4 ms·

This doesn't surprise me. With all the good jobs drying up and wages decreasing, young people can't afford to go to the theater when the price of attending has

This doesn't surprise me. With all the good jobs drying up and wages decreasing, young people can't afford to go to the theater when the price of attending has been going up. On top of that, it seems like most big movies are formulaic, following the same pattern and not eliciting anything more than mild amusement. It's just not worth it anymore.

1123581321 10y ago
For younger people, restaurants have taken budget away from movies and clothes. Wages aren't a factor. It's true that movie prices have increased, but it's not a significant rate of inflation compared to food.
- TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
  That's an interesting idea. Do you have any data on this? I could believe that some money that would have previously gone to movies is now going to food, but I find it hard to believe that lower inflation adjusted income wouldn't impact movie sales.
  - 1123581321 10y ago
    Sure, there are lots of links on Google. Here's one about teens showing restaurant spending increasing significantly and media spending (and some others dropping): http://www.businessinsider.com/how-teens-are-spending-money-2014-2014-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-teens-are-spending-money-... This report suggests if wages are falling, the auto category is taking the most significant hit. Discretionary spending (both restaurants and movies) stays steady or increases (the PDF has much more detail): http://home.isr.umich.edu/releases/how-teen-workers-spend-their-money-um-study-shows-trends/ http://home.isr.umich.edu/releases/how-teen-workers-spend-th... This suggests the 2008 recession did change habits, but notes that movies are the only public/external recreation service that's suffered. It blames home viewing being a good enough cheap alternative: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-recession-changed-ways-americans-spend-money-n413386 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-recession-change... So there are a few different slices that hopefully help isolate the problem for theaters that just as much or more is being spent on recreation, but it's being spent differently.
    - sogen 10y ago
      > home viewing being a good enough cheap alternative. So giving them a lot of options at home is killing going out to the movies? Makes sense. In the ol' days cable TV was like 6 channels. So kids HAD to go outside and do stuff (play).
- tyingq 10y ago
  What do teen kids even do these days? I'm older. We had skateboard parks, video arcades, roller skating, community centers, the mall, mini golf, go kart tracks, cheap movies, etc. I don't believe any of those are socially acceptable for teens now. These things are either gone, or only used by younger-than-teens. I guess they just hang out at each other's homes?
  - throwaway9475 10y ago
    All of those things still exist (except cheap movies), and people still do them. I think you're just assuming that teenagers all did what you did and that teenagers now just do what all other teenagers do. But as it turns out, teenagers are people with vastly differing interests, and they don't all fit one mold.
    - tyingq 10y ago
      >All of those things still exist (except cheap movies), and people still do them. Yes and no. Video arcades, for example, are not ubiquitous the way they used to be. Similar for rolling skating rinks. > I think you're just assuming that teenagers all did what you did That's an odd takeaway. I'm noting, for example, roller skating was highly popular with teenagers. Maybe not all, but many. If you went to a roller skating rink on Friday night, it was filled with them. That's not the case now.
      - thesagan 10y ago
        I've been wondering the same thing. In my city the malls are not what they used to be, and I don't see the kids there much, now. We only have one roller skate rink left, and I haven't seen a busy parking lot in front for years. Arcades here are gone, and the theaters aren't as busy as they once were (I think... I rarely go anymore. I might be wrong, there.) Local skate park looks empty a lot, too. Yeah... where are they? Gaming indoors?
        Animats 10y ago
        For some reason, downtown Redwood City, CA has a downtown that works. There's a big open plaza in front of the old courthouse, where the city sometimes shows free movies or has other events. There's a 20-theater multiplex. There's a theater that runs local productions of musicals ("The Producers" closes tomorrow) and cover bands for old rock groups. There's a little space that has jazz and blues. There's a live theater space which runs Asian productions. There's a nightclub. There are about a dozen modestly priced restaurants. All this is in an area about 500 feet square. It's a warm Saturday night, and it's probably full of teenagers right now. It took about 10 years for this to start working. For years after the theater multiplex was built, few people came. Then, somehow, it started working as a public space.
