5 ms·

Turkey referendum: Erdogan camp set to win after most votes counted

34 points by gpetukhov 10y ago

adamnemecek 10y ago
A de facto dictator wins the majority in a "democratic" election. News at 11.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  > With about 98% of ballots counted, "Yes" was on about 51.3% and "No" on about 48.7%. What majority? Typical "elections" in the Middle East have the dictator get 80-90% of votes. Examples include Egypt, Tunisia (pre-Arab Spring), Algeria, and Syria. The guy actually has quite a following in Turkey, so 51.3% voting "Yes" doesn't surprise me at all. I know that Erdogan is proposing a system that gives him virtually unlimited power, but that doesn't mean that the vote was rigged.
  - narag 10y ago
    It's not the outcome, but the referendum itself that's undemocratic. Removing usual safeguards by half the voters is just asking if democracy should be liquidated.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      Yes, my response was to point out to OP that the referendum itself is probably legitimate. And I think it's the responsibility of the voters to decide if that should happen, just like with (to a lesser extent) Brexit and the recent US presidential election.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
andoon 10y ago
This will not end well for Europe. With the pussy governments we have here and Erdogan with complete power over the faucet of refugees, we are at a high risk of becoming Erdogan's bitch. Either our governments do something, and fast, or the rise of fascism in Europe will only accelerate.
- WJW 10y ago
  Other possibility: Europe mostly goes on as usual, ignores Turkey.
  - andoon 10y ago
    Erdogan has full power over the islamisation of Europe. It remains to be seen if citizens of Europe will stand this for much longer. I think it's really frightening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/eu-turkey-refugee-deal-qa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/eu-turkey-refu...
    - tim333 10y ago
      EU population 743 million, Syria 22m. Even if Erdogan shipped every Syrian to Europe as a refugee it wouldn't make the EU very islamic.
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  Europe just tried to make a "pleasant deal" with Turkey about the refugees, giving Turkey a lot of money in exchange for them to close the border on their side. But if Erdogan becomes a nuisance Europe can always go through the unpleasant path, close the border from our side and not give Turkey a cent.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
coboloer 10y ago
Why the heck is this Hacker News?
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Because major world events effect everyone.
- bobstaples 10y ago
  Since this most certainly means that a large group of people will be deprived further from a fundamental right called freedom of press. A right that many people from this community hold dear.
cjslep 10y ago
Liberalism (in the classic democracy enlightenment-age concept, not the US partisan party sense) has flourished and waned over the years across the globe. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the next 50 years.
bonzini 10y ago
The Guardian says things are getting messy (not that anyone was expecting anything else, I might add). "There is still confusion about the number of votes counted in Turkey and any result, whether declared by the president or not, should be treated with caution. [...] the supreme election commission is reporting that only between 65-70% of votes have been counted, while Turkey’s official news agency Anadolu is reporting that 97-98% of votes are in."
harunurhan 10y ago
I think it's better to wait a little bit and see what happens, because there is still controversial things (such as unsealed votes being counted) going on which is usual after every election in Turkey, but who knows.
qaq 10y ago
Hope EU is happy about it's long term position toward Turkey.
- oblio 10y ago
  Are you sure that's the real problem in Turkey?
  - qaq 10y ago
    I am pretty sure, which obviously does not prove anything.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  "its long term"
  - qaq 10y ago
    sorry English is obviously not my native lang.
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  Its long term position of obviously not wanting that a country where more than half the population backs up a dictatorship backed up by fundamentalist Islam joining us and let those people have total unrestrained access across all our borders? Yup, we are really, really very happy that nobody was so mad as to let you in the EU... or else this that just happened (and in fact what has been happening the last decade backed by the majority of your population) would be a major danger to our existence. This way we always have the option to just close even more our borders until you deal with this insanity that is going on in Turkey and then when in some medium term future you get back to a democracy and show good will towards respecting everyone's civil rights and liberties we can then resume talks again.
  - qaq 10y ago
    I am not from Turkey :) You are already paying the price for head in the sand strategy and if some black swan event does not restrain Russia the global price for let's pretend it's someone else's problem will take the same tall it did last time.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
louithethrid 10y ago
I think, every democracy should have always a "versioning" system, where if 2/3s of the people vote for a return to a certain law revision (in direct vote, on the village center) - the goverment, the jurisdiction, military, finance and/or the totalitarian president are overruled and dispossable. Are there any democratic islamic countrys left?
MrQuincle 10y ago
Nationalism has influence on the type of tech developed: http://www.dailysabah.com/technology/2017/04/08/national-technology-move-to-transform-turkeys-technology-industry http://www.dailysabah.com/technology/2017/04/08/national-tec... Apart from that, foreign investments might also dwindle.
heifetz 10y ago
this is a bit outside looking in, but you get a sense of how easily people can be manipulated, or intimated in a democracy, without proper safeguards. Look at our election results!
ozgurozkan 10y ago
some ballouts are illegally counted as valid. %49 can't do any shit about it. Earning dictatorship in dictated way and showing that it was democratic. He just wants to save his life nothing more.
heifetz 10y ago
And regardless of how much good you think a leader actually does. Two big warnings signs of corruption and self enrichment. - staying in power for a very long time. Putin and Erdogan. - Self enrichment during the time in power. People should be automatically suspicious why these two want to stay in power for so long, as well as change the laws to give them more power while they're in office.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

34 points by gpetukhov 10y ago

adamnemecek 10y ago

A de facto dictator wins the majority in a "democratic" election. News at 11.

