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That's Sir Tim(othy). The "Sir" attaches to the given name, not the surname.
by stan_rogers 10y ago
That's Sir Tim(othy). The "Sir" attaches to the given name, not the surname.
- nojvek 10y agoI've never quite figured out how sirs work. I know Knights were addressed with sirs and the Queen had something to do with it, but how does it work in a multicultural UK?
- cjbprime 10y agoNot sure I'm following you -- yes, the Queen knighted him. How does the multicultural part come in? (Women receive the same award but it's called a Damehood and their prefix is Dame.)
- nindalf 10y agoIf Kazuo Ishiguro is knighted, should he be addressed as Sir Kazuo or Sir Ishiguro? The point being that people of Japanese descent might place their first names after their last names.
- philipov 10y agoThat's a language issue, not a culture issue. Normally, one uses the name ordering appropriate to the language one is speaking at the moment. Therefore, the question is equivalent to "What is the Japanese translation of 'Sir'"
- cjbprime 10y agoThis question doesn't seem very relevant to knighthoods. Whatever would be appropriate to call someone as their given name, rather than family name, would go after "Sir". It's not very complicated.
- Nadya 10y agoSir Kazuo. With some exceptions - Japanese people "normalize" their names to English name order of Given Name, Family Name when writing or speaking in English. Some choose not to, usually out of national pride, but it is most common to normalize the name to the target language. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_in_English_and_other_Western_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_i...
- Symbiote 10y agoAn example: Sir Ong-Siang. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Ong_Siang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Ong_Siang
- robotresearcher 10y agoA sidebar issue: all these rules apply to knighthoods from the UK crown only. And under these rules non-Brits may be knighted but do not use the title 'sir'. Thus Bill Gates KBE is not known as Sir Bill. (edit: Today I learned that Kazuo Ishiguro is British. The statement below is completely wrong. I've managed to get his nationality wrong while enjoying his books for 20 years!) So in the specific case of Kazuo Ishiguro, the sir does not apply. For Brits with family-first names, see the other answers.
- DanBC 10y agoKazuo Ishiguro is British. He's not called "Sir" because he has an OBE. He needs a GBE or DBE for the "Sir". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire
- OJFord 10y agoAnd were he not British, he would not be entitled as such - Gates and Geldof iirc are such examples; sometimes (incorrectly) titled 'Sir' in press.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Godel_unicode 10y agoIt's fortunate, then, that it's Sir GivenName, not Sir FirstName.
- stan_rogers 10y agoKnighthood is a life award. You are given the rank of Knight Commander of an appropriate order or made a Knight Bachelor (no particular order; lower precedence when it comes to deciding who walks in front of whom). The knighthood dies with the knight. Again, the "Sir" attaches to the given name ("first" name, even if that comes last or somewhere in the middle, or is a compound name in itself). In general, the "Sir" is only used for address or casual reference; you'd use the post-nominal letters in a more formal written setting.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- DanBC 10y agoDebretts is probably the place to find this out. Here's the rules for putting the letters after names: https://www.debretts.com/expertise/forms-of-address/letters-after-the-name/ https://www.debretts.com/expertise/forms-of-address/letters-... The Joint Forms of address gives you some clues about the order of words before the name: https://www.debretts.com/expertise/forms-of-address/joint-forms-of-address/ https://www.debretts.com/expertise/forms-of-address/joint-fo... Note that most people don't know about this stuff, and don't really care about it.
- michalskop 10y agoI've never understood why people (particularly outside UK) care about some "sirs" at all. "Mr. Tim Berners-Lee" sounds just fine to me.
- chrisseaton 10y agoWhy use a title at all if you're going to use the wrong one?
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoHe's still a mister. It's whether you buy in to "this is a male adult" vs. "I must respect this person's title because HM The Queen bestowed it on them". Mr Berners-Lee surely won't feel offended because the person addressing him isn't a [UK] royalist?
- chrisseaton 10y agoCalling him Berners-Lee sounds like you would rather not use titles at all, which seems like a defensible position. Calling him Mr Berners-Lee sounds like you're going out of your way to deliberately use the wrong title, which just seems rude.
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoAll adult males in the UK that you don't know the first name of but do know the surname of are called "Mr $Surname" as a social norm. Adjusting that designation because the Queen says so is very common too, but maintaining the status quo is just being apathetic towards the Queens edicts. Most of her subjects do not complain. Some of them think we should have done away with such notions of reigning over other people already. FWIW outside celebrity circles it is often considered quite gauche to insist on such pompous titles. If you insist I'd be happy with calling him Professor Berners-Lee (even assuming he doesn't still have an active official professorship). If you want to talk about proper titles then is Sir Berners-Lee also rude when it should, by the right of HM EIIR be "Professor Sir Berners-Lee" [when spoken]? If you're worried about recognition I think Mr Berners-Lee is not lacking in that department and was already party to the Queens inner circle as a holder of the Order of Merit which appears to be a far greater royal honour than a "mere" KBE. He has my utmost respect, if you doubted it.