6 ms·

If they had just increased the compensation passengers would have voluntarily given up their seat, everyone has their price. It didn't even need to be money, fr

by cube00 10y ago

If they had just increased the compensation passengers would have voluntarily given up their seat, everyone has their price. It didn't even need to be money, free flights, upgrades, it costs them next to nothing, especially when you consider this is still running in the media days later. Everyone hates to hear they overbook flights so you'd think when they get bitten United would take some of the savings made overbooking and spend it when it doesn't work out. At the end of the day I have a sneaking suspicion they'll still be ahead.

creaghpatr 10y ago
They should do a live auction on the plane, "I need 4 people to get off for $100...$200..." The competitiveness to "win" would save airlines money, make the "winners" feel even better about getting booted, and the "losers" don't actually lose anything. Probably more efficient too.
- valuearb 10y ago
  They got up to $800 and had no takers. Not sure why they didn't go higher, wondering if United doesn't allow employees to offer more compensation than that. Which is a problem if so.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - cm2187 10y ago
    If there is a lawsuit, I bet the settlement will be several order of magnitudes that. Particularly given that the guy was a physician.
    - scurvy 10y ago
      I doubt that United would be party to the lawsuit. It would be the airport cops who were called and roughed up the passenger.
      - bdavisx 10y ago
        They will be party to a lawsuit; and I'm guessing that they'll settle for some amount even if they would almost surely win. Their legal costs will be far more than $800 in any case.
        Dagwoodie 10y ago
        I doubt i'll ever book with United again. I had a flight with United the exact same day as this incident for business but I assure you they've already lost at least $800 from me in future flights as a result of this... bullshit.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - AlexCoventry 10y ago
    $800 in highly constrained flight vouchers. If it had been cash, it would have been a different story.
scosman 10y ago
Exactly! United overbooked as an optimization for profits, fine. However, they should have to pay up when it backfires. They gave up at $800 and just started forcing people off. If it's free market when I'm buying my ticket, it should be free market for United buying it back.
- cm2187 10y ago
  It's even worse than that. They were disembarking passengers to make room for their own staff who were not even planned on this trip.
  - valuearb 10y ago
    You understand their staff needed to be on this flight so that another plane full of passengers in Louisville wouldn't be delayed by not having a flight crew?
    - splawn 10y ago
      Oh well! Then sure!! Its time to start knocking customers out with your hired goons then./s
    - scosman 10y ago
      Everyone gets that. We're mad that United messed up the logistics of having staff in the right cities, and instead of treating their customers well they decided to use literal force to removed a customer with a confirmed seat who was already boarded. They had better alternatives: other customers had offered to leave for higher voucher value, I'm sure they could have paid someone already in Louisville 4x overtime. Instead they chose force and intimidation.
    - jehoshaphat 10y ago
      At least they weren't on the fucking plane already. It was a next morning flight, plenty of time to wave off the customers affected by United's own fuckup. This is why we need to re-regulate the airlines.
    - deleted 10y ago
askafriend 10y ago
Apparently someone on the plane offered to give up their seat for $1600 and the manager laughed in their face. Here's an account from someone who was actually on that plane: https://twitter.com/flsurfr/status/851556475013038080 https://twitter.com/flsurfr/status/851556475013038080
- wdr1 10y ago
  Note that's $1,600 in United credits that expire.
  - askafriend 10y ago
    That's how it always is right? It's always a voucher, not actual cash.
    - booi 10y ago
      You are legally entitled to cash compensation but you specifically have to ask for it. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/what-are-your-rights-if-you-get-bumped-from-a-flight/ http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/what-are-y...
      - askafriend 10y ago
        I had no idea, thanks for the information!
      - JamesBarney 10y ago
        Note: I believe this only applies to involuntary bumps, not voluntary ones(when you take the offer).
        chrismcb 10y ago
        If it is voluntary, then don't take the offer.
    - 10y ago
mavelikara 10y ago
I believe this is capped at a maximum of $1300. From [1]: If it’s more than two hours (four hours for international flights), or if the airline does not offer alternate flights, the compensation is 400 percent of your one-way fare, with a $1300 maximum. [1] http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-overbooking-airlines-owe-you-money-not-vouchers http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-o...
