12 ms·

Microsoft’s Surface Pro 5 Said to Move to Intel Kaby Lake Processors

81 points by artsandsci 10y ago

vdnkh 10y ago
I'm glad they didn't move to ARM for the Surface. I bought my mom one for Christmas to replace her iPad 1 (her main computer at the time) and she loves it. Having arthritis, a touchscreen hybrid works really well for her. Not having full access to Windows apps (because of ARM) would probably make it a non-starter though.
- vezycash 10y ago
  That's what the windows on ARM version is supposed to solve.
- wtallis 10y ago
  The Surface family started with both ARM and x86 models. The x86-based Pro was the only one that met with any success. The non-Pro Surface used NVidia Tegra for the first two generations before switching to Intel Atom.
- cbhl 10y ago
  Didn't Surface go the other way? They started with the ARM-based Surface and the Intel-based Surface Pro in the Windows 8 era, but seem to have stopped iterating on ARM-based designs.
- pjc50 10y ago
  They tried that with "Surface RT" and it was a total market failure.
  - phr4ts 10y ago
    RT was a great product. If the OS wasn't named Windows, I'm certain it would have performed much better in the market. People who bought RT devices EXPECTED to run x86 software but couldn't. To understand the power of expectations, consider Surface. Ms originally positioned the Surface as an iPad competitor. And that singlehandedly doomed the Surface until it was repositioned as a MacBook competitor in subsequent releases.
    - floatboth 10y ago
      My mom bought a Nokia Windows RT tablet a few years ago — without expecting to run x86 software. It still sucked. You're stuck with Windows 8.x, Office 2013 and IE 11. The Store actually has some useful apps. But, like, there's no Firefox, even.
      - douche 10y ago
        Yeah, those are not much good for anything, at this point. The one I have for work labors to process the Office 365 Outlook webapp and our ticketing portal when I take it to meetings. The $40 Amazon Fire tablet I have feels snappier.
        floatboth 10y ago
        Works fine as a remote desktop client though :D
      - nailer 10y ago
        Couldn't you install Windows 10 ARM?
        floatboth 10y ago
        No? There's no official update and the device is very locked down. I haven't heard of an unofficial way to do that.
        nailer 10y ago
        Wouldn't Microsoft send all the devices a free Windows 10 upgrade? Or was that Intel only?
    - shuntress 10y ago
      Sorry for being so pedantic but Microsoft ORIGINALLY positioned the Surface as smart furniture. Pixel Sense used to be called Surface until Microsoft switched the names around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense
- mtgx 10y ago
  That was Windows RT, and I don't think Surface has had ARM versions since 2-3 years ago. Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs.
  - macintux 10y ago
    > Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs. How would they pull off that miracle? Emulating Intel on an ARM chip would be sllloooowwwwwww.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      I read somewhere it would be a binary translator. As you have the WinAPI calls natively on ARM, they translate x86 to ARM on the fly and store the result. Not sure if that's true or not.
    - Grazester 10y ago
      http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonstrates-full-windows-10-with-photoshop-on-arm-chips http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonst... ...You were saying?
      - macintux 10y ago
        I admit, I didn't realize they'd already done it with some success. Proof will be in the pudding, however.
    - nereye 10y ago
      It does not seem slow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U.
- vmarsy 10y ago
  Regarding the full access to apps on ARM: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows...
archildress 10y ago
Anyone on HN using a Surface Pro 4 regularly? What are your thoughts after having it for an extended time? (I read quite a few reviews when they first came out, but I'm always curious to know how those products feel after being used consistently for a long period of time)
- jrs95 10y ago
  I had tried for awhile thinking I could get by on Bash for Windows & Vagrant, but there were a lot of headaches and I ended up returning it and getting myself a Lenovo I could run Linux on. But if Windows itself wouldn't be a problem for you, I think it's a fantastic machine
  - dmix 10y ago
    There's no support for Surface with Linux desktop natively? I thought the hardware would be pretty mainstream, drivers-wise.
    - cgh 10y ago
      From what I understand, and this is just what I've read, the Pro 4 has keyboard and touchpad issues (Fedora 25). There are a bunch of kernel patches available but I'm not sure if they resolve the issues. If anyone with actual experience could add to this, that would be great. It does look like a great combo.
      - AsyncAwait 10y ago
        The typecover 4 is natively supported since kernel 4.10.
      - marmaduke 10y ago
        With Ubuntu 16, this worked out of the box, no issues. The main problem I found was hidpi scaling, which is in no way unique to the surface.
    - pttrsmrt 10y ago
mtgx 10y ago
I would've been more interested in seeing a quad-core Ryzen version, especially instead of the dual-core Intel Surface 5 models.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  Also interested in quad-core, but am not sure about the thermals with that.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  Ryzen is good, especially in terms of cores/dollar, but unfortunately I think Intel is still winning handily on thermals, which are the most important consideration in form factors like the Surface. I expect Microsoft will stick with Intel for at least one more generation.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dade_ 10y ago
I bought my Surface Pro 3 when it came out years ago and the SP5 is a done deal. I consider the money already spent...
- stcredzero 10y ago
  My girlfriend actually works from home on her Surface Pro 3. I just bought her an external screen for it. One thing: it's pretty picky about the DisplayPort cable. As far as being used as a tablet and as a laptop, it totally works. My girlfriend also watches movies in bed with it. (Though for YouTube, she uses the iPad mini instead.)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lewisl9029 10y ago
Basically the only thing holding me back from getting a Surface is the lack of Thunderbolt 3 for connecting external graphics. If they address that with the Surface Pro 5, it'd be an instant buy for me. Though I was secretly hoping for some more exciting additions on the hardware side with this next refresh (OLED display? Wireless charging? WiGig docking? Fanless cooling?), so the "nothing dramatic" comment was somewhat of a letdown for me. Hoping they have something more exciting planned on the Surface Book side. I might end up going for that instead.
6stringmerc 10y ago
Definitely on my all-caps WANT list of practical purchases as soon as I can. Occasionally get to borrow a SP3 top spec and it's so impressive to me. The fit and finish are up there with my expectations of Akai type foresight. Provided Microsoft pays close attention to 'just enough' ports to keep it ahead of the Apple trajectory, I think they'll continue to bite market share in areas that typically were Macbook Pro favored. Win10 seems to "just work" for enough Users while still being a functional Enterprise deployment that I'm frankly still impressed how they've won back customers.
- mustacheemperor 10y ago
  >Occasionally get to borrow a SP3 top spec As an owner of an SP3 top spec, the regular experience isn't always as great as the occasional one. Microsoft chose to use a cheap Marvell wifi unit and mine STILL has consistent problems connecting/disconnecting. I've had to reinstall windows entirely in an attempt to get the drivers functional in the past. It still feels crazy to be able to run VMs and CC on a tablet but you will pay for that i7 in heat and battery life. That said, those flaws are pretty rare and largely worth it in the day to day. Most of the time, it's as you describe - and I haven't heard of the newer devices having nearly the same gamut of problems. Don't buy it expecting to do any serious art design on the touchscreen though, the pen is only "okay."
will_hughes 10y ago
fta: > Surface Pro 5 will not change the Surface Connect power connector, I was just told. Kaby Lake, nothing dramatic. [0] I don't mind if they keep the connector, but unless they also add USB-C with Power Delivery support (i.e so I can charge over USB-C), it's dead in the water as far as I'm concerned. For laptops, tablets, phones, etc - anything that's small and low powered, I'm over proprietary connectors. Having one charger and one cable that does everything is incredibly convenient, and hard to go back from. [0] https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/850080349778587648 https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/850080349778587648