Cyph0n 10y ago
> With about 98% of ballots counted, "Yes" was on about 51.3% and "No" on about 48.7%. What majority? Typical "elections" in the Middle East have the dictator get 80-90% of votes. Examples include Egypt, Tunisia (pre-Arab Spring), Algeria, and Syria. The guy actually has quite a following in Turkey, so 51.3% voting "Yes" doesn't surprise me at all. I know that Erdogan is proposing a system that gives him virtually unlimited power, but that doesn't mean that the vote was rigged.
- narag 10y ago
  It's not the outcome, but the referendum itself that's undemocratic. Removing usual safeguards by half the voters is just asking if democracy should be liquidated.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    Yes, my response was to point out to OP that the referendum itself is probably legitimate. And I think it's the responsibility of the voters to decide if that should happen, just like with (to a lesser extent) Brexit and the recent US presidential election.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

andoon 10y ago

This will not end well for Europe. With the pussy governments we have here and Erdogan with complete power over the faucet of refugees, we are at a high risk of becoming Erdogan's bitch. Either our governments do something, and fast, or the rise of fascism in Europe will only accelerate.

WJW 10y ago
Other possibility: Europe mostly goes on as usual, ignores Turkey.
- andoon 10y ago
  Erdogan has full power over the islamisation of Europe. It remains to be seen if citizens of Europe will stand this for much longer. I think it's really frightening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/eu-turkey-refugee-deal-qa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/eu-turkey-refu...
  - tim333 10y ago
    EU population 743 million, Syria 22m. Even if Erdogan shipped every Syrian to Europe as a refugee it wouldn't make the EU very islamic.
jbmorgado 10y ago
Europe just tried to make a "pleasant deal" with Turkey about the refugees, giving Turkey a lot of money in exchange for them to close the border on their side. But if Erdogan becomes a nuisance Europe can always go through the unpleasant path, close the border from our side and not give Turkey a cent.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

coboloer 10y ago

Why the heck is this Hacker News?

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
Because major world events effect everyone.
bobstaples 10y ago
Since this most certainly means that a large group of people will be deprived further from a fundamental right called freedom of press. A right that many people from this community hold dear.

cjslep 10y ago

Liberalism (in the classic democracy enlightenment-age concept, not the US partisan party sense) has flourished and waned over the years across the globe. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the next 50 years.

bonzini 10y ago

The Guardian says things are getting messy (not that anyone was expecting anything else, I might add). "There is still confusion about the number of votes counted in Turkey and any result, whether declared by the president or not, should be treated with caution. [...] the supreme election commission is reporting that only between 65-70% of votes have been counted, while Turkey’s official news agency Anadolu is reporting that 97-98% of votes are in."

harunurhan 10y ago

I think it's better to wait a little bit and see what happens, because there is still controversial things (such as unsealed votes being counted) going on which is usual after every election in Turkey, but who knows.

qaq 10y ago

Hope EU is happy about it's long term position toward Turkey.

oblio 10y ago
Are you sure that's the real problem in Turkey?
- qaq 10y ago
  I am pretty sure, which obviously does not prove anything.
raverbashing 10y ago
"its long term"
- qaq 10y ago
  sorry English is obviously not my native lang.
jbmorgado 10y ago
Its long term position of obviously not wanting that a country where more than half the population backs up a dictatorship backed up by fundamentalist Islam joining us and let those people have total unrestrained access across all our borders? Yup, we are really, really very happy that nobody was so mad as to let you in the EU... or else this that just happened (and in fact what has been happening the last decade backed by the majority of your population) would be a major danger to our existence. This way we always have the option to just close even more our borders until you deal with this insanity that is going on in Turkey and then when in some medium term future you get back to a democracy and show good will towards respecting everyone's civil rights and liberties we can then resume talks again.
- qaq 10y ago
  I am not from Turkey :) You are already paying the price for head in the sand strategy and if some black swan event does not restrain Russia the global price for let's pretend it's someone else's problem will take the same tall it did last time.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

louithethrid 10y ago

I think, every democracy should have always a "versioning" system, where if 2/3s of the people vote for a return to a certain law revision (in direct vote, on the village center) - the goverment, the jurisdiction, military, finance and/or the totalitarian president are overruled and dispossable. Are there any democratic islamic countrys left?

MrQuincle 10y ago

Nationalism has influence on the type of tech developed: http://www.dailysabah.com/technology/2017/04/08/national-technology-move-to-transform-turkeys-technology-industry http://www.dailysabah.com/technology/2017/04/08/national-tec... Apart from that, foreign investments might also dwindle.

heifetz 10y ago

this is a bit outside looking in, but you get a sense of how easily people can be manipulated, or intimated in a democracy, without proper safeguards. Look at our election results!

ozgurozkan 10y ago

some ballouts are illegally counted as valid. %49 can't do any shit about it. Earning dictatorship in dictated way and showing that it was democratic. He just wants to save his life nothing more.

heifetz 10y ago

And regardless of how much good you think a leader actually does. Two big warnings signs of corruption and self enrichment. - staying in power for a very long time. Putin and Erdogan. - Self enrichment during the time in power. People should be automatically suspicious why these two want to stay in power for so long, as well as change the laws to give them more power while they're in office.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]