsing), for ~750$. Also aluminium unibody but easily serviceable (even has a second SSD slot).

bo1024 9y ago

Completely agree, and would add another favorite feature of MBP - 16x10 aspect ratio rather than 16x9.

DanCarvajal 9y ago
16x10 is the ideal laptop screen ratio. I'm very disappointed in it's general lack of availability.

robotjosh 9y ago

Some laptops have a built in battery along with a swappable battery. The battery life people could get one of these and get enough spare batteries to smoke the mac several times over.

adl 9y ago
Yes, several thinkpads do that. I have a T440s with an extra battery and swapping the battery without turning it off is great. Linux will even tell you the charge for each battery (Ubuntu Gnome 17.04)
azamatms 9y ago
Except that you'd be required to reboot the OS every time you swap. Which is what a lot of developers would rather avoid. Maybe they could have a tiny low power battery that could last 5-10 mins to reboot-less battery swaps
- soperj 9y ago
  Re-read the post. Built in battery plus swap-able battery.

xiaomai 9y ago

I've had that all-day battery for years on various Thinkpad X1 Carbon's that I've owned. Linux doesn't do as well as advertised but I can still go 6-8 hours of active use (it will last all day and all night if the screen is off (like when I forget to close it before I go to bed).

levesque 9y ago

I'd say these two aspects are equally split between software development and hardware design. Now I don't know how System76 fares on the software side, but are they really up to the challenge? I'll be watching closely, but am not expecting much.

maerF0x0 9y ago

For me battery only needs to be about 2-3 hours. Otherwise I am moving from plug in to plug in (I leave chargers in many places like work, office, living room). Long enough to take a short flight without plugins.

sithadmin 9y ago
I suspect that as more and more workplaces move to open-layout plans and have an increasingly mobile workforce, max unplugged work time is becoming more and more valuable as a feature.
- maerF0x0 9y ago
  At previous jobs we were just very generous with the chargers. Everyone having a single charger connector (MBP) is super valuable . This is good because then you dont bring a charger with you, because you know each meeting room has one or more chargers. Each seat in the office has a charger etc. Companies sometimes say "Yeah but $90* X is too much" ... But it costs a lot to have people wiring/unwiring chargers all the time. 3 minutes at $1 a minute adds up to $90 really fast.
  - michel-slm 9y ago
    We do that at work. Things get complicated with the latest-generation MBP of course - now we have the old MagSafe charger, ThinkPad chargers, USB C chargers, as well as HDMI, DP, and USB-C Thunderbolt video connectors.
    - maerF0x0 9y ago
      Yeah, i dont think apple knew they had a good thing with one charger. Even the lower wattage chargers worked in the bigger units etc.
    - ashark 9y ago
      Our first few USBC MBP users in our office are having a ton of "fun" with that. Also the "which monitors do and don't work with this thing? Which adapter(s) do I need for this one again? Damnit that didn't work, lemme try this other one..." game. TONS of fun.

vladimir-y 9y ago

There are many laptops on the market that have MBP-equivalent battery life. Trackpad is another matter, but for example Thinkpad's have a better keyboard.

thaumasiotes 9y ago

> I can't understand why battery life isn't higher on the list of "must haves" for people who want a nice linux laptop. My laptop is plugged in almost 100% of the time. If it needed to be plugged in a full 100% of the time, that would be at most an extremely minor hit to usability. I need a laptop that I can move, not a laptop that I can use while it's being moved.

GlennS 9y ago

Interesting how many people here are asking for trackpad quality. I always use my laptops with a mouse plugged in, and disable the trackpad (and pointless touchscreen on my work computer) as one of the first things I do. I would love to have a laptop with no trackpad at all (or maybe just one of those tiny nubs), leaving more space for a better keyboard.

i336_ 9y ago
Well, I'm typing this on an X61 (the laptop type). Yeah, vintage :) It at least ships with a draft-n-capable Wi-Fi card, so you could use it for remote desktop? :P T9300 (2 @ 2.5GHz); 4GB; Intelgrated GM965; 2xMiniPCIe (1 for Wi-Fi); 1024x768 :( (For reference: I push mine WAY too hard. This is tab 406... I do use The Great Suspender, but, um. It does great (genuinely does hold up) with <15 tabs though, and the GM965 handles 1080p through mplayer and 720p in Chrome really nicely.)

tracker1 9y ago

The touchpad was the biggest reason my laptop purchase stayed with rMBP, the 16:10 screen is nice, and the non-funky keyboard layout helps too... Looked at the layout of one, and the right shift (the one I use most) is crossed with the arrow