9 ms·
Facebook: greater than 15% of employees are H1Bs
- nsnick 10y agoSounds like it is time for Facebook to buy some congressmen.
- trendia 10y agoBuying congressmen is expensive. Maybe instead, Facebook can just slowly take over the news industry and then control what people see.
- steveax 10y agoNaw, it's actually pretty cheap, with a great ROI http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-stocks-or-bonds-invest-in-a-lobbyist http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forge...
- patrickg_zill 10y agoLike THAT will ever happen. People would revolt and be disgusted with Facebook immediately! ( /sarc )
- rlanday 10y agoFacebook does have a PAC which many of its executives contribute to: https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?cycle=2016&strID=C00502906 https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?cycle=2016&strI...
- NotSammyHagar 10y agoI wish every one of these stories would talk about that there are at least a couple of different kinds of h1b's. Facebook mostly or only has employees doing real, original work. But companies like Tata just are hiring for basic, mostly non-creative IT work. The second category (I think) is much more likely to lead to displacement of native workers. It's at least much more questionable. But h1b's at Microsoft or Google of Facebook are doing real creative work. We need to somehow change H1B to account for this. You can see it reflected in the data, where the average pay of the worker indicates whether is the 'creative category where we would like to hire all we can', or whether its in the more it-like programmer. Maybe I should add a disclaimer that although I haven't worked at facebook, I worked at some of the other large comps similar to facebook and have seen this difference.
- kevin_thibedeau 10y agoThere is only one kind of H1B work: that which requires special skills that are hard to find in the domestic labor force. Any other use is a violation of the visa requirements and it is disgusting that the State department ignores it's own rules in issuing these visas for work that clearly isn't of such a rarefied nature that it requires special guest workers.
- NotSammyHagar 10y agoThere are a lot of companies that do manage to hire people in the non-expert category though, and that is what screws up the situation.
- FireBeyond 10y agoThere are lots of companies who do. But that's ignoring the elephant in the room, the "Big 3" Indian consulting firms who somehow manage to snag nearly 40% of the entire nation's allocation of visas.
- patrickg_zill 10y agoIf you think about it, it is a sophisticated form of rent-seeking - the Big 3 get the visas, so they are able to supply the workers, so they have to be the ones to get paid.
- pmorici 10y agoMaybe they consider being able to work for substantially below market wages a "special skill". I can do a lot of things across both hardware and software but the one thing I'm really bad at is working on someone else's problem for peanuts.
- jmspring 10y agoI worked at a startup where the company didn't hire the low skill H1Bs, but the engineering manager was hell bent on outsourcing things. It started logically with "support" type areas that should have been easy boiler plate. The firm failed at that (blew back on engineering, mostly me, to fix it). Despite the failures, he tried to push for more responsibility (core features) for the same company. I said no with facts in a meeting, he looked at the CTO, and despite said engineering manager being my boss, the CTO sided with me. Outsourcing can be done well strategically. A firm from the same country (but with specific skills, not a generalist shop) was able to deliver optimized assembly code for me over a holiday break. I saw it as a present. I think there are companies that do try to do the right thing around the visa situation. That said, there are individuals at small and large companies that try and push an agenda to either hire H1Bs or outsource ... every time I've encountered such individuals, it felt like they were getting their beaks wetted in the process.
- ronreiter 10y agoWhat people don't realize is that once the H1B program will be modified to take out companies like Tata and Infosys from the lottery, Facebook will have MORE H1B employees, not less.
- FT_intern 10y agoI have no problem with that really. There are thousands of H1B's that are much more talented than 95% of American software engineers and they tend to be at the unicorns and the well paying big companies like FB/Google
- gragas 10y agoThere are also thousands of Americans that are much more talented than 95% of H1Bs.
- rk06 10y agoThat will be all right. The point here is FB and microsoft are using the H1B law to hire creative workers. While Tata and infosys are abusing the law to hire cheap workers. So if FB and Microsoft hires more H1B, then it is better.
- sandworm101 10y agoRelevant test case for reforms: "The job categories covered under the new employer liaison service include civil and mechanical engineers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, construction millwrights and heavy equipment mechanics. Under the 24-month pilot program, those job categories will be placed on a "refusal to process" list within the temporary foreign worker program." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-bans-hiring-foreign-workers-for-29-high-skilled-jobs-1.4075684 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-bans-hiring-f... (Canadian provinces have some control over immigration, to the chagrin of American "states rights" proponents who can only dream of the possibilities.)
- delbel 10y agoThe h1b program is out of control. We've got Americans who need jobs. I've had a big corporate job where they had us train our h1b and then laid us off. I've also worked for H1B's in America who hired me through upwork. They would outsource their job to me, that's pretty messed up when you fully think that out.
- Tuxer 10y agoFB currently has more than 300 openings. If you're qualified, please apply :)
- matheweis 10y agoWent from being a pilot to an FB engineer eh?
- akhilcacharya 10y agoDon't know about particular circumstances here but I'd imagine more than a handful of FB engineers know how to fly.
- Tuxer 10y agoFB engineer for work, pilot (instrument/aerobatic rated) by hobby :)
- matheweis 10y agoNice! I'll be at your MPK campus for a bit in several weeks... and unrelated, looking into getting PPL w/seaplane rating - we should meet up :)
- Tuxer 10y agoSounds good :) Seaplane rating is a bitch to use unless you wanna buy one, I know of no club that lets you solo their seaplanes for insurance reasons. An old apple coworker used to own a Lake amphibian, looked awesome.
