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I was a multi-millionaire by 27–here's what I learned

103 points by kschua 10y ago

jankotek 10y ago
> It's really challenging being wealthy. Approach with caution.
sudhirj 10y ago
Was expecting a humblebrag puffpiece, but there is a lot of experience there worth sharing. Dealing with friends / family, self worth / image / confidence, investing, the luxury treadmill were all quite interesting and thought provoking.
- the_cat_kittles 10y ago
  yea i really liked the tone. its tough not to piss people off when you complain about being rich, but he does it in the right way, not too melodramatic, and very matter of fact.
askafriend 10y ago
It sounds like a fun challenge. Someone sign me up please. The average downsides of wealth are far better than the average downsides of being poor. I understand where this article is coming from though and it does a good job of making the point it intends to.
- donkeyd 10y ago
  I went from being in a 'poor' household to being above average, but not rich by any standards. Luckily, poor in the Netherlands is not the same as poor in the US, also, my parents knew how to handle money quite well, so we managed. A lot of my neightbours, however did not. I've seen what being poor does to health. What it does to behavior towards others, who seem to 'have more', but just spend it differently. What it does to expectations and opportunities of their children. I'm sure that money doesn't make you happy, it often does make you happier than being in the exact same situation without money.
palerdot 10y ago
>I have a very strong impression that what defines how much money or income anyone has is almost completely defined by their limiting beliefs. This one really struck me. Repeatedly this point comes up in all the new age money related philosophies, and I'm kind of starting to agree with it. Nice write up.
- tomfitz 10y ago
  > new age money related philosophies Do you have any links relating to this?
  - palerdot 10y ago
    I was having something like "The 4 hour workweek" in my mind when I was referring that. You can see this same point in different forms in that book. Edit: Another tangential stuff is Paul Graham's essay on wealth - http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html. There he specifically mentions that money is not wealth, but something used to move wealth. But the point about there is no fixed wealth and we can always create more wealth, also looks similar to the above mentioned point to me.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  Try telling that to the homeless guys I pass on my way to work every morning. Especially the one guy who can barely talk; I don't think what he believes matters at this point in his life. Maybe, if he believes in his ability to overcome being homeless and unable to speak, one day he'll find that his life is turning around. But to suggest that the amount of money he "has" is limited only by his belief is absurd.
  - RangerScience 10y ago
    Huh. Actually, I would bet money on that kinda working, if you could actually convince him? Remember when that one guy in New York, I think it was, gave a homeless guy a deal: money now, or programming lessons - and they made an app, and the app made money... that the guy couldn't collect because he couldn't get a bank account because he couldn't Deal with going into the government offices to get an identity? Or that thing that happens when you give someone who's been homeless for awhile an apartment and they camp out in the apartment like they were still on the street? It's like... min(x, y, z). It makes sense that belief does not get you money, but it also makes sense the lack of belief leads to lack of money. I'm not saying that everyone is in that boat. That is definitely not the case. But I would say that most people are in that boat. There's also a big difference in if the boat has three off-board motors and a Jacuzzi, or paddle... But if you don't believe there's someplace worth going that you can get to...?
SloopJon 10y ago
From the end of the article: "This article originally appeared on Medium." https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-learned-7df8153f5425 https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-learne...
- iokevins 10y ago
  Second the suggestion to move original link, from CNBC, to Medium. The former has added a number of CNBC content ad links which the author didn't seem to have in the Medium source.
rl3 10y ago
I love how the author bears resemblance to Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley—even warning the reader of the perils involved in buying exotic sports cars.
fiftyacorn 10y ago
The section "Most financial advisors know nothing" made me laugh
Johnny555 10y ago
I have become aware that I tend to worry about not having enough money in the future, and that this fear has been with me all of my life. Less affluent people have that same fear, the difference being that "in the future" can mean next year, next month, or even tomorrow. While wealthy people may worry that they won't be able to keep up their lifestyle forever, they know that they will still be able to buy food and shelter (and medical care) even if they lose nearly all of their wealth.
- RangerScience 10y ago
  I think the point he's trying to make is that that emotion doesn't go away just because it should. This isn't about what's actually going on, it's about what's being felt. Comparative suffering is really only suitable for comedic flirting.
madmax108 10y ago
This is so contrastingly similar (yup, that's a phrase) with an equally thought provoking set of tweets notch put up a couple of months after selling minecraft: "The problem with getting everything is you run out of reasons to keep trying, and human interaction becomes impossible due to imbalance. In sweden, I will sit around and wait for my friends with jobs and families to have time to do shit, watching my reflection in the monitor When we sold the company, the biggest effort went into making sure the employees got taken care of, and they all hate me now. Found a great girl, but she's afraid of me and my life style and went with a normal person instead. I would Musk and try to save the world, but that just exposes me to the same type of assholes that made me sell minecraft again People who made sudden success are telling me this is normal and will pass. That's good to know! I guess I'll take a shower then!" Really puts a light on the whole, money will make you happy spin that so many technologists seem to have fallen into. References: https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408
- wolfgke 10y ago
  Nice find. I personally claim that I am aware of much more really deep mathematics and programming problems that I would love to solve than I have lifetime. Using this money to fund a company to implement all these ideas (without investors on the tail) sounds like a quite fun idea to me. So I personally believe that the problem that notch describes (in particular "The problem with getting everything is you run out of reasons to keep trying") would only exist in a strongly reduced version if I became a billionaire.
- jfoutz 10y ago
  I hope notch pulls a jk Rowling, creates a pseudonym and makes another game. Minecraft alpha was fun. Quirky weird and awesome. I like to think notch was happy building that. He could start another, and cultivate a community. If it sucks (the pressure), open source it. Or whatever, it's his life, and I wish him all the best.