81 points by artsandsci 10y ago

vdnkh 10y ago

I'm glad they didn't move to ARM for the Surface. I bought my mom one for Christmas to replace her iPad 1 (her main computer at the time) and she loves it. Having arthritis, a touchscreen hybrid works really well for her. Not having full access to Windows apps (because of ARM) would probably make it a non-starter though.

vezycash 10y ago
That's what the windows on ARM version is supposed to solve.
wtallis 10y ago
The Surface family started with both ARM and x86 models. The x86-based Pro was the only one that met with any success. The non-Pro Surface used NVidia Tegra for the first two generations before switching to Intel Atom.
cbhl 10y ago
Didn't Surface go the other way? They started with the ARM-based Surface and the Intel-based Surface Pro in the Windows 8 era, but seem to have stopped iterating on ARM-based designs.
pjc50 10y ago
They tried that with "Surface RT" and it was a total market failure.
- phr4ts 10y ago
  RT was a great product. If the OS wasn't named Windows, I'm certain it would have performed much better in the market. People who bought RT devices EXPECTED to run x86 software but couldn't. To understand the power of expectations, consider Surface. Ms originally positioned the Surface as an iPad competitor. And that singlehandedly doomed the Surface until it was repositioned as a MacBook competitor in subsequent releases.
  - floatboth 10y ago
    My mom bought a Nokia Windows RT tablet a few years ago — without expecting to run x86 software. It still sucked. You're stuck with Windows 8.x, Office 2013 and IE 11. The Store actually has some useful apps. But, like, there's no Firefox, even.
    - douche 10y ago
      Yeah, those are not much good for anything, at this point. The one I have for work labors to process the Office 365 Outlook webapp and our ticketing portal when I take it to meetings. The $40 Amazon Fire tablet I have feels snappier.
      - floatboth 10y ago
        Works fine as a remote desktop client though :D
    - nailer 10y ago
      Couldn't you install Windows 10 ARM?
      - floatboth 10y ago
        No? There's no official update and the device is very locked down. I haven't heard of an unofficial way to do that.
        nailer 10y ago
        Wouldn't Microsoft send all the devices a free Windows 10 upgrade? Or was that Intel only?
  - shuntress 10y ago
    Sorry for being so pedantic but Microsoft ORIGINALLY positioned the Surface as smart furniture. Pixel Sense used to be called Surface until Microsoft switched the names around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense
mtgx 10y ago
That was Windows RT, and I don't think Surface has had ARM versions since 2-3 years ago. Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs.
- macintux 10y ago
  > Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs. How would they pull off that miracle? Emulating Intel on an ARM chip would be sllloooowwwwwww.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    I read somewhere it would be a binary translator. As you have the WinAPI calls natively on ARM, they translate x86 to ARM on the fly and store the result. Not sure if that's true or not.
  - Grazester 10y ago
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonstrates-full-windows-10-with-photoshop-on-arm-chips http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonst... ...You were saying?
    - macintux 10y ago
      I admit, I didn't realize they'd already done it with some success. Proof will be in the pudding, however.
  - nereye 10y ago
    It does not seem slow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U.
vmarsy 10y ago
Regarding the full access to apps on ARM: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows...

