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I would say he was set on this path long before he shot down that Russian plane. Turnout was 86%. Vote manipulation is very likely, but it wasn't done that bla

I would say he was set on this path long before he shot down that Russian plane. Turnout was 86%. Vote manipulation is very likely, but it wasn't done that blatantly. More blatant was the suppression of the opposition during the campaign.

imartin2k 10y ago
It's a bit a similar scenario as with Russia: There might have been a moment in the past at which the West (or in the case of Turkey, specifically the EU) missed the opportunity to successfully pull the country towards a deep integration with the West/Europe. However, since no one can replay history, no one can be sure that this actually would have happened. Erdogan would still have been himself, with the same corrupt attitude and religiously fanatic mind.
- endisukaj 10y ago
  Erdogan and those closest to him are not religious fanatics. Religion is just a tool for them to gain and consolidate power.
  - imartin2k 10y ago
    I've read a fair share of articles about his rise and background and was left with the impression that he always has been rather religiously conservative. But maybe that's the wrong conclusion. On the other hand, how can you be sure? It is hard to know whether someone is a religious fanatic or just uses it as a tool.
  - tobltobs 10y ago
    Maybe not fanatic, but a bit weird? "One cannot be secular and a Muslim." "If the skies and the ground were to open against us. If floods and volcanoes were to burst, We will not turn from our mission. My reference is Islam." "Our minarets are our bayonets, Our domes are our helmets, Our mosques are our barracks."
- petre 10y ago
  A muslim country joining the EU is a pipe dream. The days of Ottoman rule are hardly forgotten in the Balkans. There is zero chance you'd have Turkey, countries from former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, not to mention Greece and Hungary in the same union. Just having Greece and Turkey in the EU is a laughable prospect.
  - emmfr 10y ago
    Having France and Germany in the EU was a laughable prospect in 1945. Having eastern European countries in the EU was a laughable prospect in 1989. Circumstances change.
    - petre 10y ago
      Well yes, that's why the EU was created. War with France was merely a distraction to create an united Germany: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14144819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14144819

imartin2k 10y ago

It's a bit a similar scenario as with Russia: There might have been a moment in the past at which the West (or in the case of Turkey, specifically the EU) missed the opportunity to successfully pull the country towards a deep integration with the West/Europe. However, since no one can replay history, no one can be sure that this actually would have happened. Erdogan would still have been himself, with the same corrupt attitude and religiously fanatic mind.

endisukaj 10y ago
Erdogan and those closest to him are not religious fanatics. Religion is just a tool for them to gain and consolidate power.
- imartin2k 10y ago
  I've read a fair share of articles about his rise and background and was left with the impression that he always has been rather religiously conservative. But maybe that's the wrong conclusion. On the other hand, how can you be sure? It is hard to know whether someone is a religious fanatic or just uses it as a tool.
- tobltobs 10y ago
  Maybe not fanatic, but a bit weird? "One cannot be secular and a Muslim." "If the skies and the ground were to open against us. If floods and volcanoes were to burst, We will not turn from our mission. My reference is Islam." "Our minarets are our bayonets, Our domes are our helmets, Our mosques are our barracks."
petre 10y ago
A muslim country joining the EU is a pipe dream. The days of Ottoman rule are hardly forgotten in the Balkans. There is zero chance you'd have Turkey, countries from former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, not to mention Greece and Hungary in the same union. Just having Greece and Turkey in the EU is a laughable prospect.
- emmfr 10y ago
  Having France and Germany in the EU was a laughable prospect in 1945. Having eastern European countries in the EU was a laughable prospect in 1989. Circumstances change.
  - petre 10y ago
    Well yes, that's why the EU was created. War with France was merely a distraction to create an united Germany: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14144819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14144819