vcool07 10y ago
While i don't necessarily agree with the overall dystopian tone of this article (almost a version of - richest person in the room is also the saddest one), I have to agree on some of the points. Below is my take on this : 1. Having more money does present you with complications. You can't just keep it in a Savings account and ignore it. You just can't , especially for long periods of time. This adds a significant amount of stress, much more than you would've imagined ! 2. You start making investments (good and bad). With bad, you learn a lesson and move on. With good, you again go back to the first point. 3. Worst problem is when you invest in expensive/market-risk assets (Ex:a house). After your purchase, if the market goes bad/you don't want to maintain it etc., it becomes a burden like no other. There are many a sleepless nights to be had in anticipation of the outcome. 4. I've a friend who goes to a 9-5 job, stays in a rented house, has a small piece of land he has bought as an investment for his old days, and spends most of his free time watching movies (basically doing what he likes). He doesn't have a fancy car (he actually doesn't have any car), or a fancy house, but he seems quite happy with what he has. That's the crux of the article I presume ?
- gutnor 10y ago
  1. You definitively can leave all your money on a saving account. The worst that happens to it in the first world is inflation eating it away which really isn't going to make a practical difference on a few millions. That's like the cost of a cleaner to clean your house. 2-3. That's self-made problems. You don't need to make that kind of investment unless you want your job to become "investor". In any case a lot of the more traditional investment like real estate have countless middlemen to take the stress out of it. 4. That is something you can definitively do with a lot of money too. I know people that retired just after Uni or later in life and did just that. This is an attitude problem. It is very common here on HN or in the tech community in general, even the one with 9-5 jobs. The obsession to make every minute of your time productive, self-convincing yourself that's what you really want to do or that you must do it in order to stay relevant is destroying a lot of people. Unlike the lawyer, doctor, ... the tech community is its own enemy. The other communities tries to get the member to cope with the pressure, the tech one openly encourage it: "So your brain surgeon is not volunteering as a knee surgeon nurse over the weekend to extend his skill and does not run mental health practice in the evening as a hobby business ? What a loser."
petard 10y ago
The content ads in the article like "Rich people use these 6 mental tricks to make more money" or "How rich people save" are kind of funny - and sad at the same time.
anothercomment 10y ago
He mentions the "basic necessities being taken care of", but I just want to mention again that a certain amount of money can make a surprising amount of problems go away. I don't think that aspect should be underestimated. As I am scrambling by these days, I often run into these problems. For example recently our dishwasher broke down. I spent a lot of time deciding whether to get it repaired or buy a new one, and then researching the latter. With money I would have saved lots of time by simply buying a medium priced new one off the internet. Health issues, accommodation, travel plans, lots of worries can go away and they wear down people who don't have the cash. For example we often stress out about travel plans because we have to book far in advance or it gets too expensive. (I know these sound like luxury problems, but when it is a strain on the marriage it can escalate into real problems quickly). On the other hand, it seems a lot of people feel rich when they aren't yet. For example, 5 Million $ doesn't seem that rich to me, more like a slightly higher pension prospect. I have friends in the tech industry who have some money (not super rich) and take it slow, not taking into account that one day their needs might change and they might suddenly need a lot more money, and have less opportunities to earn it (for example because they get a family, or health issues).
- kelnos 10y ago
  Agreed, this article really rang hollow to me. I think part of it is that (as he admits), he has/had a lot of self-esteem/self-worth issues, and his (monetary) wealth got mixed in with that. Because of that, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks at money with a negative bias ("having money made me feel worse because it didn't fix my self-worth issues, so it must be bad") to some extent. I wouldn't call myself rich, but I also don't need to worry too much about money for the moment. That means I don't have to make a budget, fret over whether or not I should pay more for a flight with a more convenient itinerary, or be constantly anxious over whether or not I'd be able to pay for medical bills if I unexpectedly injured myself or got very ill. There are so many people in this world that don't have that comfort, and I think it's very easy to forget what that feels like once you've achieved a certain amount of wealth. (Hell, it's hard for me to really viscerally remember what that feels like.) I think that the "basic needs met" thing is a bit of a fallacy, though I suppose it depends on how you define it. If you have a steady job that pays your bills and puts food on the table for you and your family, you might think you have your basic needs met, but also be stressed out because you don't feel like you have enough time in the day to split between your job, family, friends, and hobbies. Or you might feel anxiety over job security. Even having a full year of salary in the bank as a buffer (hardly rich by conventional measures, though sadly most people can't manage this) can ease those worries greatly. His comments on fuck-you money were a bit weird, too. I think most people get that fuck-you money isn't about being able to literally say "fuck you; fire me if you want" to your boss when you don't like a decision he/she has made. It's just about being able to easily walk away from a job that doesn't make you happy -- for whatever reason -- without the pressure of needing to find another one immediately. And then there was the bit about having to hire people to do things for you, and manage your money and possessions, and how all that is a full time job... well, no, it isn't a big deal, if you don't go down the conspicuous-consumption route. I don't have to hire people to take care of my things now, and having more money wouldn't magically make that a necessity (or even desirable).
sametmax 10y ago
So he learned literally all bottom lines from all holywood movies about wealth ever ? Kudos man. I'm glad it took 5M$ to get you to that point. I paid a netflix fee for the same result but hey, tomato...
- eloisant 10y ago
  I think the point is that many people repeat "money doesn't make you happy" as a cliché but deep down they feel like they'll finally be happy if they had a little more money, and becoming multi-millionnaire will get them to perfect happiness. He is sharing personal stories how "money doesn't make you happy" is not just some Christian philosophy or Hollywood movies cliché, it's actually true.
