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The current buzz is "basic income." While I'm not opposed to the idea that if you're born -- and if so much of the world values human life including and especi

The current buzz is "basic income." While I'm not opposed to the idea that if you're born -- and if so much of the world values human life including and especially in the womb -- then you should have the opportunity to at least "get by" and not be per force exploited, much less sickened and killed. While I'm not opposed to it, there is a pre-cursor of ostensibly more limited scope, and perhaps of greater benefit than just "throwing undifferentiated dollars" at a problem. Access to healthcare. Not necessarily absolutely unlimited, spend 100K for an extra last week of life healthcare. But quality basic, effective healthcare. If we value human life, then we should also value the quality of that life. Providing effective health care greatly enhances that quality. It greatly enhances the ability of people to take care of themselves, and their families. And their friends. You may not live in a palace, nor anything close. But we'll do our best to help you have the physical wherewithal to enjoy the day. And to keep you that way. If you become injured or ill, you will not be alone -- and we will not let others prey upon you in your weakness. If we -- here in the U.S., in my case -- can't do this. With all our resources and largess. Well, then, you can just go and stuff the rest of your moralizing and idealizing.

wincy 10y ago
I would have a thousand children if I could. If I can pay for them all and don't draw benefits, who cares? People might think I'm eccentric, but it's not like I'm taking more than my fair share. Once the government is paying every one of my kids, suddenly people wants to have a say in the number of children I can have. I also want my insurance to spend a million dollars if it means I can live for an extra week. Even if I'm absolutely miserable. Even if I'm unconscious. I don't care about your "not necessarily absolutely unlimited" healthcare plans that dictate how long I get to live. That's not your call, if I paid for insurance that says they'll spend a million dollars on end of life care they'd better spend a million dollars. Just to preempt Poe's law here, I'm absolutely serious in both of my above statements. I'm not creating a straw man or using hyperbole. I think basic income and "free" healthcare would have strings attached that I quite frankly find disgusting.
- redm 10y ago
  A bit OT... > I would have a thousand children if I could. I know this is just an example, but here are obligations that come with children beyond the economic cost. As someone with 3 small children, a basic income for them would not incentivize me in any way to have more.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Here in Europe, many governments already pay for each child, with the intent of convincing and helping people have more. You can also pay for your $1M never-let-me-die insurance policy over what free healthcare provides. What makes you worry that people would try to intrude into your decision of how many children you want to have, or how much to spend on healthcare?
- pasbesoin 10y ago
  So, I got royally screwed by a few institutions and people. Things that have left lingering health effects. I hope you're not one of them. Because, per your attitude, I'm free to kill you and take all you have. Make people pay for their kids. That's fine with me. Make it expensive to have kids -- an expense you can't easily get out of, like credit card debt and student loans and, hey!, medical bills, during bankruptcy. Why are you going to make the kids suffer? If someone is that uncaring to start with, the sight of their suffering kids is going to turn them around? Why do I take care of other people, already on the earth? So I can walk down the street in peace and comfort. Why do I pay for others' health care, meaning those not of my family? (And I have, including personally, maybe a lot more than you.) Because the world isn't perfect, and it screws people over. And physical discomfort engenders psychological discomfort and suffering. I can't fix the past, as history, but I believe we should do our best to ameliorate and alleviate its physical after-effects. I've observed the benefit of helping others. And I've suffered the consequences of others' inconsideration. For those reasons, I think we should guarantee each other's access to quality health care. It's called "insurance". That is, insurance against many things. Because you don't know who life is going to screw over. And because you'd rather spend your day with healthy people, than miserable ones. P.S. A major point of advice in life, including from many experts, is to "move on." Do you want to spend years in court, and struggling to find ways to pay for the legal effort, to seek recompense for a past injury? Or maybe do you want to heal it as best you can and focus on the present and future? And, HN tends to be populated with people who are not overly fond of lawsuits and unlimited liability. Well, what is a practical way of lessening those? Provide an avenue for mistakes to be addressed and for people to get on with their lives. As the old saying goes, "Health is wealth." Restore their "wealth", in this aspect. Under those circumstances, I think and find that most people then choose not to dwell on the past. Including in court.

wincy 10y ago

I would have a thousand children if I could. If I can pay for them all and don't draw benefits, who cares? People might think I'm eccentric, but it's not like I'm taking more than my fair share. Once the government is paying every one of my kids, suddenly people wants to have a say in the number of children I can have. I also want my insurance to spend a million dollars if it means I can live for an extra week. Even if I'm absolutely miserable. Even if I'm unconscious. I don't care about your "not necessarily absolutely unlimited" healthcare plans that dictate how long I get to live. That's not your call, if I paid for insurance that says they'll spend a million dollars on end of life care they'd better spend a million dollars. Just to preempt Poe's law here, I'm absolutely serious in both of my above statements. I'm not creating a straw man or using hyperbole. I think basic income and "free" healthcare would have strings attached that I quite frankly find disgusting.

redm 10y ago
A bit OT... > I would have a thousand children if I could. I know this is just an example, but here are obligations that come with children beyond the economic cost. As someone with 3 small children, a basic income for them would not incentivize me in any way to have more.
icebraining 10y ago
Here in Europe, many governments already pay for each child, with the intent of convincing and helping people have more. You can also pay for your $1M never-let-me-die insurance policy over what free healthcare provides. What makes you worry that people would try to intrude into your decision of how many children you want to have, or how much to spend on healthcare?
pasbesoin 10y ago
So, I got royally screwed by a few institutions and people. Things that have left lingering health effects. I hope you're not one of them. Because, per your attitude, I'm free to kill you and take all you have. Make people pay for their kids. That's fine with me. Make it expensive to have kids -- an expense you can't easily get out of, like credit card debt and student loans and, hey!, medical bills, during bankruptcy. Why are you going to make the kids suffer? If someone is that uncaring to start with, the sight of their suffering kids is going to turn them around? Why do I take care of other people, already on the earth? So I can walk down the street in peace and comfort. Why do I pay for others' health care, meaning those not of my family? (And I have, including personally, maybe a lot more than you.) Because the world isn't perfect, and it screws people over. And physical discomfort engenders psychological discomfort and suffering. I can't fix the past, as history, but I believe we should do our best to ameliorate and alleviate its physical after-effects. I've observed the benefit of helping others. And I've suffered the consequences of others' inconsideration. For those reasons, I think we should guarantee each other's access to quality health care. It's called "insurance". That is, insurance against many things. Because you don't know who life is going to screw over. And because you'd rather spend your day with healthy people, than miserable ones. P.S. A major point of advice in life, including from many experts, is to "move on." Do you want to spend years in court, and struggling to find ways to pay for the legal effort, to seek recompense for a past injury? Or maybe do you want to heal it as best you can and focus on the present and future? And, HN tends to be populated with people who are not overly fond of lawsuits and unlimited liability. Well, what is a practical way of lessening those? Provide an avenue for mistakes to be addressed and for people to get on with their lives. As the old saying goes, "Health is wealth." Restore their "wealth", in this aspect. Under those circumstances, I think and find that most people then choose not to dwell on the past. Including in court.