- rlanday 10y ago
  That's the cap on what they're legally required to offer. There's no law that says they can't exceed that to avoid a PR disaster.
- ben1040 10y ago
  That's a cap on what they're mandated by statute to give you as compensation. If for whatever reason your one way fare cost more than $325, then they don't have to pay you 4x that, just the cap. It doesn't mean they can't offer you more.
- Dan_Nguyen 10y ago
  Isn't that their legal obligation though? Certainly they could have offered more considering everyone was seated already, they had the crew for a future flight to transport on time, and everyone was initially unwilling. I think it's the timing that made things so difficult for them. If they asked me at the gate I'd be willing to take $400 plus flight comps. If it's when I'm already seated on the plane though (and reports said the man taken off was seated and buckled in already), my price goes way up. One would think that since the crew dropped the ball by pulling people this late they would offer more money to make those guys volunteer happily.
  - govg 10y ago
    The video that was circulating online showed all the passengers seated and buckled up, and the one guy being forcibly ousted from his seat. So yeah...
- bertil 10y ago
devy 10y ago
One of the reports I heard from interviews of some other passengers on that flight was that the United issues voucher in $50 denominations, or 16 $50 vouchers expires in a year and have lots of restrictions and fine prints. In other words, the offer was NOT worthy the face value and hassle of "re-accommodation".
- cr1895 10y ago
  https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights The airline may offer some alternative compensation (and of course one can accept it) but you have a right to a check. Of course the airline may try to hide this from you, or give you a hard time, but according to the Dept. of Transportation you're entitled to cash.
  - devy 10y ago
    I doubt many passengers who got bumped are aware of their legal rights - I didn't until you linked it out. Edit: I read it again, it read like cash compensation is not guaranteed though. > Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. In other words, if you have a frequent flyer number or enrolled in customer loyalty program, airlines can argue that you "do indeed" fly frequently, can't they?
    - cr1895 10y ago
      You're correct that many people are unaware of their rights. It's too bad; the airlines are obligated to inform bumped passengers of their rights but they don't always. I'm not sure I follow your edit. How often you fly has no bearing on your rights. The DOT page says: "Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference." If you were involuntarily bumped from a flight and certain other conditions are met, you are entitled to compensation (cash if you wish). It has nothing to do with frequent flier status.
Stasis5001 10y ago
Right. Airlines overbook because they make more money, and they are bound by laws like "If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum)." Thus, if expected revenue from overbooking > expected payouts, overbooking is worth it. HOWEVER, the legal compensation required scales really weirdly - $1350 maximum for anything over a two hour delay? Why would being delayed three hours be equivalent to being delayed something like 12-18 hours? I'm also not sure that maximum number has scaled with inflation. Anyway, some airlines already do auction off this. All airlines ask for volunteers because the compensation they offer is always less than the legal requirement for involuntary bumping. This is just a mess because United had already let the passengers on the plane, and weren't even offering that maximum, much less over it. If somebody here actually knows contract of carriage laws, does this sort of 'required compensation' thing hold after boarding happened?
hunta2097 10y ago
From what I have read, if you volunteer to leave they can pay you in flight vouchers. The worth of these is lessened by the fact they would give you $300 as 6x $50 vouchers which cannot be used at the same time. If they elect you to leave the flight they have to pay you in cold hard cash - 4x the ticket value or $1350 max (assuming you are delayed by more than 2 hours). Never volunteer to leave a flight until they state how you will be paid. In Europe the airlines are not allowed to pay you in vouchers.
zeroer 10y ago
One issue is that the $800 that keeps getting quoted as the offered compensation was not cash. It was $800 in vouchers for more United flights that have redemption restrictions and a 1-year time limit. I guess it's worth something to some people, but it's really easy to see why no one chomped at the bit. United might have gotten someone to volunteer if it was just $500 of real cash.