  - croon 10y ago
    > He is sharing personal stories how "money doesn't make you happy" is not just some Christian philosophy or Hollywood movies cliché, it's actually true. Except it's true for the exact reasons portrayed in Hollywood movies. And it's a cliché because it neglects the very real fact that money removes obstacles faced by a significant chunk of the poorer population. That you happen to (still) be sad after you get money doesn't negate the great benefit money would have to people who are already happy (or sad) without it. Let me put it this way: You are rich and sad; your options for fixing that are contained in X. You are poor and sad; your options for fixing that are contained in X-Y, where Y requires money. Or time, which you can buy.
- anothercomment 10y ago
  Hm, I don't trust those Hollywood movies. They are always about how money doesn't make you happy, but the producers are probably laughing about the poor people paying for the movie tickets all the way to the bank. So essentially movies made by rich people to teach the poor masses not to be envious.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    The point is not saying movies are a good source of information. Just that the guy is stating the obvious. We all know that money don't make you happy. We all know that not having enough money will make your life difficult. We all know having enough money will make your life simpler. We all know that human relations get twisted with money. No point in writing an article that is just the clone of most movies/songs/books about people getting rich.
saiya-jin 10y ago
he describes essentially the problems and pains of 'new rich'. 'old rich' approach is different - have managers (concierge) of their wealth, of their lives, so they don't bear the burden of caring and managing the wealth in any way, only enjoying spending it. maybe it's more european thing vs US, don't know. that said, most wealthy people and their lives are quite pathetic. deep issues inside, some described very well in the article (you basically don't have true friends, or if you have you can't distinguish them). boring easy life without adventures and intensity. kids often spoiled beyond belief since they had super easy life without proper challenges (which is the only way to build some good strong character). if not spoiled, many are at least entitled a__holes. generally most descendants don't have the skills of their predecessors who earned the wealth. yes they can drive around in their ferraris (great car for urban traffic), drink champagne on their boats and attend luxurious parties all the time. I have not seen a single person get truly long-term happy from it, confirmed by some people who are closer to these types. definitely would not change my life with any of those. mountains and occasional backpacking around the world is enough to keep one happy for whole life.
behnamoh 10y ago
This coming from the guy who's already rich. I doubt he had the same opinions before he got rich.
- nagyf 10y ago
  Yeah, that's the point of the whole post, you know. It tells you what is it like to be rich, which most people won't be, ever.
- rustynails77 10y ago
  That's true. If he did, he wouldn't be sharing his lessons. Thank you to everyone who has shared their stores. I have thoroughly enjoyed hearing people's perspectives here. Too often today, we think everyone else has it good and that's just not true. Everyone has challenges. I would love for more people would realise that.
1ba9115454 10y ago
TLDR The best things in life are free.
pipio21 10y ago
I was never into luxury cars, with the exception of a Tesla that I love I bought because I was interested in the technology more than in the car itself. But I always dreamed about having a good yacht so after selling my first company I bought one. The person who sold it to me joked about two greatest days of owning a yacht: the day you buy it, the day you sell it. I did not understand at the time the second part deeply. But it did not take too long. The thing was a pain in the ass. Turns out the more beautiful the yacht, the more maintenance it needs, the bigger problems it has, the weaker it is against the elements and the bigger the storage you need to use, the more people it needs. After a while I realized instead of giving me happiness it was giving me frustration, anger and pain. Instead of me owning this thing it was the opposite, the thing owning lots of my time and money. In the end I just sold the thing and I felt like 100 kgs(200pounds) were taken off my shoulders and it was an amazing moment. In the future if I need sailing I will lend it instead. Being wealthy could be a trap. It is a good thing to have some psychological training first and prepare. Also learn about investing your own money, never trust others with your money, specially if they are the experts.
- buzzybee 10y ago
  I already feel burdened by electronic gadgets, so there's little hope in me caring about having a car or yacht. I'm not exactly a minimalist, but I have discovered that the "experiences not possessions" news trope does apply well to me. It helped that I started thinking about all things in terms of planning a design(what I'm doing and how) before buying anything. Besides making better decisions, it stops a lot of impulse buys. Usually the act of making the design tells me what I need to know, and possible alternatives. And the real bottleneck is often a skill I need to learn, not anything to do with money.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  Not sure where I read this, but you're better off chartering something if you are unsure whether you'd like it (e.g. to try it out). I have a friend, and his family owns a pretty large yacht. Finding a suitable and capable skipper that will stick around (e.g. more than a year or two) has often been a major source of frustration for them.
Kenji 10y ago
>Most financial advisors know nothing I worked at a bank and can confirm. Most financial advisors even lack the basic math skills, they can do linear functions if they are above average. Needless to say, I'm outta there and in tech now. Just do your homework and decide what to do with your money yourself. You'll save time and lots of money.
ensiferum 10y ago
Boohoo... poor you. Sorry no sympathy.
tudorw 10y ago
Not much patronage mentioned, if you have the cash and are lacking inner beauty, why not find an auteur, artist, student, anyone who will create beauty and bring joy, throw money at it joyfully and if you are lucky you are creating cultural wealth and financial opportunity for others. Commission some art, buy your own orchestra! (Email address in profile... ;)
andrewclunn 10y ago
"Limiting beliefs" eh? God damn, I hate how wealthy people love their therapists so much and all need some simple dogma or narrative to explain their success. Though I guess I see poor people doing the same with finding externalized reasons for their lack of success.
sundvor 10y ago
"Deeply enjoying whatever it is you're experiencing right now is the ultimate wealth." This. Finances are currently a struggle for me, and work hasn't been all easy either, however I still have the ability to deeply enjoy whatever I'm doing - not all the time, but often enough that I feel happy in light of everything. I feel a sense of gratitude* for that. *) http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/
d--b 10y ago
