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This is surprisingly complex. I expected more points to clearly lean towards it or away from it. There are cost overruns and delays, but renegotiations happened

by sqeaky 10y ago

This is surprisingly complex. I expected more points to clearly lean towards it or away from it. There are cost overruns and delays, but renegotiations happened and corrected at least some of that. The plane is real and works, but has weaknesses. It has tentative bipartisan support. We built another Jack of all trades for Veitnam, the F4 phantom. Largely it was regard as a failure because it wasn't good at anything. Is the F35 advanced enough that not being the best still leaves the USA with better than everyone else and therefor less than the best is good enough?

flukus 10y ago
> Is the F35 advanced enough that not being the best still leaves the USA with better than everyone else and therefor less than the best is good enough? The other question is "and for how long?". Is it worth the price for a 5 or 10 year edge?
mikeash 10y ago
Is the F-4 really regarded as a failure? I thought it was a pretty big success. It certainly wasn't trouble-free. Infamously, the missile-only design ended up being way premature, but that was ultimately solved with a gun pod, and then a redesign to integrate a gun. Its combat record was good, it served in the US military for three decades, and it still serves in several foreign militaries today. However, I'm far from an expert, and would love to know more if I got it wrong!
- justin66 10y ago
  No, you're right. I suspect the plane squeaky was really thinking of was the F-111. The F-35's development process was reminiscent of the F-111, with features incorporated to create something for everyone, along with the concomitant weight and cost increases.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Yes, the F-111 would fit much better! Seems like the F-4 and F-111 occupy opposite extremes of the potential outcomes for a jack-of-all-trades aircraft.
aanm1988 10y ago
> Is the F35 advanced enough that not being the best still leaves the USA with better than everyone else I thought the F-35 was never intended to be the best, but rather the best the US is willing to sell? That's kinda pedantic, but I'm actually meaning it as a question not a correction.
- SkyMarshal 10y ago
  That's about accurate. F-35 is the best multi-role fighter the US is willing to sell to allies. The F-22 by comparison is the best air superiority fighter the US keeps to itself.

by sqeaky 10y ago

flukus 10y ago

> Is the F35 advanced enough that not being the best still leaves the USA with better than everyone else and therefor less than the best is good enough? The other question is "and for how long?". Is it worth the price for a 5 or 10 year edge?

mikeash 10y ago

Is the F-4 really regarded as a failure? I thought it was a pretty big success. It certainly wasn't trouble-free. Infamously, the missile-only design ended up being way premature, but that was ultimately solved with a gun pod, and then a redesign to integrate a gun. Its combat record was good, it served in the US military for three decades, and it still serves in several foreign militaries today. However, I'm far from an expert, and would love to know more if I got it wrong!

justin66 10y ago
No, you're right. I suspect the plane squeaky was really thinking of was the F-111. The F-35's development process was reminiscent of the F-111, with features incorporated to create something for everyone, along with the concomitant weight and cost increases.
- mikeash 10y ago
  Yes, the F-111 would fit much better! Seems like the F-4 and F-111 occupy opposite extremes of the potential outcomes for a jack-of-all-trades aircraft.

aanm1988 10y ago

> Is the F35 advanced enough that not being the best still leaves the USA with better than everyone else I thought the F-35 was never intended to be the best, but rather the best the US is willing to sell? That's kinda pedantic, but I'm actually meaning it as a question not a correction.

SkyMarshal 10y ago
That's about accurate. F-35 is the best multi-role fighter the US is willing to sell to allies. The F-22 by comparison is the best air superiority fighter the US keeps to itself.