4 ms·

What's the alternative? As an EU company, if I need to do business in the US then I can't say "let's schedule a meeting in a year while I go on a boat cruise".

What's the alternative? As an EU company, if I need to do business in the US then I can't say "let's schedule a meeting in a year while I go on a boat cruise". Virtual meetings only work to an extent -- they lack a human interaction touch. I suppose I can take a train if I go on holiday somewhere in the EU, but insane prices for international trains as well as other shenanigans are not making it an attractive choice.

harwoodleon 10y ago
I told you, you are symptomatic of the short-termist attitude that persists - we must carry on whatever the cost. The alternative is that you make do, because this is a serious situation, far more serious than a business deal. Ironically, your future income and the income and quality of your children's lives will be directly affected by your actions today. But, people just put it away in their minds, file it under "well, can't possibly do that" and forget about it. If the worst that can happen is some scary figures pop out of the news now and again, what's the point in changing? We will all look back in ten years and say, we had a chance to do something, but we didn't.
- BearGoesChirp 10y ago
  You make the sacrifices, you go out of business and are replaced by someone who doesn't who will continue flying. If anything you have only made the situation worse for you. It is a prisoner dilemma of the grandest scale that has origins predating multi-cellular organisms.
- FooBarWidget 10y ago
  That's easy for you to say but if I don't make money today then there may be no tomorrow to worry about. My point is that this can't just be a thing that an individual decides. We need country-level or international-level cooperation. Prisoner's dilemma, as others have pointed out.
falcolas 10y ago
There's another alternative - the slow boat. You can get from Europe to the US for around $700 on a cargo ship. The biggest difference is that it will take around 5-7 days one way. Most programmer's productivity wouldn't suffer too much from this, though managers or business owners might.
- kaybe 10y ago
  I guess we need better VR. Then it is not necessary to go over in person.
rwallace 10y ago
> What's the alternative? As an EU company, if I need to do business in the US then I can't say "let's schedule a meeting in a year while I go on a boat cruise". Virtual meetings only work to an extent -- they lack a human interaction touch. That is one way to look at it. Supposing we said, physical meetings only work to an extent -- they pollute the atmosphere. Therefore there is no alternative but to make virtual meetings work. I put it to you that virtual meetings would work well - if the technology isn't quite there yet, it would be rapidly improved - if we took the attitude that we have to make them work, instead of taking the attitude that we have to travel.

harwoodleon 10y ago

I told you, you are symptomatic of the short-termist attitude that persists - we must carry on whatever the cost. The alternative is that you make do, because this is a serious situation, far more serious than a business deal. Ironically, your future income and the income and quality of your children's lives will be directly affected by your actions today. But, people just put it away in their minds, file it under "well, can't possibly do that" and forget about it. If the worst that can happen is some scary figures pop out of the news now and again, what's the point in changing? We will all look back in ten years and say, we had a chance to do something, but we didn't.

BearGoesChirp 10y ago
You make the sacrifices, you go out of business and are replaced by someone who doesn't who will continue flying. If anything you have only made the situation worse for you. It is a prisoner dilemma of the grandest scale that has origins predating multi-cellular organisms.
FooBarWidget 10y ago
That's easy for you to say but if I don't make money today then there may be no tomorrow to worry about. My point is that this can't just be a thing that an individual decides. We need country-level or international-level cooperation. Prisoner's dilemma, as others have pointed out.

falcolas 10y ago

There's another alternative - the slow boat. You can get from Europe to the US for around $700 on a cargo ship. The biggest difference is that it will take around 5-7 days one way. Most programmer's productivity wouldn't suffer too much from this, though managers or business owners might.

kaybe 10y ago
I guess we need better VR. Then it is not necessary to go over in person.

rwallace 10y ago

> What's the alternative? As an EU company, if I need to do business in the US then I can't say "let's schedule a meeting in a year while I go on a boat cruise". Virtual meetings only work to an extent -- they lack a human interaction touch. That is one way to look at it. Supposing we said, physical meetings only work to an extent -- they pollute the atmosphere. Therefore there is no alternative but to make virtual meetings work. I put it to you that virtual meetings would work well - if the technology isn't quite there yet, it would be rapidly improved - if we took the attitude that we have to make them work, instead of taking the attitude that we have to travel.