Well, this is more about what the OP unlearned. He has yet to learn how to live with moeny, now that he's kind of stuck with it. I have some very wealthy friends who do not fit that pattern at all. They know what to do with their money (and no it's not about buying luxury cars). They know how to keep a sense of purpose in their lives. They know how to keep healthy relationships despite the money imbalance. What's interesting is what comes AFTER the realization that money doesn't buy everything. It still buys you a lot of freedom, the question is what you do with that!
noam87 10y ago
You know how these articles never end? "So I've decided to give away all my riches to the less fortunate and go back to scraping by for a living like everyone else." Give me a break. Don't like managing your wealth? Just let it sit in your bank account (after all, it doesn't really matter that much if it grows or not right?). Don't like mistrusting people? Live a humble lifestyle and there's no reason they'd ever suspect you're wealthy. I've met plenty flip-flop and $10 shirt millionaires. Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy. I openly say that this would probably something that is to me very far away from giving a purpose - quite the opposite. Perhaps because I am a nerd and charities typically "do something social involving humans", while I think all the time when, say, teaching children from disadvantaged background (just an arbitrary example) of how one can scale the impact by a factor of 10 (or if this is too simple) by 100 - for example using modern technology. So my hints for finding a purpose: 1. Study mathematics: So many hard, important and unsolved problems to solve - many of them having a deep impact on humanity if someone would tackle and solve them. 2. Learn programming and solve deep problems that you find. For those for which 1 is too hardcore. This is HN, so I hope I don't have to write anything further about this. 3. If you still into charities, found one that has "how can we scale our impact by a factor of 10 as soon as possible" in mind all the time instead of "doing something social with humans" (no experience with this, though, but this is the only kind of charity that I can imagine having fun working at).
ddalex 10y ago
Cicero - the famed roman author - explained very clearly the difference between being wealthy and not. The wealthy are able to control how they spend their time. The not wealthy have somebody else control what they do with their time. The Romans had a word for the time period that you control - 'otium'. It was the ideal state for the Roman nobleman, as they were supposed to have enough income coming from their properties so that they don't have to work out for it. The time that you didn't control was the opposite state of 'otium': 'negotium'. It's more than just a matter of how much money you have and your believes. Having more money lends you a greater power to bargain on what you do with your time. Personally, I have enough of a rainy day fund so I am not compelled to stick around a job I don't like. But I still have to go to a job each day, and I feel really lucky that I can choose a job that I like. The vast majority of people are not as fortunate as myself.
mattfrommars 10y ago
I've noticed something which I refuse to believe might be the case. I rather deny the fact then accept it around the people I am with because if I accept it, I feel I don't know what I'm doing in my life and all might have been a lie. I've been living in a developing country [my home country] after moving away from a the first world country for family reason. As a 25 year old, introvert and someone who has social anxiety without ever knowing it, I just can't understand what is happiness. I have observed people out in the street, at stores, at restaurants just doing their jobs and happy. They laugh and go to small parties and look as if content. This observation was made even by a working at a small local company which wasn't much that people just worked. They did not have any desire to make more money as to gain skills. It boggles my mind they just 'keep churning'. They go back to their home living with family and come back, rinse on repeat. Even small shops, really small shops/restaurants who might think they need money to survive, they don't have any real check and balance. It's literally "I want this". You go off someone else where the cook might be, you pick up it up after it's done and you head back to the cashier. The cashier doesn't have any idea what I ordered, the quantity or anything. There is possibility just walk away without paying. Whereas what I believe at the moment, I need skills and wealth to achieve happiness. I sometimes question, am I even unhappy? Yes I'm unhappy because I don't have a career, I don't have a home, I don't wealth etc. But in reality, the way families work here, they want everyone to live under the same roof, making small amount of money to 'run the kitchen', share family car. Why seek an independent life when all the needs can be provided by entire families working together. I fear the life I'm striving for might lead to loneliness. I.e moving away from my home, starting a career, moving to a different country from developing to develop, getting into corporate life and eventually becoming wealthy. In my eyes, I would feel I'm the most successful with most money in the bank, but what would other think?
dkns 10y ago
"In fact, wealth can actually make life worse. We can use wealth to distract us from our deeper issues by spending money on things we don't need, or worrying about losing our wealth." You'll have those 'deeper issues' when you're poor as well. The difference will be you'll be anxious because you won't be sure if you'll have the money for all of your bills or you'll have enough to feed your family and not worrying if you can afford next luxury car. I see blogs/articles like this pop from time to time. A rich guy (who probably didn't ever experience in his life how it's like to be poor) saying "being rich isn't a solution to all of your life problems". Well, I'm sure it isn't, being rich doesn't equal being content in life, but it sure as hell beats being poor.
nunez 10y ago
On one hand, I appreciate the insight and advice from people much wealthier than me on how being wealthy isn't as cracked up as it's made out to be. On the other hand, they are wealthier than me and can say that. I can't. It is difficult to take their advice at face value because of it. I think that the only two solutions to this problem are (1) Fore-go wanting to become wealthy and being content with what you have, or (2) Try to attain enough wealth to see for yourself whether the sacrifices made were worth it. If staying where you're at doesn't seem right to you, then you're only option is door (2). To be clear, I don't think that doing everything you can to make more cash is the right way to go. From what I've seen, it is very difficult to attain massive amounts of wealth without getting in really early on a business opportunity that rocket ships. I think having core values (i.e things you cannot give up) helps. But if the expected reaction from reading this piece is "Well, being rich doesn't sound much better than having to worry about money all of the time, so I guess I'll just keep working at okay salary levels until I retire 60 years from now," then I can't feel ok with that. That's where my head's at right now.

