4 ms·

Yes, passengers don't know their rights but pilots and other administrators should. So United personal should have known they are in a legal grey area when remo

Yes, passengers don't know their rights but pilots and other administrators should. So United personal should have known they are in a legal grey area when removing a passenger who had boarded. I found the argument interesting that United should have lied and just invented a plane swap with a smaller body. Would have left the affected passengers is a weak position. There is so much wrong on all levels including the reaction of the CEO. This will be a case study for long time.

eridius 10y ago
> So United personal should have known they are in a legal grey area when removing a passenger who had boarded. From what I've read, they weren't in a grey area, they were doing something that was specifically illegal. A grey area is when it may or may not be illegal. This wasn't grey.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Any of those explain why force majeure would not apply? (I'm not implying it would, I'm curious to read an analysis that covers it)
  - eridius 10y ago
    I am not even remotely a lawyer or qualified to actually answer this, but my guess is the situation here didn't actually prevent United from fulfilling their contracts. They just chose to ignore their contracts because they thought they could get away with it.
  - The_Magistrate 10y ago
    Force majeure doesn't apply in this circumstance because it requires an external force or event that is unforeseeable. In this case, United didn't plan correctly for the transport of its 4 employees, something well within its capability to predict.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      There were massive storms in the few days prior to the incident. That could disrupt their planning.
    - notacoward 10y ago
      It's possible that United did plan correctly for the transport of those employees, but the employees themselves failed to follow the plan. How was it that the 3411 crew didn't even know the other crew was coming, until the very last minute? That's extremely unlikely if the other crew had been scheduled for 3411. It's more likely that they had originally been scheduled for another flight, missed it, and got to 3411 before word did (possibly because of poor communication between United and Republic). At the very best, they were later than they should have been. Why? And did they (or someone else) pressure the 3411 crew into doing what they did? United still screwed up in a lot of ways. So did Republic. So most of all did the aviation "police" - an organization that seems to consist largely of people thrown out of CPD for exactly the kind of misconduct visible on the video. But somewhere in there I think there's a fourth group that screwed up - the people whose sudden appearance triggered the whole mess.
kevin_b_er 10y ago
Their "rights" were replaced by a contract. You have no rights not enumerated in the contract of carriage. Rights are for government actions against you. In the United States, "rights" are discarded in favor of profit.

eridius 10y ago

> So United personal should have known they are in a legal grey area when removing a passenger who had boarded. From what I've read, they weren't in a grey area, they were doing something that was specifically illegal. A grey area is when it may or may not be illegal. This wasn't grey.

maxerickson 10y ago
Any of those explain why force majeure would not apply? (I'm not implying it would, I'm curious to read an analysis that covers it)
- eridius 10y ago
  I am not even remotely a lawyer or qualified to actually answer this, but my guess is the situation here didn't actually prevent United from fulfilling their contracts. They just chose to ignore their contracts because they thought they could get away with it.
- The_Magistrate 10y ago
  Force majeure doesn't apply in this circumstance because it requires an external force or event that is unforeseeable. In this case, United didn't plan correctly for the transport of its 4 employees, something well within its capability to predict.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    There were massive storms in the few days prior to the incident. That could disrupt their planning.
  - notacoward 10y ago
    It's possible that United did plan correctly for the transport of those employees, but the employees themselves failed to follow the plan. How was it that the 3411 crew didn't even know the other crew was coming, until the very last minute? That's extremely unlikely if the other crew had been scheduled for 3411. It's more likely that they had originally been scheduled for another flight, missed it, and got to 3411 before word did (possibly because of poor communication between United and Republic). At the very best, they were later than they should have been. Why? And did they (or someone else) pressure the 3411 crew into doing what they did? United still screwed up in a lot of ways. So did Republic. So most of all did the aviation "police" - an organization that seems to consist largely of people thrown out of CPD for exactly the kind of misconduct visible on the video. But somewhere in there I think there's a fourth group that screwed up - the people whose sudden appearance triggered the whole mess.

kevin_b_er 10y ago

Their "rights" were replaced by a contract. You have no rights not enumerated in the contract of carriage. Rights are for government actions against you. In the United States, "rights" are discarded in favor of profit.