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There are some trying to do this. Shawn Fanning's Helium is one of them. I looked at Helium. Problem is that when you sell your own design and don't publish

There are some trying to do this. Shawn Fanning's Helium is one of them. I looked at Helium. Problem is that when you sell your own design and don't publish your designs and standards you become a single-source vendor. As a manufacturer, I can't go with single-source vendors. I need backups and pricing competition and etc etc etc. So here we are, still writing code for WiFi radios and leveraging legacy OSS stacks to do the encryption and transport.

petra 10y ago
Helium are interesting, and there's a need for second sourcing, but also, i'm starting to think that the real problem is about creating percieved value for the end customer, like i explained in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14078560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14078560 I wonder what you, as a manufacturer think about it.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  It's an interesting idea, and I've thought about it as well. My first objection would be that I wouldn't put some black box module from a company like Amazon or Google on my design. Too many issues about what's inside and other things like Google's tendency to follow the shiny and discontinue products for no published reasons. My idea was more along the lines of Amazon or Microsoft selling AWS and Azure-enabled hubs or concentrators that did all the backend lifting and presented a simple REST or MQTT interface on the local network for data ingestion. Then you could connect any 802.11 radio to it and send data over an encrypted channel without having to worry about the heavier layers about it (TLS, DNS, Certs, SAS tokens, endpoints, etc).
  - petra 10y ago
    Yes, the router path makes sense. In a way, it's modular security - if the customer cares about security - he should pay a bit more for the right router, if not - it's his decision. Btw, Amazon does some interesting stuff with AWS greengrass, including a router, it's quite similar to how you view it. And i'm sure they'll take of telling end users.
    - joezydeco 10y ago
      Yeah, greengrass looks interesting. At least until I saw this: Devices need to offer at least 128 MB of memory and an x86 or ARM CPU that runs at 1 GHz or more My devices run on Cortex-M0s. That's not going to work at all.
pharkmillups 10y ago
Mark from Helium here. Fair point on not publishing designs. You're not the first to bring this up and we have plans to make this a non-issue in the future. Shoot me a note - mark@helium.com - if you're up for talking further. Any other thoughts / critiques would be most-appreciated.

petra 10y ago

Helium are interesting, and there's a need for second sourcing, but also, i'm starting to think that the real problem is about creating percieved value for the end customer, like i explained in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14078560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14078560 I wonder what you, as a manufacturer think about it.

joezydeco 10y ago
It's an interesting idea, and I've thought about it as well. My first objection would be that I wouldn't put some black box module from a company like Amazon or Google on my design. Too many issues about what's inside and other things like Google's tendency to follow the shiny and discontinue products for no published reasons. My idea was more along the lines of Amazon or Microsoft selling AWS and Azure-enabled hubs or concentrators that did all the backend lifting and presented a simple REST or MQTT interface on the local network for data ingestion. Then you could connect any 802.11 radio to it and send data over an encrypted channel without having to worry about the heavier layers about it (TLS, DNS, Certs, SAS tokens, endpoints, etc).
- petra 10y ago
  Yes, the router path makes sense. In a way, it's modular security - if the customer cares about security - he should pay a bit more for the right router, if not - it's his decision. Btw, Amazon does some interesting stuff with AWS greengrass, including a router, it's quite similar to how you view it. And i'm sure they'll take of telling end users.
  - joezydeco 10y ago
    Yeah, greengrass looks interesting. At least until I saw this: Devices need to offer at least 128 MB of memory and an x86 or ARM CPU that runs at 1 GHz or more My devices run on Cortex-M0s. That's not going to work at all.

pharkmillups 10y ago

Mark from Helium here. Fair point on not publishing designs. You're not the first to bring this up and we have plans to make this a non-issue in the future. Shoot me a note - mark@helium.com - if you're up for talking further. Any other thoughts / critiques would be most-appreciated.