103 points by kschua 10y ago

> It's really challenging being wealthy. Approach with caution.

Was expecting a humblebrag puffpiece, but there is a lot of experience there worth sharing. Dealing with friends / family, self worth / image / confidence, investing, the luxury treadmill were all quite interesting and thought provoking.

the_cat_kittles 10y ago
yea i really liked the tone. its tough not to piss people off when you complain about being rich, but he does it in the right way, not too melodramatic, and very matter of fact.

askafriend 10y ago

It sounds like a fun challenge. Someone sign me up please. The average downsides of wealth are far better than the average downsides of being poor. I understand where this article is coming from though and it does a good job of making the point it intends to.

donkeyd 10y ago
I went from being in a 'poor' household to being above average, but not rich by any standards. Luckily, poor in the Netherlands is not the same as poor in the US, also, my parents knew how to handle money quite well, so we managed. A lot of my neightbours, however did not. I've seen what being poor does to health. What it does to behavior towards others, who seem to 'have more', but just spend it differently. What it does to expectations and opportunities of their children. I'm sure that money doesn't make you happy, it often does make you happier than being in the exact same situation without money.

palerdot 10y ago

>I have a very strong impression that what defines how much money or income anyone has is almost completely defined by their limiting beliefs. This one really struck me. Repeatedly this point comes up in all the new age money related philosophies, and I'm kind of starting to agree with it. Nice write up.

tomfitz 10y ago
> new age money related philosophies Do you have any links relating to this?
- palerdot 10y ago
  I was having something like "The 4 hour workweek" in my mind when I was referring that. You can see this same point in different forms in that book. Edit: Another tangential stuff is Paul Graham's essay on wealth - http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html. There he specifically mentions that money is not wealth, but something used to move wealth. But the point about there is no fixed wealth and we can always create more wealth, also looks similar to the above mentioned point to me.
nerdponx 10y ago
Try telling that to the homeless guys I pass on my way to work every morning. Especially the one guy who can barely talk; I don't think what he believes matters at this point in his life. Maybe, if he believes in his ability to overcome being homeless and unable to speak, one day he'll find that his life is turning around. But to suggest that the amount of money he "has" is limited only by his belief is absurd.
- RangerScience 10y ago
  Huh. Actually, I would bet money on that kinda working, if you could actually convince him? Remember when that one guy in New York, I think it was, gave a homeless guy a deal: money now, or programming lessons - and they made an app, and the app made money... that the guy couldn't collect because he couldn't get a bank account because he couldn't Deal with going into the government offices to get an identity? Or that thing that happens when you give someone who's been homeless for awhile an apartment and they camp out in the apartment like they were still on the street? It's like... min(x, y, z). It makes sense that belief does not get you money, but it also makes sense the lack of belief leads to lack of money. I'm not saying that everyone is in that boat. That is definitely not the case. But I would say that most people are in that boat. There's also a big difference in if the boat has three off-board motors and a Jacuzzi, or paddle... But if you don't believe there's someplace worth going that you can get to...?

SloopJon 10y ago

From the end of the article: "This article originally appeared on Medium." https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-learned-7df8153f5425 https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-learne...

iokevins 10y ago
Second the suggestion to move original link, from CNBC, to Medium. The former has added a number of CNBC content ad links which the author didn't seem to have in the Medium source.

rl3 10y ago

I love how the author bears resemblance to Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley—even warning the reader of the perils involved in buying exotic sports cars.

fiftyacorn 10y ago

The section "Most financial advisors know nothing" made me laugh

Johnny555 10y ago

I have become aware that I tend to worry about not having enough money in the future, and that this fear has been with me all of my life. Less affluent people have that same fear, the difference being that "in the future" can mean next year, next month, or even tomorrow. While wealthy people may worry that they won't be able to keep up their lifestyle forever, they know that they will still be able to buy food and shelter (and medical care) even if they lose nearly all of their wealth.

RangerScience 10y ago
I think the point he's trying to make is that that emotion doesn't go away just because it should. This isn't about what's actually going on, it's about what's being felt. Comparative suffering is really only suitable for comedic flirting.

madmax108 10y ago

This is so contrastingly similar (yup, that's a phrase) with an equally thought provoking set of tweets notch put up a couple of months after selling minecraft: "The problem with getting everything is you run out of reasons to keep trying, and human interaction becomes impossible due to imbalance. In sweden, I will sit around and wait for my friends with jobs and families to have time to do shit, watching my reflection in the monitor When we sold the company, the biggest effort went into making sure the employees got taken care of, and they all hate me now. Found a great girl, but she's afraid of me and my life style and went with a normal person instead. I would Musk and try to save the world, but that just exposes me to the same type of assholes that made me sell minecraft again People who made sudden success are telling me this is normal and will pass. That's good to know! I guess I'll take a shower then!" Really puts a light on the whole, money will make you happy spin that so many technologists seem to have fallen into. References: https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408 https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408

wolfgke 10y ago
Nice find. I personally claim that I am aware of much more really deep mathematics and programming problems that I would love to solve than I have lifetime. Using this money to fund a company to implement all these ideas (without investors on the tail) sounds like a quite fun idea to me. So I personally believe that the problem that notch describes (in particular "The problem with getting everything is you run out of reasons to keep trying") would only exist in a strongly reduced version if I became a billionaire.
jfoutz 10y ago
I hope notch pulls a jk Rowling, creates a pseudonym and makes another game. Minecraft alpha was fun. Quirky weird and awesome. I like to think notch was happy building that. He could start another, and cultivate a community. If it sucks (the pressure), open source it. Or whatever, it's his life, and I wish him all the best.