archildress 10y ago

Anyone on HN using a Surface Pro 4 regularly? What are your thoughts after having it for an extended time? (I read quite a few reviews when they first came out, but I'm always curious to know how those products feel after being used consistently for a long period of time)

jrs95 10y ago
I had tried for awhile thinking I could get by on Bash for Windows & Vagrant, but there were a lot of headaches and I ended up returning it and getting myself a Lenovo I could run Linux on. But if Windows itself wouldn't be a problem for you, I think it's a fantastic machine
- dmix 10y ago
  There's no support for Surface with Linux desktop natively? I thought the hardware would be pretty mainstream, drivers-wise.
  - cgh 10y ago
    From what I understand, and this is just what I've read, the Pro 4 has keyboard and touchpad issues (Fedora 25). There are a bunch of kernel patches available but I'm not sure if they resolve the issues. If anyone with actual experience could add to this, that would be great. It does look like a great combo.
    - AsyncAwait 10y ago
      The typecover 4 is natively supported since kernel 4.10.
    - marmaduke 10y ago
      With Ubuntu 16, this worked out of the box, no issues. The main problem I found was hidpi scaling, which is in no way unique to the surface.
  - pttrsmrt 10y ago

mtgx 10y ago

I would've been more interested in seeing a quad-core Ryzen version, especially instead of the dual-core Intel Surface 5 models.

AsyncAwait 10y ago
Also interested in quad-core, but am not sure about the thermals with that.
Analemma_ 10y ago
Ryzen is good, especially in terms of cores/dollar, but unfortunately I think Intel is still winning handily on thermals, which are the most important consideration in form factors like the Surface. I expect Microsoft will stick with Intel for at least one more generation.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dade_ 10y ago

I bought my Surface Pro 3 when it came out years ago and the SP5 is a done deal. I consider the money already spent...

stcredzero 10y ago
My girlfriend actually works from home on her Surface Pro 3. I just bought her an external screen for it. One thing: it's pretty picky about the DisplayPort cable. As far as being used as a tablet and as a laptop, it totally works. My girlfriend also watches movies in bed with it. (Though for YouTube, she uses the iPad mini instead.)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

lewisl9029 10y ago

Basically the only thing holding me back from getting a Surface is the lack of Thunderbolt 3 for connecting external graphics. If they address that with the Surface Pro 5, it'd be an instant buy for me. Though I was secretly hoping for some more exciting additions on the hardware side with this next refresh (OLED display? Wireless charging? WiGig docking? Fanless cooling?), so the "nothing dramatic" comment was somewhat of a letdown for me. Hoping they have something more exciting planned on the Surface Book side. I might end up going for that instead.

6stringmerc 10y ago

Definitely on my all-caps WANT list of practical purchases as soon as I can. Occasionally get to borrow a SP3 top spec and it's so impressive to me. The fit and finish are up there with my expectations of Akai type foresight. Provided Microsoft pays close attention to 'just enough' ports to keep it ahead of the Apple trajectory, I think they'll continue to bite market share in areas that typically were Macbook Pro favored. Win10 seems to "just work" for enough Users while still being a functional Enterprise deployment that I'm frankly still impressed how they've won back customers.

mustacheemperor 10y ago
>Occasionally get to borrow a SP3 top spec As an owner of an SP3 top spec, the regular experience isn't always as great as the occasional one. Microsoft chose to use a cheap Marvell wifi unit and mine STILL has consistent problems connecting/disconnecting. I've had to reinstall windows entirely in an attempt to get the drivers functional in the past. It still feels crazy to be able to run VMs and CC on a tablet but you will pay for that i7 in heat and battery life. That said, those flaws are pretty rare and largely worth it in the day to day. Most of the time, it's as you describe - and I haven't heard of the newer devices having nearly the same gamut of problems. Don't buy it expecting to do any serious art design on the touchscreen though, the pen is only "okay."

will_hughes 10y ago

fta: > Surface Pro 5 will not change the Surface Connect power connector, I was just told. Kaby Lake, nothing dramatic. [0] I don't mind if they keep the connector, but unless they also add USB-C with Power Delivery support (i.e so I can charge over USB-C), it's dead in the water as far as I'm concerned. For laptops, tablets, phones, etc - anything that's small and low powered, I'm over proprietary connectors. Having one charger and one cable that does everything is incredibly convenient, and hard to go back from. [0] https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/850080349778587648 https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/850080349778587648