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I don't see what makes workers born in America more important than workers born in any other country. Everybody should get the same chances.
by static_noise 9y ago
I don't see what makes workers born in America more important than workers born in any other country. Everybody should get the same chances.
- ekianjo 9y agoIf the world was a perfect place, sure. But it's not, and there's borders, immigration rules, and nationalism/patriotism on top of that.
- tvelichkov 9y agoSo, we are not trying to make the word, a better place, just to "make America great again"? Good luck with that.
- gragas 9y ago"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." I will always put my fellow Americans first.
- an_cap 9y agoWhy is the sentiment "I will always put my fellow whites first" bad but the sentiment you espouse not?
- YR372zm87 9y agoWhat's wrong with caring about your fellow taxpaying citizens who's vote might affect you more than someone that's possibly displacing them? If you really think everyone is so equal, then why is it okay to put your family first?
- an_cap 9y agoI don't think everyone is equal. I just think that everyone has certain negative rights that you must respect. For instance, you are not allowed to murder a stranger just because it accrues modest economic advantages to your family members.
- democracy 9y agoBut they do it in the business world all the time and everyone seems to be ok with it. Startup world's dream is to become a monopoly which means some miserable people out there.
- an_cap 9y agoI don't have any problem with you caring more for your fellow citizens. I encourage you to do that. I just don't want you to prevent your other fellow citizens from hiring me if they want to because I will displace people you care about.
- invalid-access 9y ago"What's wrong with caring about your fellow taxpaying citizens who's vote might affect you more than someone that's possibly displacing them?" ? H1B holders pay as much tax as citizens do (more, in fact, given they cannot benefit off Social Security, but still have to contribute to it). AND they don't get to vote. What's the argument in this case?
- YR372zm87 9y agoThey (and their families) haven't been paying taxes into the community their entire working lives like the natives have. The argument is that the people who have been contributing to the society more and for longer should get to see some benefits from the system before someone who has contributed literally nothing to your community shows up. That's why out of state students pay way more for tuition than in-state students at public universities. Even if you have some wacky reason for disagreeing with this logic, then take the taxes out of it. What's wrong with caring about your fellow citizens who's vote might affect your more than someone that's possibly displacing them?
- invalid-access 9y agoUm, I guess thank you for defining my reasoning as wacky. Turns out, I agree with your logic, but want to point out that it doesn't lead to the conclusion that you support. 1. Do you like the fact that out-of-state/country students pay more for tuition (thus subsidizing the education of the good native people)? 2. If so, do you like the fact that H1B pay taxes (thus subsidizing Social Security for the good native people)? The H1B is term-limited to 6 years, and people need to leave the country if they no longer work (or pay taxes). So the do NOT benefit indefinitely at the expense of the community who have been long-term tax payers. With respect to tax, the H1B is totally a pay-to-pay (a little bit pay-extra-to-play, even) visa. [Edit: We already established that H1B holders can NOT vote. So they cannot affect your community of long-term tax-paying natives in that manner].
- chillwaves 9y agoThat is a truly poor application of logic. It's not about being white, it's about living in the same social and economic communities. You really do not understand why a person might care more about what happens to their literal neighbor than someone half way across the world? From where I am sitting, you are using race as a way to be deliberately inflammatory. Not a good look.
- an_cap 9y agoI can see how, in this example, using race doesn't really serve to clarify the issue. I definitely understand why a person might care more about their neighbor. In fact, I care more about my neighbors (or my family members). However, that doesn't relieve me of my duty to respect the negative rights of others. For instance, I'm not allowed to murder someone halfway across the world because it benefits my family members. Likewise, I am arguing that I am not allowed to prevent X from hiring Y because my daughter would like the job.
- YR372zm87 9y agoWe should make a better America before we should make the rest of the world better. Besides, ask people in the rest of the world... most of them don't really want our help and would rather just be left alone.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- taneq 9y agoCharity begins at home.
- matt_wulfeck 9y agoIt doesn't make sense in context for a local municipality or government. Surely they exist to serve their constituents, which support them with taxes. Likewise for a country, which exists to serve their constituents. It's not about being better or more important.
- gragas 9y agoThe thing is, Indians and Chinese are fleeing their countries because it's so much worse there. If life was better in their countries, they would stay. But it's not. So instead of trying to help their fellow citizens, they run away and make Americans pay the cost.
- rtpg 9y ago"pay the cost": People are coming to America to work for American companies, make American goods, pay American taxes. A job is not a handout, it's (supposed to be, at least) beneficial to both sides of the relationship.
- gragas 9y ago>"pay the cost": People are coming to America to work for American companies, make American goods, pay American taxes. The cost is the difference between an American getting a job and someone who has absolutely no relationship with America getting a job. I care about my fellow citizens. I want them to succeed.
- davidw 9y ago> absolutely no relationship with America getting a job Once they have a job, they, uh, have a relationship, don't they? At the very least with their new friends at the IRS.
- YR372zm87 9y agoAs an American, workers born in the USA are more important to me. I care more about my neighbor's employment status, safety, and happiness than the family down the street. I care more about the guy down the street than the family across town... etc etc etc... I care more about some family in some US state that I'll never visit than a family over in India. The closer they are to me, the more their success and problems will affect me either directly through interaction or indirectly through taxes or how they're likely to vote for something crazy in a future election out of desperation. Local people even on a national level should get better chances if for no other reason than they've been here hopefully contributing to our system longer and they should be first to get some benefit out of it.
- jordache 9y agobut these h1b holders live in your town, and possibly your next door neighbor. gotcha!
- virmundi 9y agoOnly because they are here by breaking the intent and possibly the letter of the law. If they are here because they have real skills, great. I care while they're here. If they are drones used to illegally displace workers, boot them out. The reason it's not an "everybody's equal" thing is that a person in another country has less of chance of directly contributing to the betterment of the US. A native US has a higher impact since they are in the ecosystem. So given the Bayesian odds, I'll back the native. Edited for grammar
- davidw 9y agoThose people worked really hard to be born in America, dammit!
- chillwaves 9y agoThat's not the point. The point is, what happens to other Americans has greater impact on me, as an American because I live and work in the same communities. What happens to someone in India will be of less concern.
- flukus 9y agoGiving everyone the same chance would lower the quality of life of Americans. Why would Americans want to lower their own quality of life?
- dang 9y agoPlease don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. This amounts to trolling, and it's not what HN is for. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14153827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14153827 and marked it off-topic.