7 ms·

I've worked with many contracting companies in gaming, not always, but it's not uncommon for contractors to produce higher quality work than employees and norma

• richforrester 10y ago
  I see where you're coming from but; > The guy poured his heart and soul into the project and was vested way beyond a paycheck ... so it's kinda sad when productivity isn't the reason.
• gambiting 10y ago
  Really? My experience with contractors(both in and out of gaming industry) is that they do the bare minimum required to keep the contract and still take 5-10x the daily wage of an employee. Employees(in my experience) usually care about the games they make, while contractors couldn't give any less damn about the project they work on, they are happy to switch with a days notice.
  • dawidw 10y ago
    So why do employers pay 5-10x for contractors?
    • reallydontask 10y ago
      I can't speak about gaming but for more general contracting the multiplier is 1.75 - 2.5x of a normal employee's salary There are a lot of reasons why employers hire contractors, some more valid than others. In my limited experience, it's rarely worth it, mostly because the relevant processes are never in place to ensure that loads of knowledge doesn't walk away with the contractor at the end of the contract edit: Should clarify that I'm in the UK.
      • dawidw 10y ago
        "There are a lot of reasons why employers hire contractors, some more valid than others." Could you elaborate on that, please? Thanks in advance!
        • Jonnax 10y ago
          Off the top of my head I know that contractors don't get benefits such as holidays, pensions and other employee benefits. Their contracts have an expiration so they're easier to get rid of on short notice. Also they are treated as capital expenditure versus operational expenditure. And I believe that you can do some accounting that is beneficial tax wise to a company. This is a UK perspective.
          • hnal943 10y ago
            Yep, those are the reasons in the US also.
        • reallydontask 10y ago
          On demand labour On demand skills higher skillset misallocation of internal resources internal politics hanging on to yearly budgets I could probably think of a few more Some of the above are perceived by PHBs types as there is always a finite pool of people with the skillset that is needed for the job at the skill level required etc...
        • liveoneggs 10y ago
          One that isn't mentioned much is avoiding corporate overhead costs, which I found interesting when I learned about it. Basically some big companies charge their divisions fees for upkeep of facilities, paying the finance team salaries, etc based on the number of employees in the division. So if you can have ten employees you are only on the hook for $1M/year in corp fees even though you actually have three "consultants" sharing desks with every employee for years-at-a-time. If you added the consultants to the employee roles then you would become a 50 person division, owing $5M/year to the home office. --- The CAPEX vs OPEX thing is a big driver too, of course, but there are definitely ways to classify employees, at least partially, as capex. It's why you can make an exempt employee fill out a timesheet to charge back projects which you have put into the capex group. A few jobs ago my group was told to find 80% capex or find new jobs. Most fridays were spent negotiating with project managers in tasks-for-hours swaps.
    • gambiting 10y ago
      Because they can be hired and fired at will, while an employee(at least where I work) has to be given at least 3 months notice, a severance package mandated by law, and they can sue for unfair dismissal. Plus you have to pay healthcare, pension fund and other benefits, plus they are entitled to 25 days of paid holiday a year plus unlimited paid sick leave. And finally, it's hard to find someone willing to become an employee for just 3-6 months required to finish a product. That's where contractors come in - they are much quicker to hire, they are much quicker to let go, and healtcare,pension, holidays is their responsibility. So to companies they can be worth the 5-10x what they would pay an employee for the same amount of work.
      • dawidw 10y ago
        I'm not sure about that 3-6 months contracts. I know few contractors and they've been working couple of years for the same position. So I'm not sure how this model can be beneficial for company. To make the picture more unclear, those contractors wouldn't like to switch to permanent position!
        • gambiting 10y ago
          Well at least in the UK if you are a contractor I would say it's typical to take 500-600 pounds a day. Plus if you are self employed you can expense a lot of things that you can't as a regular employee - petrol, part of mortgage/rent, computer for work etc etc etc. Sure, you have to do your own taxes and pay your own national insurance, but overall you can be taking a lot more money home than an employee, so it's no surprise to me that people like being contractors and wouldn't convert to employees even if they were offered a permanent position. edit: "typical" for a mid-to-senior level programmer contractor. A "contractor" doing QC in games will not take anywhere near as much.
