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You are assuming that I haven't "lived it". Over the past 2 or 3 years, I have built around 8 web apps. Some which got virtually no traction at all, and some

You are assuming that I haven't "lived it". Over the past 2 or 3 years, I have built around 8 web apps. Some which got virtually no traction at all, and some which have reached a happy medium of users and income. None which have reached mega scale or millions of users (yet). Some of the (real world) feedback I got from the web apps that failed to get off the ground were due mainly to our customers complaining that: * pages were taking too long to reload. * not enough fields on a particular data table to store information in * missing API * pages that would refresh in entirety instead of just updating the changed portions Most customers didn't stick around to wait for us to address or fix the issues - there were plenty of other competitive products that fitted them better that they could start using that same day. A couple of those sites also got negative feedback on Reddit or HN because I hosted the front end website on a $5 VPS server and when the site suffered the inevitable 'hug of death' from posting to these sites, they immediately went down due to inability to scale under the sudden deluge of visitors, and I received uncomplimentary feedback on that (where people actually elected to post feedback rather than just close the browser tab and completely forget and move on from my app). Yes, over thinking scaling and design is bad, but putting it aside as a 'totally not important now' factor is also just as bad, if not worse, in my 'lived it' experience.

timewarrior 10y ago
It is great that you got a few which got traction out of 8 tries. This is an incredible success rate. Most people see much less success. The original suggestion is geared towards first few tries that people make. Once they have made a few attempts, they learn from it and naturally build more scalable products without spending extra effort. You have already read my story about my first try which had a very poor start. My subsequent efforts have scaled in that order without needing a single rewrite. However, if they spend too long procrastinating, worrying about and investing in scale - they are wasting precious time which would be better spent finding product market fit.
- cyberferret 10y ago
  Thanks, and also thank you for not reading my posts the wrong way. I am in no way having a go at you or refuting what you say. You've built something and got it to a level that many of us can only dream of, and for that you have my admiration and respect. Like you, each subsequent app that I built contained the lessons learned from the previous efforts - better front end frameworks, better data table normalising, better hosting infrastructure etc. Part of me always thinks back to the ones that didn't work, and I always ask myself - would they have worked if they had faster page refreshes, or more flexible data entry? Perhaps if I had spent more time in the planning and design before I launched them, they may not have sunk as quickly? Those 1000 users that time who came from my HN post and saw an 'Error 500' page - could a fraction of them been the ones who would have signed up and made us profitable if they didn't see the error page as their first introduction to my app?? For that reason alone, I am always skeptical of any post that promotes 'iterate often and fast' or 'fail quickly' rather than 'spend time on design and a unique experience'...
  - timewarrior 10y ago
    It's all in good spirit of sharing and learning. When you are thinking back, also consider the alternative where could you have missed opportunities and product launches because of extra effort spent on scaling upfront. It's all good learning in the end. It's great to be in your situation. Keep at it and you will see great success in future!
- user5994461 10y ago
  > It is great that you got a few which got traction out of 8 tries. This is an incredible success rate. That seems fairly reasonable to me. It all depends on what you call "success". Running a startup from zero to a billion dollar business is an incredible and rare achievement. Running a small site with a few hundreds/thousands users and a decent income is fairly reasonable.
pbreit 10y ago
None of those problems sound like scaling issues.
Dylan16807 10y ago
If it was slow for a small number of users, that is a fundamental design or operations flaw, not a scaling problem. Nobody is saying that performance doesn't matter. But if it performs well with 100 users, you can worry about the performance with 10k users later. And if it doesn't perform well with 100 users, it doesn't matter if the scaling is O(logn) even O(1). Performance under a sudden flood of users matters, but a lot less than day-to-day performance. And most of the criticism I see for sites dying is when they're serving static content with ideal O(1) scaling, but in a very unoptimized way.

timewarrior 10y ago

It is great that you got a few which got traction out of 8 tries. This is an incredible success rate. Most people see much less success. The original suggestion is geared towards first few tries that people make. Once they have made a few attempts, they learn from it and naturally build more scalable products without spending extra effort. You have already read my story about my first try which had a very poor start. My subsequent efforts have scaled in that order without needing a single rewrite. However, if they spend too long procrastinating, worrying about and investing in scale - they are wasting precious time which would be better spent finding product market fit.

cyberferret 10y ago
Thanks, and also thank you for not reading my posts the wrong way. I am in no way having a go at you or refuting what you say. You've built something and got it to a level that many of us can only dream of, and for that you have my admiration and respect. Like you, each subsequent app that I built contained the lessons learned from the previous efforts - better front end frameworks, better data table normalising, better hosting infrastructure etc. Part of me always thinks back to the ones that didn't work, and I always ask myself - would they have worked if they had faster page refreshes, or more flexible data entry? Perhaps if I had spent more time in the planning and design before I launched them, they may not have sunk as quickly? Those 1000 users that time who came from my HN post and saw an 'Error 500' page - could a fraction of them been the ones who would have signed up and made us profitable if they didn't see the error page as their first introduction to my app?? For that reason alone, I am always skeptical of any post that promotes 'iterate often and fast' or 'fail quickly' rather than 'spend time on design and a unique experience'...
- timewarrior 10y ago
  It's all in good spirit of sharing and learning. When you are thinking back, also consider the alternative where could you have missed opportunities and product launches because of extra effort spent on scaling upfront. It's all good learning in the end. It's great to be in your situation. Keep at it and you will see great success in future!
user5994461 10y ago
> It is great that you got a few which got traction out of 8 tries. This is an incredible success rate. That seems fairly reasonable to me. It all depends on what you call "success". Running a startup from zero to a billion dollar business is an incredible and rare achievement. Running a small site with a few hundreds/thousands users and a decent income is fairly reasonable.

pbreit 10y ago

None of those problems sound like scaling issues.

Dylan16807 10y ago

If it was slow for a small number of users, that is a fundamental design or operations flaw, not a scaling problem. Nobody is saying that performance doesn't matter. But if it performs well with 100 users, you can worry about the performance with 10k users later. And if it doesn't perform well with 100 users, it doesn't matter if the scaling is O(logn) even O(1). Performance under a sudden flood of users matters, but a lot less than day-to-day performance. And most of the criticism I see for sites dying is when they're serving static content with ideal O(1) scaling, but in a very unoptimized way.