8 ms·

When I was first about to move to Utah, few years ago, lot of people asked me "why?" and told me a lot about a lot of things. Of course, I didn't even know who

When I was first about to move to Utah, few years ago, lot of people asked me "why?" and told me a lot about a lot of things. Of course, I didn't even know who the Mormons were (I am not from USA originally). Most of what I heard was wrong. I've met Mormons who have asked me where I am from and not only know where that country is but spoke to me in my NATIVE tougue. I was very impressed. The key word in the article is the Mormon Church and its not an exaggeration. They do a lot in a lot of different areas (as if helping is ingrained in their blood). I am not sure why Utah has such an odd reputation outside of the state. But I am sure its something to do with the history that I haven' cared to look too deeply into. The downside of SLC is the smog though. You can feel the burn in your eyes some days. Also, the housing market seems to be booming here. I have seen so many housing complex start and finish and sell all the new houses in the last few years its amazing. I am not convinced it's planned out as best as it can be, though. SLC could do with more parks and trees inserted in some places.

purity_resigns 10y ago
Boise, ID has the same problem with air quality (and it's also in the Mormon heartland). As a non-Mormon growing up in Southern Idaho, it's hard to argue the church isn't very influential politically and also good at social works.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
arconis987 10y ago
I grew up Mormon in Utah and I love the Mormons in my life. Every leader in local congregations is an unpaid volunteer. Everyone in the congregation has a responsibility to carry out in the community (sunday school teacher, youth mentor, clerk to track finances, etc). As a Mormon kid, I was taught to work hard my whole life for the good of others. I served a Mormon mission in Europe, which was an extremely difficult experience, but I learned the value of persistence and diligent hard work. There are definitely some interesting positive cultural influences from the Mormon church. There are some negative influences however. A few years ago, I decided no longer to participate in the Mormon church because of its harsh policies/teachings about LGBT people and because I found myself agreeing with agnostic atheism. I told my family and friends that I'd always respect them and their beliefs when I decided to leave the church. I was surprised by the harsh reaction: my Mormon loved ones told me that they were concerned about the future of my children, that I was depriving my family of happiness in heaven, and, as one of my own parents told me, they didn't know who I was anymore. I think Mormons are extremely kind to non-members of the church and to the church's current members. But if you are a member and you want to leave, sometimes they can be extremely harsh. I also think Mormons are some of the most kind people in the world on the person-to-person scale, but on the group-to-group scale, they can be pretty brutal sometimes. Blacks were denied access to the most sacred temple rituals until 1978, and today LGBT people in long-term relationships or marriages are considered apostates and their children are not allowed to be baptized. Weird mix of super kind and super harsh.
- itchyjunk 10y ago
  Ah, yes. I have heard similar experiences from ex-Mormons i've come across. Just shows that things are more complicated in real world and you can't take some anecdotal evidence to judge a group/person in any meaningful way. Your side of the story is not something people looking from the outside would normally see.
- nine_k 10y ago
  Isn't it the case with every group with strong identity? Imagine being raised in a long-term Democrat family and declaring that the Tea Party is your thing. (And it's not even about eternal damnation.)
  - arconis987 10y ago
    I think that's a very good point. That said, my guess is that, on average, shunning is probably less frequent when family members leave a political party than when they leave Mormonism, but that's just a guess with no backing evidence. Some Mormon families don't care whether their kids stay in the church or leave. For others, it leads to shunning and disowning. I'd say shunning probably occurs more for Mormon apostates than Catholic apostates, but it probably occurs less for Mormon apostates than Jehovah's Witness or Scientologist apostates.
    - cookiecaper 10y ago
      Let me just make the correction here that "shunning" is not the same as any discomfort/disagreement/broken relationships. "Shunning" is a real policy advocated by some groups, such as JWs. It's intended to punish the traitor, and the rule is that you are supposed to completely divorce yourself from that person, cutting off all forms of contact. The intent is to cause the person to realize the error of their ways via tough love and come back. Mormon policy is unequivocally NOT shunning. It could not be more opposite. The Church regularly implores its members to be tolerant and kind to everyone, including family members and friends who've left the Church or quit practicing. It's true that Mormons are one of the only religious groups in the U.S. that, by and large, continually integrate it into their daily lives and take it seriously. That makes it a bigger deal when someone leaves than in mainstream American Christianity, where "church shopping" is very common, and there is a doctrine of a "priesthood of all believers", i.e., as long as you continue to claim to be Christian you're A-OK. Mormonism does insist that Mormonism is important, and most Mormons believe that. But I think the parent is correct. This is to be expected whenever you challenge, insult, or disavow the deeply-held beliefs of any group. It's very difficult for everyone when those beliefs are held by close friends and family members. That many Americans do not care if someone leaves their religion merely demonstrates that they consider religion a non-critical social function instead of a set of core beliefs and practices to guide one's life.
tyingq 10y ago
> I am not sure why Utah has such an odd reputation outside of the state Part of it is that Mormon influence. As you mention, there are a lot of positive things they bring to the table. Like any other church, though, it's not all positive. Because they are a dominant proportion of the state (~60% of the population), their religious views leak into politics, public schools, law, business relationships, media, and so forth. If your values match theirs, it's terrific. If not, you'll run into issues. The Mormon view on LGBT rights isn't terribly progressive, for example. They also didn't allow black males to "hold the priesthood" until the very late 70's. Note that almost all adult males in the religion "hold the priesthood". Not quite enough time has passed for that stigma to have cleared away.
- innocentoldguy 10y ago
  Isn't that the case anywhere in the U.S. though? Don't local politics always reflect the cultures and opinions of those doing the voting? Isn't that by intentional design?
  - tyingq 10y ago
    60% of the population being of one religion in an entire state is unique in the US.
    - innocentoldguy 10y ago
      Perhaps, but having 60% of the local populace embracing the same ideology isn't.
w1ntermute 10y ago
> I've met Mormons who have asked me where I am from and not only know where that country is but spoke to me in my NATIVE tougue. I was very impressed. That's because they send missionaries all over the world to convert people to Mormonism. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but they aren't really interested in other countries, languages, or cultures beyond using that knowledge to impose their own culture and religion on others.
- OtterCoder 10y ago
  Oh please. Most missionaries return with a real love for their assigned countries, languages, and cultures. Just because you disagree with their beliefs, you don't have to dehumanize them.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  All the Mormons I've met are the nicest people you could ask. I've met a lot, in different places. It's a hobby of mine talking with them. I'm an atheist b t genuinely believe if all the people would act like this, world would be pretty damn close to being a heaven.
shawn-butler 10y ago
Hard to combat weather and geography. The inversions in SLC are pretty powerful effects.