by cube00 10y ago

creaghpatr 10y ago

They should do a live auction on the plane, "I need 4 people to get off for $100...$200..." The competitiveness to "win" would save airlines money, make the "winners" feel even better about getting booted, and the "losers" don't actually lose anything. Probably more efficient too.

valuearb 10y ago
They got up to $800 and had no takers. Not sure why they didn't go higher, wondering if United doesn't allow employees to offer more compensation than that. Which is a problem if so.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cm2187 10y ago
  If there is a lawsuit, I bet the settlement will be several order of magnitudes that. Particularly given that the guy was a physician.
  - scurvy 10y ago
    I doubt that United would be party to the lawsuit. It would be the airport cops who were called and roughed up the passenger.
    - bdavisx 10y ago
      They will be party to a lawsuit; and I'm guessing that they'll settle for some amount even if they would almost surely win. Their legal costs will be far more than $800 in any case.
      - Dagwoodie 10y ago
        I doubt i'll ever book with United again. I had a flight with United the exact same day as this incident for business but I assure you they've already lost at least $800 from me in future flights as a result of this... bullshit.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- AlexCoventry 10y ago
  $800 in highly constrained flight vouchers. If it had been cash, it would have been a different story.

scosman 10y ago

Exactly! United overbooked as an optimization for profits, fine. However, they should have to pay up when it backfires. They gave up at $800 and just started forcing people off. If it's free market when I'm buying my ticket, it should be free market for United buying it back.

cm2187 10y ago
It's even worse than that. They were disembarking passengers to make room for their own staff who were not even planned on this trip.
- valuearb 10y ago
  You understand their staff needed to be on this flight so that another plane full of passengers in Louisville wouldn't be delayed by not having a flight crew?
  - splawn 10y ago
    Oh well! Then sure!! Its time to start knocking customers out with your hired goons then./s
  - scosman 10y ago
    Everyone gets that. We're mad that United messed up the logistics of having staff in the right cities, and instead of treating their customers well they decided to use literal force to removed a customer with a confirmed seat who was already boarded. They had better alternatives: other customers had offered to leave for higher voucher value, I'm sure they could have paid someone already in Louisville 4x overtime. Instead they chose force and intimidation.
  - jehoshaphat 10y ago
    At least they weren't on the fucking plane already. It was a next morning flight, plenty of time to wave off the customers affected by United's own fuckup. This is why we need to re-regulate the airlines.
  - deleted 10y ago

askafriend 10y ago

Apparently someone on the plane offered to give up their seat for $1600 and the manager laughed in their face. Here's an account from someone who was actually on that plane: https://twitter.com/flsurfr/status/851556475013038080 https://twitter.com/flsurfr/status/851556475013038080

wdr1 10y ago
Note that's $1,600 in United credits that expire.
- askafriend 10y ago
  That's how it always is right? It's always a voucher, not actual cash.
  - booi 10y ago
    You are legally entitled to cash compensation but you specifically have to ask for it. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/what-are-your-rights-if-you-get-bumped-from-a-flight/ http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/what-are-y...
    - askafriend 10y ago
      I had no idea, thanks for the information!
    - JamesBarney 10y ago
      Note: I believe this only applies to involuntary bumps, not voluntary ones(when you take the offer).
      - chrismcb 10y ago
        If it is voluntary, then don't take the offer.
  - 10y ago

mavelikara 10y ago

I believe this is capped at a maximum of $1300. From [1]: If it’s more than two hours (four hours for international flights), or if the airline does not offer alternate flights, the compensation is 400 percent of your one-way fare, with a $1300 maximum. [1] http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-overbooking-airlines-owe-you-money-not-vouchers http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-o...

