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I grew up Mormon in Utah and I love the Mormons in my life. Every leader in local congregations is an unpaid volunteer. Everyone in the congregation has a respo

I grew up Mormon in Utah and I love the Mormons in my life. Every leader in local congregations is an unpaid volunteer. Everyone in the congregation has a responsibility to carry out in the community (sunday school teacher, youth mentor, clerk to track finances, etc). As a Mormon kid, I was taught to work hard my whole life for the good of others. I served a Mormon mission in Europe, which was an extremely difficult experience, but I learned the value of persistence and diligent hard work. There are definitely some interesting positive cultural influences from the Mormon church. There are some negative influences however. A few years ago, I decided no longer to participate in the Mormon church because of its harsh policies/teachings about LGBT people and because I found myself agreeing with agnostic atheism. I told my family and friends that I'd always respect them and their beliefs when I decided to leave the church. I was surprised by the harsh reaction: my Mormon loved ones told me that they were concerned about the future of my children, that I was depriving my family of happiness in heaven, and, as one of my own parents told me, they didn't know who I was anymore. I think Mormons are extremely kind to non-members of the church and to the church's current members. But if you are a member and you want to leave, sometimes they can be extremely harsh. I also think Mormons are some of the most kind people in the world on the person-to-person scale, but on the group-to-group scale, they can be pretty brutal sometimes. Blacks were denied access to the most sacred temple rituals until 1978, and today LGBT people in long-term relationships or marriages are considered apostates and their children are not allowed to be baptized. Weird mix of super kind and super harsh.