purity_resigns 10y ago

Boise, ID has the same problem with air quality (and it's also in the Mormon heartland). As a non-Mormon growing up in Southern Idaho, it's hard to argue the church isn't very influential politically and also good at social works.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

arconis987 10y ago

I grew up Mormon in Utah and I love the Mormons in my life. Every leader in local congregations is an unpaid volunteer. Everyone in the congregation has a responsibility to carry out in the community (sunday school teacher, youth mentor, clerk to track finances, etc). As a Mormon kid, I was taught to work hard my whole life for the good of others. I served a Mormon mission in Europe, which was an extremely difficult experience, but I learned the value of persistence and diligent hard work. There are definitely some interesting positive cultural influences from the Mormon church. There are some negative influences however. A few years ago, I decided no longer to participate in the Mormon church because of its harsh policies/teachings about LGBT people and because I found myself agreeing with agnostic atheism. I told my family and friends that I'd always respect them and their beliefs when I decided to leave the church. I was surprised by the harsh reaction: my Mormon loved ones told me that they were concerned about the future of my children, that I was depriving my family of happiness in heaven, and, as one of my own parents told me, they didn't know who I was anymore. I think Mormons are extremely kind to non-members of the church and to the church's current members. But if you are a member and you want to leave, sometimes they can be extremely harsh. I also think Mormons are some of the most kind people in the world on the person-to-person scale, but on the group-to-group scale, they can be pretty brutal sometimes. Blacks were denied access to the most sacred temple rituals until 1978, and today LGBT people in long-term relationships or marriages are considered apostates and their children are not allowed to be baptized. Weird mix of super kind and super harsh.