rlanday 10y ago
That's the cap on what they're legally required to offer. There's no law that says they can't exceed that to avoid a PR disaster.
ben1040 10y ago
That's a cap on what they're mandated by statute to give you as compensation. If for whatever reason your one way fare cost more than $325, then they don't have to pay you 4x that, just the cap. It doesn't mean they can't offer you more.
Dan_Nguyen 10y ago
Isn't that their legal obligation though? Certainly they could have offered more considering everyone was seated already, they had the crew for a future flight to transport on time, and everyone was initially unwilling. I think it's the timing that made things so difficult for them. If they asked me at the gate I'd be willing to take $400 plus flight comps. If it's when I'm already seated on the plane though (and reports said the man taken off was seated and buckled in already), my price goes way up. One would think that since the crew dropped the ball by pulling people this late they would offer more money to make those guys volunteer happily.
- govg 10y ago
  The video that was circulating online showed all the passengers seated and buckled up, and the one guy being forcibly ousted from his seat. So yeah...
bertil 10y ago

devy 10y ago

One of the reports I heard from interviews of some other passengers on that flight was that the United issues voucher in $50 denominations, or 16 $50 vouchers expires in a year and have lots of restrictions and fine prints. In other words, the offer was NOT worthy the face value and hassle of "re-accommodation".

cr1895 10y ago
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights The airline may offer some alternative compensation (and of course one can accept it) but you have a right to a check. Of course the airline may try to hide this from you, or give you a hard time, but according to the Dept. of Transportation you're entitled to cash.
- devy 10y ago
  I doubt many passengers who got bumped are aware of their legal rights - I didn't until you linked it out. Edit: I read it again, it read like cash compensation is not guaranteed though. > Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. In other words, if you have a frequent flyer number or enrolled in customer loyalty program, airlines can argue that you "do indeed" fly frequently, can't they?
  - cr1895 10y ago
    You're correct that many people are unaware of their rights. It's too bad; the airlines are obligated to inform bumped passengers of their rights but they don't always. I'm not sure I follow your edit. How often you fly has no bearing on your rights. The DOT page says: "Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference." If you were involuntarily bumped from a flight and certain other conditions are met, you are entitled to compensation (cash if you wish). It has nothing to do with frequent flier status.

Stasis5001 10y ago

Right. Airlines overbook because they make more money, and they are bound by laws like "If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum)." Thus, if expected revenue from overbooking > expected payouts, overbooking is worth it. HOWEVER, the legal compensation required scales really weirdly - $1350 maximum for anything over a two hour delay? Why would being delayed three hours be equivalent to being delayed something like 12-18 hours? I'm also not sure that maximum number has scaled with inflation. Anyway, some airlines already do auction off this. All airlines ask for volunteers because the compensation they offer is always less than the legal requirement for involuntary bumping. This is just a mess because United had already let the passengers on the plane, and weren't even offering that maximum, much less over it. If somebody here actually knows contract of carriage laws, does this sort of 'required compensation' thing hold after boarding happened?

hunta2097 10y ago

From what I have read, if you volunteer to leave they can pay you in flight vouchers. The worth of these is lessened by the fact they would give you $300 as 6x $50 vouchers which cannot be used at the same time. If they elect you to leave the flight they have to pay you in cold hard cash - 4x the ticket value or $1350 max (assuming you are delayed by more than 2 hours). Never volunteer to leave a flight until they state how you will be paid. In Europe the airlines are not allowed to pay you in vouchers.

zeroer 10y ago

One issue is that the $800 that keeps getting quoted as the offered compensation was not cash. It was $800 in vouchers for more United flights that have redemption restrictions and a 1-year time limit. I guess it's worth something to some people, but it's really easy to see why no one chomped at the bit. United might have gotten someone to volunteer if it was just $500 of real cash.