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The intent of H1-B was to get talented immigrants for jobs for which we had a shortage of American labor. Instead it has become a tool for indentured labor of f

The intent of H1-B was to get talented immigrants for jobs for which we had a shortage of American labor. Instead it has become a tool for indentured labor of foreigners (especially Indians) to be used to suppress wages and exploit the foreign nationals. I have suffered because of this. I spent 6 years on H1 with no end in sight. It would take at least 20 years for Indians to get a Green Card. Till then, you have to do do insane amount of paperwork, deal with lot of uncertainty when we you are up for renewal and are in a limbo state. Most of my friends who are really smart and are in US, have resigned to their fate and given up on their entrepreneurial aspirations. If people think that companies like Facebook and Google are not exploiting people, they are mistaken. Even though the wages that they pay are much higher - H1 creates lack of job mobility, within that class of employees. I worked with someone really smart in an earlier startup in India. He spent 7 years in Microsoft because it seemed like he will get Green Card next year. I worked with someone senior at FWD.us and as per that person the intention of FWD.us is to get more H1 and not Green Cards. I have lived through this and hopefully out of this cycle. However the best from India aren't moving to US anymore. They now know about the uncertainties in their life because of H1 and are choosing to stay behind in India to build startups there. Big consultancy companies (TCS, Infosys, Cognizant etc) are abusing the system. I hope someone puts and end to this. Edited: formatting

davidf18 9y ago
> "The intent of H1-B was to get talented immigrants for jobs for which we had a shortage of American labor." Actually, the intent of H1-B is to fill jobs for which there are no Americans that have the skill set. A "shortage" simply means that they aren't offering high enough wages. Of the major tech firms (Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle, ...) only Google has a presence in NYC of any size even though NYC has far more software people than SV, SF, Seattle. If there really, truly was a shortage as they claim, they would have much larger offices in NYC. My understanding is that Gates in founding Microsoft in Seattle instead of SV did so precisely because he did not want to have to compete with SV firms for their tech labor which is another way of saying that Microsoft was in Seattle to maintained depressed tech wages.
- davidf18 9y ago
  If you're going to downvote by 2 points, please state what is inaccurate. Nothing I have stated is inaccurate and Americans agree with me.
  - chillacy 9y ago
    Maybe you could provide some proof for Microsoft being in Seattle because he "didn't want to compete with SV". But also as someone who works in Seattle (for a SV company), it's sort of insulting to imply that you have to be in SV. I get paid SV rates and don't pay any state income tax and have 4x cheaper housing, and the PNW is environmentally beautiful. But sorry I'm depressing your wage!
    - davidf18 9y ago
      Seattle has presumably changed a bit since Microsoft was founded there about 40 years ago. No Amazon, etc. No competition for labor from other tech firms. Gates located there because he did not want to compete for labor from other tech firms and it was much harder then for SV or other tech to poach Microsoft employees paying them market wages. Remember Gates is very much the businessman. Nobody is competing with my work, I am simply pointing out facts. HN readers, who generally deal with facts and data should appreciate that. Imported labor depresses wages.
      - chillacy 9y ago
        You're right, I do appreciate facts. But you still haven't provided a source for your claim. Unless you do so, it seems like you're producing a mixture of facts, opinions, and speculation, and calling them all facts.
        davidf18 9y ago
        See my comment above. I recall Gates or other reliable source stating this information and it made sense, because for me, Seattle is boring, boring.
employee8000 9y ago
My very good friend is Indian on H1B. In the last 10 years he has had 4 jobs and is making >200k/yr base. I know white people that are in the same job for 10+ years and can't get another job because their skills degraded. H1Bs have mobility and great wages, if you're good, just like citizens.
- timewarrior 9y ago
  I respectfully disagree with that. Maybe your friend wanted to do a startup where he owned the majority voting control in the startup. You can't do it on H1. Maybe he wanted to go meet his family but couldn't because his visa renewal was going on. Maybe he wanted a great opportunity, but the company wasn't setup to do H1 paperwork. H1 was expected to be a temporary state. If you are on H1 and not from India or China you can get a Green Card within 1 year. Even Chinese nationals can get it in 4-5 years. I switched 5 times in 6 years. Joined LinkedIn, left to build a startup (where I couldn't have majority stake), sold it to Dropbox, built and incubator at Verizon, doing another startup. All this while I was doing fine financially. However I felt really suffocated by the lack of freedom. Finally I am not on H1 and now I can own a controlling stake in my startup. If I wasn't on H1 earlier, I would have made different career choices all this while. H1 system is broken. Companies all over the spectrum is using it to exploit employees. It's time to fix it.
  - stocktech 9y ago
    You're making the point that being H1 is an inconvenience and to be honest, that's fine. It even sounds like your life was improved because you were H1. Would you have had these opportunities if you weren't?
    - timewarrior 9y ago
      Just because I was able to overcome, doesn't mean the system works fine. It took a lot of hard work and luck to get me to overcome this. So I would say that my life improved in-spite of H1. I was able to found a startup (and successfully exit) while on H1, which is extremely rare. Around 2010, the Green Card wait for Indians went from 3-5 years to 20+ years. Many people who moved before or around that time got invested here (bought a house, grew family, kids going to school) and in a way are stuck in a limbo. Many of them are smart and hard working people, who used to have dreams of building companies. But after a decade in limbo, all they talk about is the next H1 renewal and the uncertainties around that. Now, the best from India are instead choosing to stay in India and build startups there. While the current system is allowing staffing companies bring subpar talent which displaces good American jobs. So yes the H1B system is broken and it needs fixing. If I had stayed, I would have had different set of opportunities in India. Difficult to predict whether they would have been better or worse! And it is easy to say "that's fine" - when you are not living the life with constraints.
tn135 9y ago
> I have suffered because of this. I spent 6 years on H1 with no end in sight. Why did you not go back then ? For many Indians including myself all the racist h1b/GC policies of US government are much better than life back home. It is a win-win. >I worked with someone senior at FWD.us and as per that person the intention of FWD.us is to get more H1 and not Green Cards. Obviously companies focus on H1B and not GC as H1B serves their need. Asians ideally should form their own organisations and lobby with the government against this selective apartheid.