vcool07 10y ago

While i don't necessarily agree with the overall dystopian tone of this article (almost a version of - richest person in the room is also the saddest one), I have to agree on some of the points. Below is my take on this : 1. Having more money does present you with complications. You can't just keep it in a Savings account and ignore it. You just can't , especially for long periods of time. This adds a significant amount of stress, much more than you would've imagined ! 2. You start making investments (good and bad). With bad, you learn a lesson and move on. With good, you again go back to the first point. 3. Worst problem is when you invest in expensive/market-risk assets (Ex:a house). After your purchase, if the market goes bad/you don't want to maintain it etc., it becomes a burden like no other. There are many a sleepless nights to be had in anticipation of the outcome. 4. I've a friend who goes to a 9-5 job, stays in a rented house, has a small piece of land he has bought as an investment for his old days, and spends most of his free time watching movies (basically doing what he likes). He doesn't have a fancy car (he actually doesn't have any car), or a fancy house, but he seems quite happy with what he has. That's the crux of the article I presume ?

gutnor 10y ago
1. You definitively can leave all your money on a saving account. The worst that happens to it in the first world is inflation eating it away which really isn't going to make a practical difference on a few millions. That's like the cost of a cleaner to clean your house. 2-3. That's self-made problems. You don't need to make that kind of investment unless you want your job to become "investor". In any case a lot of the more traditional investment like real estate have countless middlemen to take the stress out of it. 4. That is something you can definitively do with a lot of money too. I know people that retired just after Uni or later in life and did just that. This is an attitude problem. It is very common here on HN or in the tech community in general, even the one with 9-5 jobs. The obsession to make every minute of your time productive, self-convincing yourself that's what you really want to do or that you must do it in order to stay relevant is destroying a lot of people. Unlike the lawyer, doctor, ... the tech community is its own enemy. The other communities tries to get the member to cope with the pressure, the tech one openly encourage it: "So your brain surgeon is not volunteering as a knee surgeon nurse over the weekend to extend his skill and does not run mental health practice in the evening as a hobby business ? What a loser."

petard 10y ago

The content ads in the article like "Rich people use these 6 mental tricks to make more money" or "How rich people save" are kind of funny - and sad at the same time.

anothercomment 10y ago

He mentions the "basic necessities being taken care of", but I just want to mention again that a certain amount of money can make a surprising amount of problems go away. I don't think that aspect should be underestimated. As I am scrambling by these days, I often run into these problems. For example recently our dishwasher broke down. I spent a lot of time deciding whether to get it repaired or buy a new one, and then researching the latter. With money I would have saved lots of time by simply buying a medium priced new one off the internet. Health issues, accommodation, travel plans, lots of worries can go away and they wear down people who don't have the cash. For example we often stress out about travel plans because we have to book far in advance or it gets too expensive. (I know these sound like luxury problems, but when it is a strain on the marriage it can escalate into real problems quickly). On the other hand, it seems a lot of people feel rich when they aren't yet. For example, 5 Million $ doesn't seem that rich to me, more like a slightly higher pension prospect. I have friends in the tech industry who have some money (not super rich) and take it slow, not taking into account that one day their needs might change and they might suddenly need a lot more money, and have less opportunities to earn it (for example because they get a family, or health issues).

kelnos 10y ago
Agreed, this article really rang hollow to me. I think part of it is that (as he admits), he has/had a lot of self-esteem/self-worth issues, and his (monetary) wealth got mixed in with that. Because of that, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks at money with a negative bias ("having money made me feel worse because it didn't fix my self-worth issues, so it must be bad") to some extent. I wouldn't call myself rich, but I also don't need to worry too much about money for the moment. That means I don't have to make a budget, fret over whether or not I should pay more for a flight with a more convenient itinerary, or be constantly anxious over whether or not I'd be able to pay for medical bills if I unexpectedly injured myself or got very ill. There are so many people in this world that don't have that comfort, and I think it's very easy to forget what that feels like once you've achieved a certain amount of wealth. (Hell, it's hard for me to really viscerally remember what that feels like.) I think that the "basic needs met" thing is a bit of a fallacy, though I suppose it depends on how you define it. If you have a steady job that pays your bills and puts food on the table for you and your family, you might think you have your basic needs met, but also be stressed out because you don't feel like you have enough time in the day to split between your job, family, friends, and hobbies. Or you might feel anxiety over job security. Even having a full year of salary in the bank as a buffer (hardly rich by conventional measures, though sadly most people can't manage this) can ease those worries greatly. His comments on fuck-you money were a bit weird, too. I think most people get that fuck-you money isn't about being able to literally say "fuck you; fire me if you want" to your boss when you don't like a decision he/she has made. It's just about being able to easily walk away from a job that doesn't make you happy -- for whatever reason -- without the pressure of needing to find another one immediately. And then there was the bit about having to hire people to do things for you, and manage your money and possessions, and how all that is a full time job... well, no, it isn't a big deal, if you don't go down the conspicuous-consumption route. I don't have to hire people to take care of my things now, and having more money wouldn't magically make that a necessity (or even desirable).

sametmax 10y ago

So he learned literally all bottom lines from all holywood movies about wealth ever ? Kudos man. I'm glad it took 5M$ to get you to that point. I paid a netflix fee for the same result but hey, tomato...

