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He mentions the "basic necessities being taken care of", but I just want to mention again that a certain amount of money can make a surprising amount of problem

He mentions the "basic necessities being taken care of", but I just want to mention again that a certain amount of money can make a surprising amount of problems go away. I don't think that aspect should be underestimated. As I am scrambling by these days, I often run into these problems. For example recently our dishwasher broke down. I spent a lot of time deciding whether to get it repaired or buy a new one, and then researching the latter. With money I would have saved lots of time by simply buying a medium priced new one off the internet. Health issues, accommodation, travel plans, lots of worries can go away and they wear down people who don't have the cash. For example we often stress out about travel plans because we have to book far in advance or it gets too expensive. (I know these sound like luxury problems, but when it is a strain on the marriage it can escalate into real problems quickly). On the other hand, it seems a lot of people feel rich when they aren't yet. For example, 5 Million $ doesn't seem that rich to me, more like a slightly higher pension prospect. I have friends in the tech industry who have some money (not super rich) and take it slow, not taking into account that one day their needs might change and they might suddenly need a lot more money, and have less opportunities to earn it (for example because they get a family, or health issues).

kelnos 10y ago
Agreed, this article really rang hollow to me. I think part of it is that (as he admits), he has/had a lot of self-esteem/self-worth issues, and his (monetary) wealth got mixed in with that. Because of that, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks at money with a negative bias ("having money made me feel worse because it didn't fix my self-worth issues, so it must be bad") to some extent. I wouldn't call myself rich, but I also don't need to worry too much about money for the moment. That means I don't have to make a budget, fret over whether or not I should pay more for a flight with a more convenient itinerary, or be constantly anxious over whether or not I'd be able to pay for medical bills if I unexpectedly injured myself or got very ill. There are so many people in this world that don't have that comfort, and I think it's very easy to forget what that feels like once you've achieved a certain amount of wealth. (Hell, it's hard for me to really viscerally remember what that feels like.) I think that the "basic needs met" thing is a bit of a fallacy, though I suppose it depends on how you define it. If you have a steady job that pays your bills and puts food on the table for you and your family, you might think you have your basic needs met, but also be stressed out because you don't feel like you have enough time in the day to split between your job, family, friends, and hobbies. Or you might feel anxiety over job security. Even having a full year of salary in the bank as a buffer (hardly rich by conventional measures, though sadly most people can't manage this) can ease those worries greatly. His comments on fuck-you money were a bit weird, too. I think most people get that fuck-you money isn't about being able to literally say "fuck you; fire me if you want" to your boss when you don't like a decision he/she has made. It's just about being able to easily walk away from a job that doesn't make you happy -- for whatever reason -- without the pressure of needing to find another one immediately. And then there was the bit about having to hire people to do things for you, and manage your money and possessions, and how all that is a full time job... well, no, it isn't a big deal, if you don't go down the conspicuous-consumption route. I don't have to hire people to take care of my things now, and having more money wouldn't magically make that a necessity (or even desirable).
holri 10y ago
A dishwasher and travel bookings are not basic necessities. When I had no money I did not have a dishwasher at all, but washed by hand. My travels where in the woods nearby, very relaxing and enjoy full at no cost at all. No booking required. Reading stoic philosophy help me a lot more than money.
- anothercomment 10y ago
  That's why I mentioned it - even beyond basic necessities, money can help a lot in daily life. That is, it can make a lot of worries go away. Washing by hand is great, but if you are a family of four, it will also cost a lot of time. In that sense a dishwasher is not really a luxury. It saves time, therefore it is a sensible investment. We don't have that many woods nearby, either. There are some, but they serve a whole city of 3 Million people and their dogs, so they tend to be very overcrowded. We go there frequently, but it is not the answer to everything. Yes, we won't die if we don't travel. Nevertheless, with kids you want to show them at least something. And just visiting grandparents with a family of four sets us back several hundred €. We don't die if we don't visit the grandparents, but it also doesn't seem like overindulgence to occasionally visit them. There are articles out there, btw, on how poor people have to spend more on everything. For example they can't afford to travel to the cheap shops, so they have to buy in the expensive shops near their home. Counter-intuitive things like that.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  Maybe not, but having, say, $100k in the bank does resolve a menial amount of issues that are not worth thinking about. Do I want to think about buying a dishwasher? Not really. Do I want to do the dishes by hand? Not really either. If you want to read stoic philosophy, having basic things like a dishwasher will save you hours. That's the only reason why I would get one: less time wasted on things I don't like.
  - tudorw 10y ago
    This is not directed at you personally, an open question if you like, so, what is not to like about washing dishes? What is it that you do like doing? Would that still be enjoyable if you spent ALL your time doing that ? Perhaps happiness is as likely found in a stack of clean plates as a Pilates class...
charlesdm 10y ago
$5m dollar, if you invest it well, will allow you to live a free life. The stock market on average returns 7-8% per year. If you aim for 5%, that's $250k per year right there. You'll even pay a lower tax rate on those gains. To me, a rich life means living well, doing what you love, but not working too hard. Unless you're spending extravagantly, what can't you do with $250k per year? There always going to be a guy who has $10m, or $50m, or $100m
- anothercomment 10y ago
  Yes it is sufficient money, but a well to-do pensioner will also have more than a million, although they might not be aware of it because they only receive monthly payments. I wouldn't really count on those stock market returns, either. And I don't think you get 5% for guaranteed investments these days.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    If you bank $5m today, just wait for the crash in the coming years and buy in once the market has declined 30-40%. Not unrealistic you'll be able to double your money instead of achieving the 7% return. Your lifestyle will probably not have adjusted to that "new money" anyway, so you can afford to wait. Nothing in life is guaranteed, and there are still opportunities out there. Whether it's passive (stock market investing) or active (running a business, albeit more relaxed). You do need to enjoy investing and taking charge of your money, though.
    - jjeaff 10y ago
      Oh yes, time the market... That works so well for so many.
      - charlesdm 10y ago
        Short term, no. Long term, you can always expect a crash. There's always an economic cycle. The market has been in bull mode for nearly 9 years mainly due to QE and asset inflation. The house will come crashing down at some point. Would you put $5m to work in the public markets? I personally wouldn't, but feel free to do so.
Existenceblinks 10y ago
I don't disagree or agree. Does basic necessities include being valued in particular value system? That's bigger issue to me. What if you tell people that your lifestyle makes you happy and the rest of society disagree? So can we say fuck society, and not a part of that society anymore? Human are social animals, right? I know, when you don't eat for a while, of course your physical cells can't survive it. But basic necessities things aren't necessary what affect our biological body but also souls.
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Re your example. Buying fruit: the supermarket makes sure you can't compare prices easily, meaning they can do an offer to try and establish a buying trend. So i have to spend more time working out which fruit are most cost effective, just to save a few pence. Things have eased a bit, just having £100 more a month makes an incredible difference, reducing a lot of stresses that come through penny-pinching.