davidf18 9y ago

> "The intent of H1-B was to get talented immigrants for jobs for which we had a shortage of American labor." Actually, the intent of H1-B is to fill jobs for which there are no Americans that have the skill set. A "shortage" simply means that they aren't offering high enough wages. Of the major tech firms (Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle, ...) only Google has a presence in NYC of any size even though NYC has far more software people than SV, SF, Seattle. If there really, truly was a shortage as they claim, they would have much larger offices in NYC. My understanding is that Gates in founding Microsoft in Seattle instead of SV did so precisely because he did not want to have to compete with SV firms for their tech labor which is another way of saying that Microsoft was in Seattle to maintained depressed tech wages.

davidf18 9y ago
If you're going to downvote by 2 points, please state what is inaccurate. Nothing I have stated is inaccurate and Americans agree with me.
- chillacy 9y ago
  Maybe you could provide some proof for Microsoft being in Seattle because he "didn't want to compete with SV". But also as someone who works in Seattle (for a SV company), it's sort of insulting to imply that you have to be in SV. I get paid SV rates and don't pay any state income tax and have 4x cheaper housing, and the PNW is environmentally beautiful. But sorry I'm depressing your wage!
  - davidf18 9y ago
    Seattle has presumably changed a bit since Microsoft was founded there about 40 years ago. No Amazon, etc. No competition for labor from other tech firms. Gates located there because he did not want to compete for labor from other tech firms and it was much harder then for SV or other tech to poach Microsoft employees paying them market wages. Remember Gates is very much the businessman. Nobody is competing with my work, I am simply pointing out facts. HN readers, who generally deal with facts and data should appreciate that. Imported labor depresses wages.
    - chillacy 9y ago
      You're right, I do appreciate facts. But you still haven't provided a source for your claim. Unless you do so, it seems like you're producing a mixture of facts, opinions, and speculation, and calling them all facts.
      - davidf18 9y ago
        See my comment above. I recall Gates or other reliable source stating this information and it made sense, because for me, Seattle is boring, boring.

employee8000 9y ago

My very good friend is Indian on H1B. In the last 10 years he has had 4 jobs and is making >200k/yr base. I know white people that are in the same job for 10+ years and can't get another job because their skills degraded. H1Bs have mobility and great wages, if you're good, just like citizens.

timewarrior 9y ago
I respectfully disagree with that. Maybe your friend wanted to do a startup where he owned the majority voting control in the startup. You can't do it on H1. Maybe he wanted to go meet his family but couldn't because his visa renewal was going on. Maybe he wanted a great opportunity, but the company wasn't setup to do H1 paperwork. H1 was expected to be a temporary state. If you are on H1 and not from India or China you can get a Green Card within 1 year. Even Chinese nationals can get it in 4-5 years. I switched 5 times in 6 years. Joined LinkedIn, left to build a startup (where I couldn't have majority stake), sold it to Dropbox, built and incubator at Verizon, doing another startup. All this while I was doing fine financially. However I felt really suffocated by the lack of freedom. Finally I am not on H1 and now I can own a controlling stake in my startup. If I wasn't on H1 earlier, I would have made different career choices all this while. H1 system is broken. Companies all over the spectrum is using it to exploit employees. It's time to fix it.
- stocktech 9y ago
  You're making the point that being H1 is an inconvenience and to be honest, that's fine. It even sounds like your life was improved because you were H1. Would you have had these opportunities if you weren't?
  - timewarrior 9y ago
    Just because I was able to overcome, doesn't mean the system works fine. It took a lot of hard work and luck to get me to overcome this. So I would say that my life improved in-spite of H1. I was able to found a startup (and successfully exit) while on H1, which is extremely rare. Around 2010, the Green Card wait for Indians went from 3-5 years to 20+ years. Many people who moved before or around that time got invested here (bought a house, grew family, kids going to school) and in a way are stuck in a limbo. Many of them are smart and hard working people, who used to have dreams of building companies. But after a decade in limbo, all they talk about is the next H1 renewal and the uncertainties around that. Now, the best from India are instead choosing to stay in India and build startups there. While the current system is allowing staffing companies bring subpar talent which displaces good American jobs. So yes the H1B system is broken and it needs fixing. If I had stayed, I would have had different set of opportunities in India. Difficult to predict whether they would have been better or worse! And it is easy to say "that's fine" - when you are not living the life with constraints.

tn135 9y ago

> I have suffered because of this. I spent 6 years on H1 with no end in sight. Why did you not go back then ? For many Indians including myself all the racist h1b/GC policies of US government are much better than life back home. It is a win-win. >I worked with someone senior at FWD.us and as per that person the intention of FWD.us is to get more H1 and not Green Cards. Obviously companies focus on H1B and not GC as H1B serves their need. Asians ideally should form their own organisations and lobby with the government against this selective apartheid.