- static_noise 10y agoI don't see what makes workers born in America more important than workers born in any other country. Everybody should get the same chances.
- ekianjo 10y agoIf the world was a perfect place, sure. But it's not, and there's borders, immigration rules, and nationalism/patriotism on top of that.
- tvelichkov 10y agoSo, we are not trying to make the word, a better place, just to "make America great again"? Good luck with that.
- gragas 10y ago"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." I will always put my fellow Americans first.
- an_cap 10y agoWhy is the sentiment "I will always put my fellow whites first" bad but the sentiment you espouse not?
- YR372zm87 10y agoWhat's wrong with caring about your fellow taxpaying citizens who's vote might affect you more than someone that's possibly displacing them? If you really think everyone is so equal, then why is it okay to put your family first?
- an_cap 10y agoI don't think everyone is equal. I just think that everyone has certain negative rights that you must respect. For instance, you are not allowed to murder a stranger just because it accrues modest economic advantages to your family members.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ganfortran 10y agoWell, they are paying their employee good money, which is one way to justify the use of H1B, the really high skilled worker, at least in terms of market value. Companies like Tata and Infosys are the real problems here, not only for locals, but for other people who apply for H1B as well. Some actions are largely overdue.
- knucklesandwich 10y agoCool, seeing lots of garbage opinions in this thread. Either H1Bs are bad because they create greater competition with people who aren't American citizens, or if you got fired from a job that replaced you with someone on an H1B you must be a bad worker. Haven't seen a single comment in here acknowledging that our immigration policy exists solely to benefit the wealthy (the wealthiest immigrants, or the ones with the most marketable skills and the wealthiest employers who often choose to exploit their immigrant employees via the precarity of immigration status created by an H1B). It would be great if people started having the conversation that we can have a mutually beneficial policy if we expedite citizenship for foreign born workers and actually work to build labor power in our industry instead of adopting nativist rhetoric or attempting to justify the various ways in which workers in tech are marginalized.
- calvinbhai 10y agoThose abusing H1b visas are companies that are usually brought in to replace aging workforce. H-1b visa holders have very limited job portability, which lets the employer abuse the system. If the H1b employee had full work authorization similar to a green card holder (give a 6 year full work auth to every H1b holder, and his/her spouse), then there wont be a question of enslaved H-1b employees trying to grab whatever peanuts thrown by these abusive companies. H1b numbers can be very misleading, because a bigger number of high skilled immigrants (except Indians and Chinese) can skip the who H-1b hell and go directly to getting an EAD (full work authorization). Better way to solve this problem, is to remove the concept of H1b, have very stringent L1 visas (even these are abused a lot), and give instant green cards to anyone who secures a job in US after graduating from a US university.
- democracy 10y ago>> give instant green cards to anyone who secures a job in US after graduating from a US university. ...opens up so many opportunities for abuse!
- mcbruiser3 10y ago>> give instant green cards to anyone who secures a job in US after graduating from a US university. sure but PhDs and special skills only
- davidw 10y agoThese threads always have a great mix of: * Subtle racism. * Zero-sum thinking. * Specifically, the lump of labor fallacy. * People not realizing that code is about the easiest thing in the world to ship back and forth between different countries: if a company is hell-bent on being cheap, they'll outsource rather than bring someone in. * A stunning lack of perspective on the benefits that immigrants bring to the economy and culture. * A lack of historical perspective in a country founded by immigrants. There were 0 restrictions prior to 1860-something, and then it was something racist to keep the Chinese out. * General fuzziness in terms of economic thinking. "let's have an auction for the 10113 spots the government makes available!" - without thinking that 10113 is some magic number some bureaucrat made up with little to no relationship to the real world. This continues to be my go-to article as one of the better takes on immigration: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number-of-immigrants.html http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...
- bingomad123 10y ago> The lump of labor fallacy. This is counter intuitive to average Joe on street but it is super surprising that the learned members of HN who otherwise seem to take interest in startups etc. fail to see the basic economic principles at work. The only valid concern about immigration I see is about culture. Personally it is natural for people not to like people who are not like them. It is something we should overcome but still understandable. > General fuzziness in terms of economic thinking I am not sure how we can have a law that involves things like a "lottery"! US immigration laws violate some basic principles of law making => clarity/predictability/rewards law abiding people/learns from real world data. H1B/F1 by definition encourages lying. A student can not be truthful when applying for F1. If I say I intend to apply for H1B after F1 my F1 visa would be instantly rejected. Not to mention young people can not predict promise their future that well either.
- democracy 10y ago>> A lack of historical perspective in a country founded by immigrants. There were 0 restrictions prior to 1860-something, and then it was something racist to keep the Chinese out. I am wondering what does it have to do with the issue in 2017? >> A stunning lack of perspective on the benefits that immigrants bring to the economy and culture. There is also a stunning lack of perspective on the consequences of the ungovernable migration. (not US citizen)
- MR4D 10y agoThe salary tab seems to say that FB isn't having trouble finding programmers in the US - it's having trouble finding GREAT programmers, while Wipro, et al just want a cheap body. Huge difference. Nothing to see here, move along.
- jordache 10y agoI have worked with some truly facepalm level of stupid H1Bs. I am sure we can find the same level of stupid here in the U.S. For these scenarios, I would much prefer u.s. citizens.