kelnos 10y ago

Agreed, this article really rang hollow to me. I think part of it is that (as he admits), he has/had a lot of self-esteem/self-worth issues, and his (monetary) wealth got mixed in with that. Because of that, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks at money with a negative bias ("having money made me feel worse because it didn't fix my self-worth issues, so it must be bad") to some extent. I wouldn't call myself rich, but I also don't need to worry too much about money for the moment. That means I don't have to make a budget, fret over whether or not I should pay more for a flight with a more convenient itinerary, or be constantly anxious over whether or not I'd be able to pay for medical bills if I unexpectedly injured myself or got very ill. There are so many people in this world that don't have that comfort, and I think it's very easy to forget what that feels like once you've achieved a certain amount of wealth. (Hell, it's hard for me to really viscerally remember what that feels like.) I think that the "basic needs met" thing is a bit of a fallacy, though I suppose it depends on how you define it. If you have a steady job that pays your bills and puts food on the table for you and your family, you might think you have your basic needs met, but also be stressed out because you don't feel like you have enough time in the day to split between your job, family, friends, and hobbies. Or you might feel anxiety over job security. Even having a full year of salary in the bank as a buffer (hardly rich by conventional measures, though sadly most people can't manage this) can ease those worries greatly. His comments on fuck-you money were a bit weird, too. I think most people get that fuck-you money isn't about being able to literally say "fuck you; fire me if you want" to your boss when you don't like a decision he/she has made. It's just about being able to easily walk away from a job that doesn't make you happy -- for whatever reason -- without the pressure of needing to find another one immediately. And then there was the bit about having to hire people to do things for you, and manage your money and possessions, and how all that is a full time job... well, no, it isn't a big deal, if you don't go down the conspicuous-consumption route. I don't have to hire people to take care of my things now, and having more money wouldn't magically make that a necessity (or even desirable).