itchyjunk 10y ago
Ah, yes. I have heard similar experiences from ex-Mormons i've come across. Just shows that things are more complicated in real world and you can't take some anecdotal evidence to judge a group/person in any meaningful way. Your side of the story is not something people looking from the outside would normally see.
nine_k 10y ago
Isn't it the case with every group with strong identity? Imagine being raised in a long-term Democrat family and declaring that the Tea Party is your thing. (And it's not even about eternal damnation.)
- arconis987 10y ago
  I think that's a very good point. That said, my guess is that, on average, shunning is probably less frequent when family members leave a political party than when they leave Mormonism, but that's just a guess with no backing evidence. Some Mormon families don't care whether their kids stay in the church or leave. For others, it leads to shunning and disowning. I'd say shunning probably occurs more for Mormon apostates than Catholic apostates, but it probably occurs less for Mormon apostates than Jehovah's Witness or Scientologist apostates.
  - cookiecaper 10y ago
    Let me just make the correction here that "shunning" is not the same as any discomfort/disagreement/broken relationships. "Shunning" is a real policy advocated by some groups, such as JWs. It's intended to punish the traitor, and the rule is that you are supposed to completely divorce yourself from that person, cutting off all forms of contact. The intent is to cause the person to realize the error of their ways via tough love and come back. Mormon policy is unequivocally NOT shunning. It could not be more opposite. The Church regularly implores its members to be tolerant and kind to everyone, including family members and friends who've left the Church or quit practicing. It's true that Mormons are one of the only religious groups in the U.S. that, by and large, continually integrate it into their daily lives and take it seriously. That makes it a bigger deal when someone leaves than in mainstream American Christianity, where "church shopping" is very common, and there is a doctrine of a "priesthood of all believers", i.e., as long as you continue to claim to be Christian you're A-OK. Mormonism does insist that Mormonism is important, and most Mormons believe that. But I think the parent is correct. This is to be expected whenever you challenge, insult, or disavow the deeply-held beliefs of any group. It's very difficult for everyone when those beliefs are held by close friends and family members. That many Americans do not care if someone leaves their religion merely demonstrates that they consider religion a non-critical social function instead of a set of core beliefs and practices to guide one's life.
    - arconis987 10y ago
      You are absolutely correct. There is no official Mormon policy of shunning. The teachings from the leaders of the church on this matter are very generous and admirable and tend to be along the lines of something like, "reach out in love." I guess what I was referring to is a kind of informal shunning where close friends or family suddenly cut off contact with you when they learn you have left the church. It would be nice if more people followed the loving teachings from leaders. Many continue to maintain loving relationships, but others want nothing more to do with you, even after years of friendship. I take responsibility for this relationship shifting to some degree. Sometimes I wish I had never told anyone I had left the church so my friends and family would assume I was still part of the tribe. It's not easy to hide it though since various small hints can give it away, like being seen with a coffee or without your temple garment undershirt. It's difficult.
TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
> my Mormon loved ones told me that they were concerned about the future of my children, that I was depriving my family of happiness in heaven, and, as one of my own parents told me, they didn't know who I was anymore. If they believe that you must be religious or else you burn in hell for all of eternity, then their reaction makes sense. They are behaving that way out of concern for your well being.
- arconis987 10y ago
  You're absolutely right. Whenever I've received a very stern scolding from a Mormon friend or family member over my decision to stop participating in Mormonism, I've tried to respond by saying that I'm grateful for their deep concern, which demonstrates that they care about me. It would be nice if we could all believe what we want to without consequences to our relationships, but unfortunately that isn't a realistic expectation in many (maybe most) religious communities.
  - sswaner 10y ago
    "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11?lang=eng#10 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11?lang=eng#10
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  Mormons do not believe that non-believers will "burn in hell for all of eternity". Mormons believe that the afterlife will be far superior to earth life for virtually everyone. Only a tiny segment of humanity, who commit "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost", which Jesus described as the unpardonable sin, will have an existence of endless pain and misery. The belief is that very few people are even capable of getting themselves into this arrangement. Mormons feel serious concern when someone leaves the Church for multiple reasons, but the biggest factor is simple human psychology. Fundamentally, you're rejecting a culture and a belief system into which you've been initiated, accepted, and accommodated for many years, and a set of traditions on which your family has based their lives, potentially for generations. The fact is, this hurts peoples' feelings, and they're going to have a hard time coping with it, and it's by no means specific to Mormonism. It's applicable to anyone whose religion plays a major function in their lives. If anything, Mormonism's unique redemptive and compassionate doctrine softens the blow. It should be noted here that, unlike some other groups, Mormons do not have a policy of shunning people who leave. It may be difficult for family and friends to accept the lifestyle change, but the Church preaches nothing but tolerance, outreach, and compassion to everyone, including, and in some cases especially, to those who've left.
BurningFrog 10y ago
I always wonder about the Mormon missionaries. Did you actually convert anyone? Or is that not even the point?
- vlunkr 10y ago
  Yes they do, and that is their main purpose. They also do service projects, etc.
- waderyan 10y ago
  I was a Mormon missionary. Each missionary memorizes this to drill in their purpose: "My purpose is to invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored gospel through faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end." https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/what-is-my-purpose-as-a-missionary?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missi... Most of our activities were finding people interested in the LDS church and teaching those people about the LDS church. I would have 20-30 45 minute in house meetings a week with people that were interested. We spent most of our time knocking on doors and meeting new people to fill up those teaching slots. For service, probably 5-10 hours a week. Usually set up by the local LDS congregation or people we met on the street (ex. "I'm not interested but I could use help power spraying my roof). I had an awesome mission experience. It was a lot of fun. I met a lot of interesting people, with tough backgrounds, looking for something new in their lives. Made me really grateful for my middle class upbringing and want to help people less fortunate than me.
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    Just wanted to thank you guys, met a lot of Mormons all over the world. Great people, can always talk snd discuss things, always recognize you by the n cell clothes you wear and the fact you always speak the local language :)
    - waderyan 10y ago
      Hey thank you very much! Very kind of you.
suresk 10y ago
Do you have kids? It is much harder for non/ex-mormon kids in certain places in Utah. Once the initial effort to convert you fails, you frequently get treated very poorly. Lots of mormon parents won't let their kids play with non-mormon kids, and an even larger percent won't let their kids date non-mormons. We live in a fairly mormon-heavy part of Utah, and while I really like our neighbors and don't feel like the religion thing is a big deal at all, both my wife and I look back on our experiences in high school and worry a lot about what life in school will be like for our kids when they start going.
- thomastjeffery 10y ago
  > Lots of mormon parents won't let their kids play with non-mormon kids, and an even larger percent won't let their kids date non-mormons. As a Mormon, I'd like to let you know something: Those people are assholes. That kind of behavior is rude, and uninviting (literally); two qualities that are opposite what LDS people (Mormons) are taught to be. Unfortunately, this is a common problem in the Utah bubble. Those parents are well meaning - they just want their kids to fit into a mould they believe to be a better life - yet go about it in entirely the wrong way. I was lucky enough to grow up in an enigma inside the Utah bubble (an Army base), where that behavior was just not even viable, and therefore scarcely exists (if at all). On behalf of Mormons all around the world, I would like to apologise for that kind of behavior.