eloisant 10y ago
I think the point is that many people repeat "money doesn't make you happy" as a cliché but deep down they feel like they'll finally be happy if they had a little more money, and becoming multi-millionnaire will get them to perfect happiness. He is sharing personal stories how "money doesn't make you happy" is not just some Christian philosophy or Hollywood movies cliché, it's actually true.
- croon 10y ago
  > He is sharing personal stories how "money doesn't make you happy" is not just some Christian philosophy or Hollywood movies cliché, it's actually true. Except it's true for the exact reasons portrayed in Hollywood movies. And it's a cliché because it neglects the very real fact that money removes obstacles faced by a significant chunk of the poorer population. That you happen to (still) be sad after you get money doesn't negate the great benefit money would have to people who are already happy (or sad) without it. Let me put it this way: You are rich and sad; your options for fixing that are contained in X. You are poor and sad; your options for fixing that are contained in X-Y, where Y requires money. Or time, which you can buy.
anothercomment 10y ago
Hm, I don't trust those Hollywood movies. They are always about how money doesn't make you happy, but the producers are probably laughing about the poor people paying for the movie tickets all the way to the bank. So essentially movies made by rich people to teach the poor masses not to be envious.
- sametmax 10y ago
  The point is not saying movies are a good source of information. Just that the guy is stating the obvious. We all know that money don't make you happy. We all know that not having enough money will make your life difficult. We all know having enough money will make your life simpler. We all know that human relations get twisted with money. No point in writing an article that is just the clone of most movies/songs/books about people getting rich.

saiya-jin 10y ago

he describes essentially the problems and pains of 'new rich'. 'old rich' approach is different - have managers (concierge) of their wealth, of their lives, so they don't bear the burden of caring and managing the wealth in any way, only enjoying spending it. maybe it's more european thing vs US, don't know. that said, most wealthy people and their lives are quite pathetic. deep issues inside, some described very well in the article (you basically don't have true friends, or if you have you can't distinguish them). boring easy life without adventures and intensity. kids often spoiled beyond belief since they had super easy life without proper challenges (which is the only way to build some good strong character). if not spoiled, many are at least entitled a__holes. generally most descendants don't have the skills of their predecessors who earned the wealth. yes they can drive around in their ferraris (great car for urban traffic), drink champagne on their boats and attend luxurious parties all the time. I have not seen a single person get truly long-term happy from it, confirmed by some people who are closer to these types. definitely would not change my life with any of those. mountains and occasional backpacking around the world is enough to keep one happy for whole life.

behnamoh 10y ago

This coming from the guy who's already rich. I doubt he had the same opinions before he got rich.

nagyf 10y ago
Yeah, that's the point of the whole post, you know. It tells you what is it like to be rich, which most people won't be, ever.
rustynails77 10y ago
That's true. If he did, he wouldn't be sharing his lessons. Thank you to everyone who has shared their stores. I have thoroughly enjoyed hearing people's perspectives here. Too often today, we think everyone else has it good and that's just not true. Everyone has challenges. I would love for more people would realise that.

1ba9115454 10y ago

TLDR The best things in life are free.

pipio21 10y ago

I was never into luxury cars, with the exception of a Tesla that I love I bought because I was interested in the technology more than in the car itself. But I always dreamed about having a good yacht so after selling my first company I bought one. The person who sold it to me joked about two greatest days of owning a yacht: the day you buy it, the day you sell it. I did not understand at the time the second part deeply. But it did not take too long. The thing was a pain in the ass. Turns out the more beautiful the yacht, the more maintenance it needs, the bigger problems it has, the weaker it is against the elements and the bigger the storage you need to use, the more people it needs. After a while I realized instead of giving me happiness it was giving me frustration, anger and pain. Instead of me owning this thing it was the opposite, the thing owning lots of my time and money. In the end I just sold the thing and I felt like 100 kgs(200pounds) were taken off my shoulders and it was an amazing moment. In the future if I need sailing I will lend it instead. Being wealthy could be a trap. It is a good thing to have some psychological training first and prepare. Also learn about investing your own money, never trust others with your money, specially if they are the experts.

buzzybee 10y ago
I already feel burdened by electronic gadgets, so there's little hope in me caring about having a car or yacht. I'm not exactly a minimalist, but I have discovered that the "experiences not possessions" news trope does apply well to me. It helped that I started thinking about all things in terms of planning a design(what I'm doing and how) before buying anything. Besides making better decisions, it stops a lot of impulse buys. Usually the act of making the design tells me what I need to know, and possible alternatives. And the real bottleneck is often a skill I need to learn, not anything to do with money.
charlesdm 10y ago
Not sure where I read this, but you're better off chartering something if you are unsure whether you'd like it (e.g. to try it out). I have a friend, and his family owns a pretty large yacht. Finding a suitable and capable skipper that will stick around (e.g. more than a year or two) has often been a major source of frustration for them.

Kenji 10y ago

>Most financial advisors know nothing I worked at a bank and can confirm. Most financial advisors even lack the basic math skills, they can do linear functions if they are above average. Needless to say, I'm outta there and in tech now. Just do your homework and decide what to do with your money yourself. You'll save time and lots of money.

ensiferum 10y ago

Boohoo... poor you. Sorry no sympathy.

tudorw 10y ago

Not much patronage mentioned, if you have the cash and are lacking inner beauty, why not find an auteur, artist, student, anyone who will create beauty and bring joy, throw money at it joyfully and if you are lucky you are creating cultural wealth and financial opportunity for others. Commission some art, buy your own orchestra! (Email address in profile... ;)

andrewclunn 10y ago

"Limiting beliefs" eh? God damn, I hate how wealthy people love their therapists so much and all need some simple dogma or narrative to explain their success. Though I guess I see poor people doing the same with finding externalized reasons for their lack of success.