itchyjunk 10y ago
Ah, yes. I have heard similar experiences from ex-Mormons i've come across. Just shows that things are more complicated in real world and you can't take some anecdotal evidence to judge a group/person in any meaningful way. Your side of the story is not something people looking from the outside would normally see.
nine_k 10y ago
Isn't it the case with every group with strong identity? Imagine being raised in a long-term Democrat family and declaring that the Tea Party is your thing. (And it's not even about eternal damnation.)
- arconis987 10y ago
  I think that's a very good point. That said, my guess is that, on average, shunning is probably less frequent when family members leave a political party than when they leave Mormonism, but that's just a guess with no backing evidence. Some Mormon families don't care whether their kids stay in the church or leave. For others, it leads to shunning and disowning. I'd say shunning probably occurs more for Mormon apostates than Catholic apostates, but it probably occurs less for Mormon apostates than Jehovah's Witness or Scientologist apostates.
  - cookiecaper 10y ago
    Let me just make the correction here that "shunning" is not the same as any discomfort/disagreement/broken relationships. "Shunning" is a real policy advocated by some groups, such as JWs. It's intended to punish the traitor, and the rule is that you are supposed to completely divorce yourself from that person, cutting off all forms of contact. The intent is to cause the person to realize the error of their ways via tough love and come back. Mormon policy is unequivocally NOT shunning. It could not be more opposite. The Church regularly implores its members to be tolerant and kind to everyone, including family members and friends who've left the Church or quit practicing. It's true that Mormons are one of the only religious groups in the U.S. that, by and large, continually integrate it into their daily lives and take it seriously. That makes it a bigger deal when someone leaves than in mainstream American Christianity, where "church shopping" is very common, and there is a doctrine of a "priesthood of all believers", i.e., as long as you continue to claim to be Christian you're A-OK. Mormonism does insist that Mormonism is important, and most Mormons believe that. But I think the parent is correct. This is to be expected whenever you challenge, insult, or disavow the deeply-held beliefs of any group. It's very difficult for everyone when those beliefs are held by close friends and family members. That many Americans do not care if someone leaves their religion merely demonstrates that they consider religion a non-critical social function instead of a set of core beliefs and practices to guide one's life.

tyingq 10y ago

> I am not sure why Utah has such an odd reputation outside of the state Part of it is that Mormon influence. As you mention, there are a lot of positive things they bring to the table. Like any other church, though, it's not all positive. Because they are a dominant proportion of the state (~60% of the population), their religious views leak into politics, public schools, law, business relationships, media, and so forth. If your values match theirs, it's terrific. If not, you'll run into issues. The Mormon view on LGBT rights isn't terribly progressive, for example. They also didn't allow black males to "hold the priesthood" until the very late 70's. Note that almost all adult males in the religion "hold the priesthood". Not quite enough time has passed for that stigma to have cleared away.

innocentoldguy 10y ago
Isn't that the case anywhere in the U.S. though? Don't local politics always reflect the cultures and opinions of those doing the voting? Isn't that by intentional design?
- tyingq 10y ago
  60% of the population being of one religion in an entire state is unique in the US.
  - innocentoldguy 10y ago
    Perhaps, but having 60% of the local populace embracing the same ideology isn't.

w1ntermute 10y ago

> I've met Mormons who have asked me where I am from and not only know where that country is but spoke to me in my NATIVE tougue. I was very impressed. That's because they send missionaries all over the world to convert people to Mormonism. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but they aren't really interested in other countries, languages, or cultures beyond using that knowledge to impose their own culture and religion on others.

OtterCoder 10y ago
Oh please. Most missionaries return with a real love for their assigned countries, languages, and cultures. Just because you disagree with their beliefs, you don't have to dehumanize them.
angry-hacker 10y ago
All the Mormons I've met are the nicest people you could ask. I've met a lot, in different places. It's a hobby of mine talking with them. I'm an atheist b t genuinely believe if all the people would act like this, world would be pretty damn close to being a heaven.

shawn-butler 10y ago

Hard to combat weather and geography. The inversions in SLC are pretty powerful effects.