itchyjunk 10y ago

Ah, yes. I have heard similar experiences from ex-Mormons i've come across. Just shows that things are more complicated in real world and you can't take some anecdotal evidence to judge a group/person in any meaningful way. Your side of the story is not something people looking from the outside would normally see.

nine_k 10y ago

Isn't it the case with every group with strong identity? Imagine being raised in a long-term Democrat family and declaring that the Tea Party is your thing. (And it's not even about eternal damnation.)

arconis987 10y ago
I think that's a very good point. That said, my guess is that, on average, shunning is probably less frequent when family members leave a political party than when they leave Mormonism, but that's just a guess with no backing evidence. Some Mormon families don't care whether their kids stay in the church or leave. For others, it leads to shunning and disowning. I'd say shunning probably occurs more for Mormon apostates than Catholic apostates, but it probably occurs less for Mormon apostates than Jehovah's Witness or Scientologist apostates.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  Let me just make the correction here that "shunning" is not the same as any discomfort/disagreement/broken relationships. "Shunning" is a real policy advocated by some groups, such as JWs. It's intended to punish the traitor, and the rule is that you are supposed to completely divorce yourself from that person, cutting off all forms of contact. The intent is to cause the person to realize the error of their ways via tough love and come back. Mormon policy is unequivocally NOT shunning. It could not be more opposite. The Church regularly implores its members to be tolerant and kind to everyone, including family members and friends who've left the Church or quit practicing. It's true that Mormons are one of the only religious groups in the U.S. that, by and large, continually integrate it into their daily lives and take it seriously. That makes it a bigger deal when someone leaves than in mainstream American Christianity, where "church shopping" is very common, and there is a doctrine of a "priesthood of all believers", i.e., as long as you continue to claim to be Christian you're A-OK. Mormonism does insist that Mormonism is important, and most Mormons believe that. But I think the parent is correct. This is to be expected whenever you challenge, insult, or disavow the deeply-held beliefs of any group. It's very difficult for everyone when those beliefs are held by close friends and family members. That many Americans do not care if someone leaves their religion merely demonstrates that they consider religion a non-critical social function instead of a set of core beliefs and practices to guide one's life.
  - arconis987 10y ago
    You are absolutely correct. There is no official Mormon policy of shunning. The teachings from the leaders of the church on this matter are very generous and admirable and tend to be along the lines of something like, "reach out in love." I guess what I was referring to is a kind of informal shunning where close friends or family suddenly cut off contact with you when they learn you have left the church. It would be nice if more people followed the loving teachings from leaders. Many continue to maintain loving relationships, but others want nothing more to do with you, even after years of friendship. I take responsibility for this relationship shifting to some degree. Sometimes I wish I had never told anyone I had left the church so my friends and family would assume I was still part of the tribe. It's not easy to hide it though since various small hints can give it away, like being seen with a coffee or without your temple garment undershirt. It's difficult.