sundvor 10y ago

"Deeply enjoying whatever it is you're experiencing right now is the ultimate wealth." This. Finances are currently a struggle for me, and work hasn't been all easy either, however I still have the ability to deeply enjoy whatever I'm doing - not all the time, but often enough that I feel happy in light of everything. I feel a sense of gratitude* for that. *) http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/

d--b 10y ago

Well, this is more about what the OP unlearned. He has yet to learn how to live with moeny, now that he's kind of stuck with it. I have some very wealthy friends who do not fit that pattern at all. They know what to do with their money (and no it's not about buying luxury cars). They know how to keep a sense of purpose in their lives. They know how to keep healthy relationships despite the money imbalance. What's interesting is what comes AFTER the realization that money doesn't buy everything. It still buys you a lot of freedom, the question is what you do with that!

noam87 10y ago

You know how these articles never end? "So I've decided to give away all my riches to the less fortunate and go back to scraping by for a living like everyone else." Give me a break. Don't like managing your wealth? Just let it sit in your bank account (after all, it doesn't really matter that much if it grows or not right?). Don't like mistrusting people? Live a humble lifestyle and there's no reason they'd ever suspect you're wealthy. I've met plenty flip-flop and $10 shirt millionaires. Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy.

wolfgke 10y ago
> Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy. I openly say that this would probably something that is to me very far away from giving a purpose - quite the opposite. Perhaps because I am a nerd and charities typically "do something social involving humans", while I think all the time when, say, teaching children from disadvantaged background (just an arbitrary example) of how one can scale the impact by a factor of 10 (or if this is too simple) by 100 - for example using modern technology. So my hints for finding a purpose: 1. Study mathematics: So many hard, important and unsolved problems to solve - many of them having a deep impact on humanity if someone would tackle and solve them. 2. Learn programming and solve deep problems that you find. For those for which 1 is too hardcore. This is HN, so I hope I don't have to write anything further about this. 3. If you still into charities, found one that has "how can we scale our impact by a factor of 10 as soon as possible" in mind all the time instead of "doing something social with humans" (no experience with this, though, but this is the only kind of charity that I can imagine having fun working at).

ddalex 10y ago

Cicero - the famed roman author - explained very clearly the difference between being wealthy and not. The wealthy are able to control how they spend their time. The not wealthy have somebody else control what they do with their time. The Romans had a word for the time period that you control - 'otium'. It was the ideal state for the Roman nobleman, as they were supposed to have enough income coming from their properties so that they don't have to work out for it. The time that you didn't control was the opposite state of 'otium': 'negotium'. It's more than just a matter of how much money you have and your believes. Having more money lends you a greater power to bargain on what you do with your time. Personally, I have enough of a rainy day fund so I am not compelled to stick around a job I don't like. But I still have to go to a job each day, and I feel really lucky that I can choose a job that I like. The vast majority of people are not as fortunate as myself.

mattfrommars 10y ago

I've noticed something which I refuse to believe might be the case. I rather deny the fact then accept it around the people I am with because if I accept it, I feel I don't know what I'm doing in my life and all might have been a lie. I've been living in a developing country [my home country] after moving away from a the first world country for family reason. As a 25 year old, introvert and someone who has social anxiety without ever knowing it, I just can't understand what is happiness. I have observed people out in the street, at stores, at restaurants just doing their jobs and happy. They laugh and go to small parties and look as if content. This observation was made even by a working at a small local company which wasn't much that people just worked. They did not have any desire to make more money as to gain skills. It boggles my mind they just 'keep churning'. They go back to their home living with family and come back, rinse on repeat. Even small shops, really small shops/restaurants who might think they need money to survive, they don't have any real check and balance. It's literally "I want this". You go off someone else where the cook might be, you pick up it up after it's done and you head back to the cashier. The cashier doesn't have any idea what I ordered, the quantity or anything. There is possibility just walk away without paying. Whereas what I believe at the moment, I need skills and wealth to achieve happiness. I sometimes question, am I even unhappy? Yes I'm unhappy because I don't have a career, I don't have a home, I don't wealth etc. But in reality, the way families work here, they want everyone to live under the same roof, making small amount of money to 'run the kitchen', share family car. Why seek an independent life when all the needs can be provided by entire families working together. I fear the life I'm striving for might lead to loneliness. I.e moving away from my home, starting a career, moving to a different country from developing to develop, getting into corporate life and eventually becoming wealthy. In my eyes, I would feel I'm the most successful with most money in the bank, but what would other think?

dkns 10y ago

"In fact, wealth can actually make life worse. We can use wealth to distract us from our deeper issues by spending money on things we don't need, or worrying about losing our wealth." You'll have those 'deeper issues' when you're poor as well. The difference will be you'll be anxious because you won't be sure if you'll have the money for all of your bills or you'll have enough to feed your family and not worrying if you can afford next luxury car. I see blogs/articles like this pop from time to time. A rich guy (who probably didn't ever experience in his life how it's like to be poor) saying "being rich isn't a solution to all of your life problems". Well, I'm sure it isn't, being rich doesn't equal being content in life, but it sure as hell beats being poor.

nunez 10y ago

On one hand, I appreciate the insight and advice from people much wealthier than me on how being wealthy isn't as cracked up as it's made out to be. On the other hand, they are wealthier than me and can say that. I can't. It is difficult to take their advice at face value because of it. I think that the only two solutions to this problem are (1) Fore-go wanting to become wealthy and being content with what you have, or (2) Try to attain enough wealth to see for yourself whether the sacrifices made were worth it. If staying where you're at doesn't seem right to you, then you're only option is door (2). To be clear, I don't think that doing everything you can to make more cash is the right way to go. From what I've seen, it is very difficult to attain massive amounts of wealth without getting in really early on a business opportunity that rocket ships. I think having core values (i.e things you cannot give up) helps. But if the expected reaction from reading this piece is "Well, being rich doesn't sound much better than having to worry about money all of the time, so I guess I'll just keep working at okay salary levels until I retire 60 years from now," then I can't feel ok with that. That's where my head's at right now.