mschuster91 10y ago
> On top of that, it seems like most big movies are formulaic, following the same pattern and not eliciting anything more than mild amusement Yeah. The problem is that studios have gone risk-averse. A movie production can run way up to 250-300M US$ in budget plus promotion costs (earlier movies had analog reproduction and logistic costs, too, but most cinemas are digital now which has basically no distribution cost). So they tend to stick to either sequels or adaptations of popular comics, to reduce the risk of having to shoulder a 250M $ loss. The same mindset exists in the cinema industry: either fill your screens with "blockbuster" movies and have an okay-ish visitor count, or risk having a couple indie films which gather no audience. In old times, there was stuff like the German "Filmförderungsanstalt" (roughly translated to "movie subvention agency") which provided subventions and financial help to all parts of the chain - from production to distribution. But with costs increasing (labor, advertising, and especially the extremely expensive switch to digital), subventions don't have the same impact on production cost to also make indie films viable. (Exceptions like Iron Sky proving the general rule)
- abrowne 10y ago
  This is why I don't watch current/recent Hollywood movies. There still are some good foreign and indie films being made, and I find I don't mind the lower production values after getting used to it. (I'm a native American English speaker, and I had to look up "subvention". I think "subsidy" would be a better translation.)
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    > There still are some good foreign and indie films being made, and I find I don't mind the lower production values after getting used to it. Funny thing is, stuff like Sharknado sucks when compared on the visual effects, but it's at least an original story compared to all the stuff currently in cinemas. > (I'm a native American English speaker, and I had to look up "subvention". I think "subsidy" would be a better translation.) I'm a German, thanks for the hint :)
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
Hollywood seems content to continue milking comic books and lately anime for storylines instead of coming up with anything original and then applying the same, cliched formula. I can't wait for the demise of this system so that we can see fresh, original approaches to film-making where the starring actor/actress is the biggest expense. Did they learn the lesson from the music industry? Namely, not to attack the consumer as the cause of its downfall before it was eventually swallowed up by a tech company (Apple). Perhaps if they transition graciously, Amazon or other firms will offer them a better deal. Or, preferably, they take the route used by Veronica Mars by getting funding through kickstarter, indiegogo or some other fundraising platform. This way, maybe fans won't be severely disappointed and movie adaptations of popular franchises aren't dumbed down and white-washed to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. And, yes, I'm a bit upset after seeing the treatment Ghost in the Shell, one of my favorite franchises, received. Akira and Cowboy Bebop are next, but I actually like Jordan Peele and Keanu Reeves so I'm crossing my fingers.
- pyrophane 10y ago
  I think there are still lots of fresh, original movies being made, but they tend to get a bit drowned out by the marketing for all those comic book movies, bad reboots, and whatever Fast/Furious movie is about to come out, so it is easy to think that those are the only things being made. I'm less bothered by the fact that they are still churning out marvel movies at the same rate than I am at how difficult it is to avoid them.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  Here's Lynda Obst explaining why we're seeing current crap movies (Marvel and alike) predominantly from Hollywood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_oHW31jQfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_oHW31jQfg That's not your average reader/analyst, but someone who knows what they're talking about. It works too, so I wouldn't bet on it disappearing too soon. I think they will, and when they do there will be a spectacular crash as it's a spectacular business success right now.
- kosei 10y ago
  I think part of the problem is that the cost to produce a movie is so expensive and the risk of creating a new story/IP is large enough that few studios are willing to take that chance. Pixar is one of the few.
WalterBright 10y ago
> formulaic It actually is a formula: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2013/07/hollywood_and_blake_snyder_s_screenwriting_book_save_the_cat.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2013/07/hollyw...