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago

> my Mormon loved ones told me that they were concerned about the future of my children, that I was depriving my family of happiness in heaven, and, as one of my own parents told me, they didn't know who I was anymore. If they believe that you must be religious or else you burn in hell for all of eternity, then their reaction makes sense. They are behaving that way out of concern for your well being.

arconis987 10y ago
You're absolutely right. Whenever I've received a very stern scolding from a Mormon friend or family member over my decision to stop participating in Mormonism, I've tried to respond by saying that I'm grateful for their deep concern, which demonstrates that they care about me. It would be nice if we could all believe what we want to without consequences to our relationships, but unfortunately that isn't a realistic expectation in many (maybe most) religious communities.
- sswaner 10y ago
  "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11?lang=eng#10 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11?lang=eng#10
cookiecaper 10y ago
Mormons do not believe that non-believers will "burn in hell for all of eternity". Mormons believe that the afterlife will be far superior to earth life for virtually everyone. Only a tiny segment of humanity, who commit "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost", which Jesus described as the unpardonable sin, will have an existence of endless pain and misery. The belief is that very few people are even capable of getting themselves into this arrangement. Mormons feel serious concern when someone leaves the Church for multiple reasons, but the biggest factor is simple human psychology. Fundamentally, you're rejecting a culture and a belief system into which you've been initiated, accepted, and accommodated for many years, and a set of traditions on which your family has based their lives, potentially for generations. The fact is, this hurts peoples' feelings, and they're going to have a hard time coping with it, and it's by no means specific to Mormonism. It's applicable to anyone whose religion plays a major function in their lives. If anything, Mormonism's unique redemptive and compassionate doctrine softens the blow. It should be noted here that, unlike some other groups, Mormons do not have a policy of shunning people who leave. It may be difficult for family and friends to accept the lifestyle change, but the Church preaches nothing but tolerance, outreach, and compassion to everyone, including, and in some cases especially, to those who've left.

BurningFrog 10y ago

I always wonder about the Mormon missionaries. Did you actually convert anyone? Or is that not even the point?

vlunkr 10y ago
Yes they do, and that is their main purpose. They also do service projects, etc.
waderyan 10y ago
I was a Mormon missionary. Each missionary memorizes this to drill in their purpose: "My purpose is to invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored gospel through faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end." https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/what-is-my-purpose-as-a-missionary?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missi... Most of our activities were finding people interested in the LDS church and teaching those people about the LDS church. I would have 20-30 45 minute in house meetings a week with people that were interested. We spent most of our time knocking on doors and meeting new people to fill up those teaching slots. For service, probably 5-10 hours a week. Usually set up by the local LDS congregation or people we met on the street (ex. "I'm not interested but I could use help power spraying my roof). I had an awesome mission experience. It was a lot of fun. I met a lot of interesting people, with tough backgrounds, looking for something new in their lives. Made me really grateful for my middle class upbringing and want to help people less fortunate than me.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Just wanted to thank you guys, met a lot of Mormons all over the world. Great people, can always talk snd discuss things, always recognize you by the n cell clothes you wear and the fact you always speak the local language :)
  - waderyan 10y ago
    Hey thank you very much! Very kind of you.

suresk 10y ago

Do you have kids? It is much harder for non/ex-mormon kids in certain places in Utah. Once the initial effort to convert you fails, you frequently get treated very poorly. Lots of mormon parents won't let their kids play with non-mormon kids, and an even larger percent won't let their kids date non-mormons. We live in a fairly mormon-heavy part of Utah, and while I really like our neighbors and don't feel like the religion thing is a big deal at all, both my wife and I look back on our experiences in high school and worry a lot about what life in school will be like for our kids when they start going.

thomastjeffery 10y ago
> Lots of mormon parents won't let their kids play with non-mormon kids, and an even larger percent won't let their kids date non-mormons. As a Mormon, I'd like to let you know something: Those people are assholes. That kind of behavior is rude, and uninviting (literally); two qualities that are opposite what LDS people (Mormons) are taught to be. Unfortunately, this is a common problem in the Utah bubble. Those parents are well meaning - they just want their kids to fit into a mould they believe to be a better life - yet go about it in entirely the wrong way. I was lucky enough to grow up in an enigma inside the Utah bubble (an Army base), where that behavior was just not even viable, and therefore scarcely exists (if at all). On behalf of Mormons all around the world, I would like to apologise for that kind of behavior.