holri 10y ago

A dishwasher and travel bookings are not basic necessities. When I had no money I did not have a dishwasher at all, but washed by hand. My travels where in the woods nearby, very relaxing and enjoy full at no cost at all. No booking required. Reading stoic philosophy help me a lot more than money.

anothercomment 10y ago
That's why I mentioned it - even beyond basic necessities, money can help a lot in daily life. That is, it can make a lot of worries go away. Washing by hand is great, but if you are a family of four, it will also cost a lot of time. In that sense a dishwasher is not really a luxury. It saves time, therefore it is a sensible investment. We don't have that many woods nearby, either. There are some, but they serve a whole city of 3 Million people and their dogs, so they tend to be very overcrowded. We go there frequently, but it is not the answer to everything. Yes, we won't die if we don't travel. Nevertheless, with kids you want to show them at least something. And just visiting grandparents with a family of four sets us back several hundred €. We don't die if we don't visit the grandparents, but it also doesn't seem like overindulgence to occasionally visit them. There are articles out there, btw, on how poor people have to spend more on everything. For example they can't afford to travel to the cheap shops, so they have to buy in the expensive shops near their home. Counter-intuitive things like that.
charlesdm 10y ago
Maybe not, but having, say, $100k in the bank does resolve a menial amount of issues that are not worth thinking about. Do I want to think about buying a dishwasher? Not really. Do I want to do the dishes by hand? Not really either. If you want to read stoic philosophy, having basic things like a dishwasher will save you hours. That's the only reason why I would get one: less time wasted on things I don't like.
- tudorw 10y ago
  This is not directed at you personally, an open question if you like, so, what is not to like about washing dishes? What is it that you do like doing? Would that still be enjoyable if you spent ALL your time doing that ? Perhaps happiness is as likely found in a stack of clean plates as a Pilates class...

charlesdm 10y ago

$5m dollar, if you invest it well, will allow you to live a free life. The stock market on average returns 7-8% per year. If you aim for 5%, that's $250k per year right there. You'll even pay a lower tax rate on those gains. To me, a rich life means living well, doing what you love, but not working too hard. Unless you're spending extravagantly, what can't you do with $250k per year? There always going to be a guy who has $10m, or $50m, or $100m

anothercomment 10y ago
Yes it is sufficient money, but a well to-do pensioner will also have more than a million, although they might not be aware of it because they only receive monthly payments. I wouldn't really count on those stock market returns, either. And I don't think you get 5% for guaranteed investments these days.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  If you bank $5m today, just wait for the crash in the coming years and buy in once the market has declined 30-40%. Not unrealistic you'll be able to double your money instead of achieving the 7% return. Your lifestyle will probably not have adjusted to that "new money" anyway, so you can afford to wait. Nothing in life is guaranteed, and there are still opportunities out there. Whether it's passive (stock market investing) or active (running a business, albeit more relaxed). You do need to enjoy investing and taking charge of your money, though.
  - jjeaff 10y ago
    Oh yes, time the market... That works so well for so many.
    - charlesdm 10y ago
      Short term, no. Long term, you can always expect a crash. There's always an economic cycle. The market has been in bull mode for nearly 9 years mainly due to QE and asset inflation. The house will come crashing down at some point. Would you put $5m to work in the public markets? I personally wouldn't, but feel free to do so.

Existenceblinks 10y ago

I don't disagree or agree. Does basic necessities include being valued in particular value system? That's bigger issue to me. What if you tell people that your lifestyle makes you happy and the rest of society disagree? So can we say fuck society, and not a part of that society anymore? Human are social animals, right? I know, when you don't eat for a while, of course your physical cells can't survive it. But basic necessities things aren't necessary what affect our biological body but also souls.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

Re your example. Buying fruit: the supermarket makes sure you can't compare prices easily, meaning they can do an offer to try and establish a buying trend. So i have to spend more time working out which fruit are most cost effective, just to save a few pence. Things have eased a bit, just having £100 more a month makes an incredible difference, reducing a lot of stresses that come through penny-pinching.