          • osullivj 10y ago
            500-600 is a typical London rate. Outside London 300-400 is more likely.
    • org3432 10y ago
      Many reasons, at big companies employees require a lot of red tape so it's a way around it, you may need a specific skill set for a short period of time, or just a large volume of work to get done at peak. If they're good, the person may not want to be an employee, I see that all the time.
    • optimuspaul 10y ago
      I think that 5-10x is rare, but 2-3x is common. The reasoning is that the actual cost of an employee is 3-5x their actual pay. There is insurance, taxes, more insurance, benefits, workspace (which some contractors will need as well), office supplies, computer, etc. All that adds up.
  • org3432 10y ago
    I've never seen contractors care less, there can be issues of not understanding the context which can affect their work or people's perception, and certainly employees can feel insecure with contractors. But the reality is that the game wouldn't ship without them, that's why they're there.
  • nvarsj 10y ago
    It's a mixed bag. Many very talented engineers become contractors because they get sick of low pay, company politics, and the fact they get treated like a cog. So instead they embrace the cog concept and get paid well at the same time. These contractors will tend to care and do a really great job. On the other hand, you have the scabs that become contractors soley because it pays well - and also because generally it's easier to get hired as a contractor (less strict hiring process since it is a fixed contract length). That kind of person gives contractors a bad name. I've seen some of the worst and some of the best developers as contractors. This is even more pronounced in the UK where permanent employee pay is very low, compared to contractor pay. Generally the best engineers all end up becoming either contractors or go into finance where they can get paid well. And unfortunately the engineers who could never get employed as a perm employee also become contractors.
    • testloop 10y ago
      I agree... but, your reputation matters. In this city (Manchester), everyone talks. You won't last long as contractor if you're rubbish. And even if you managed to get in somewhere I imagine you'd be found out and binned pretty quickly.
      • nvarsj 10y ago
        In London at least, my impression is the demand is so great that many places are desperate enough to hire anyone with x years of tech (usually Java) on their CV, with usually just a screening by a non technical manager. It could be this is changing though, especially with increased supply after the recent IR35 changes in the public sector. And usually, these are not the kind of places good contractors want to work anyways.
      • s73ver 10y ago
        I don't think most people are suggesting that these former employees turned contractors would be rubbish. Just that they aren't willing to put up with the BS of "going the extra mile" or whatever without being paid for it.
• kodfodrasz 10y ago
  Games are not simple products. Except for AAA titles (which are often the gaming equivalent of the annual superhero movie) games need something special, some soul to be successfull. Without dedicated team pouring some of their personality into the game this will not happen. This is why I still play many older AAA games, yet only a few current AAA games, though my machine has enough HP for any current title. Yet current indie games often have this extra, and are on my menu. You can run a game factory like this, but this inflates the product line on the long run. Only managers will stay, and ideas will not blossom, only the management will execute the same reciepes over and over, and eventually customers will not come without insane sales campaigns.
  • Jare 10y ago
    I do not understand why AAA would be lumped together in such a soulless bag. Like superhero movies, some are done by the numbers, some are done without inspiration, some without talent, and yet some are brimming with soul, passion and dedication. That outcome is usually defined by their leaders and context; AAA games, blockbuster movies, and large productions in general, by nature don't let most of the individual developers' souls show visibly in the final product, but that soul is very much in there. "Many older AAA games yet only a few current AAA games" I suspect is more due to rose-tinted glasses and survivor bias. There was plenty of crap back then, and plenty of greatness today.
    • douche 10y ago
      Because when people say AAA, often they are talking about the cookie-cutter, churn-it-out yearly titles, like FIFA and Madden and Call of Duty. The other comparison with Hollywood is the unrelenting sequelitis. It's even reached the point now where game developers are planning trilogies from the start, like StarCraft II and Medieval Total War: Warhammer.
      • dkersten 10y ago
        When I hear most people say AAA, they tend to mean "big budget" (which usually implies fancy graphics, big musical scores, voice acting, mocap etc -- things that lower budget games can't afford).
• jlebrech 10y ago
  if you're a contractor being ask to do things out of your remit seems like a loss maker to an employer. but when you're salaried they tend to think they know you and give you things outside of your job spec more readily.
• Sharlin 10y ago
  > I think employees tend to think that culture is what they're there for instead of producing IP Yeah, how dare they...