1123581321 10y ago

For younger people, restaurants have taken budget away from movies and clothes. Wages aren't a factor. It's true that movie prices have increased, but it's not a significant rate of inflation compared to food.

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
That's an interesting idea. Do you have any data on this? I could believe that some money that would have previously gone to movies is now going to food, but I find it hard to believe that lower inflation adjusted income wouldn't impact movie sales.
- 1123581321 10y ago
  Sure, there are lots of links on Google. Here's one about teens showing restaurant spending increasing significantly and media spending (and some others dropping): http://www.businessinsider.com/how-teens-are-spending-money-2014-2014-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-teens-are-spending-money-... This report suggests if wages are falling, the auto category is taking the most significant hit. Discretionary spending (both restaurants and movies) stays steady or increases (the PDF has much more detail): http://home.isr.umich.edu/releases/how-teen-workers-spend-their-money-um-study-shows-trends/ http://home.isr.umich.edu/releases/how-teen-workers-spend-th... This suggests the 2008 recession did change habits, but notes that movies are the only public/external recreation service that's suffered. It blames home viewing being a good enough cheap alternative: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-recession-changed-ways-americans-spend-money-n413386 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/how-recession-change... So there are a few different slices that hopefully help isolate the problem for theaters that just as much or more is being spent on recreation, but it's being spent differently.
  - sogen 10y ago
    > home viewing being a good enough cheap alternative. So giving them a lot of options at home is killing going out to the movies? Makes sense. In the ol' days cable TV was like 6 channels. So kids HAD to go outside and do stuff (play).
tyingq 10y ago
What do teen kids even do these days? I'm older. We had skateboard parks, video arcades, roller skating, community centers, the mall, mini golf, go kart tracks, cheap movies, etc. I don't believe any of those are socially acceptable for teens now. These things are either gone, or only used by younger-than-teens. I guess they just hang out at each other's homes?
- throwaway9475 10y ago
  All of those things still exist (except cheap movies), and people still do them. I think you're just assuming that teenagers all did what you did and that teenagers now just do what all other teenagers do. But as it turns out, teenagers are people with vastly differing interests, and they don't all fit one mold.
  - tyingq 10y ago
    >All of those things still exist (except cheap movies), and people still do them. Yes and no. Video arcades, for example, are not ubiquitous the way they used to be. Similar for rolling skating rinks. > I think you're just assuming that teenagers all did what you did That's an odd takeaway. I'm noting, for example, roller skating was highly popular with teenagers. Maybe not all, but many. If you went to a roller skating rink on Friday night, it was filled with them. That's not the case now.
    - thesagan 10y ago
      I've been wondering the same thing. In my city the malls are not what they used to be, and I don't see the kids there much, now. We only have one roller skate rink left, and I haven't seen a busy parking lot in front for years. Arcades here are gone, and the theaters aren't as busy as they once were (I think... I rarely go anymore. I might be wrong, there.) Local skate park looks empty a lot, too. Yeah... where are they? Gaming indoors?
      - Animats 10y ago
        For some reason, downtown Redwood City, CA has a downtown that works. There's a big open plaza in front of the old courthouse, where the city sometimes shows free movies or has other events. There's a 20-theater multiplex. There's a theater that runs local productions of musicals ("The Producers" closes tomorrow) and cover bands for old rock groups. There's a little space that has jazz and blues. There's a live theater space which runs Asian productions. There's a nightclub. There are about a dozen modestly priced restaurants. All this is in an area about 500 feet square. It's a warm Saturday night, and it's probably full of teenagers right now. It took about 10 years for this to start working. For years after the theater multiplex was built, few people came. Then, somehow, it started working as a public space.

mschuster91 10y ago

> On top of that, it seems like most big movies are formulaic, following the same pattern and not eliciting anything more than mild amusement Yeah. The problem is that studios have gone risk-averse. A movie production can run way up to 250-300M US$ in budget plus promotion costs (earlier movies had analog reproduction and logistic costs, too, but most cinemas are digital now which has basically no distribution cost). So they tend to stick to either sequels or adaptations of popular comics, to reduce the risk of having to shoulder a 250M $ loss. The same mindset exists in the cinema industry: either fill your screens with "blockbuster" movies and have an okay-ish visitor count, or risk having a couple indie films which gather no audience. In old times, there was stuff like the German "Filmförderungsanstalt" (roughly translated to "movie subvention agency") which provided subventions and financial help to all parts of the chain - from production to distribution. But with costs increasing (labor, advertising, and especially the extremely expensive switch to digital), subventions don't have the same impact on production cost to also make indie films viable. (Exceptions like Iron Sky proving the general rule)

abrowne 10y ago
This is why I don't watch current/recent Hollywood movies. There still are some good foreign and indie films being made, and I find I don't mind the lower production values after getting used to it. (I'm a native American English speaker, and I had to look up "subvention". I think "subsidy" would be a better translation.)
- mschuster91 10y ago
  > There still are some good foreign and indie films being made, and I find I don't mind the lower production values after getting used to it. Funny thing is, stuff like Sharknado sucks when compared on the visual effects, but it's at least an original story compared to all the stuff currently in cinemas. > (I'm a native American English speaker, and I had to look up "subvention". I think "subsidy" would be a better translation.) I'm a German, thanks for the hint :)

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

Hollywood seems content to continue milking comic books and lately anime for storylines instead of coming up with anything original and then applying the same, cliched formula. I can't wait for the demise of this system so that we can see fresh, original approaches to film-making where the starring actor/actress is the biggest expense. Did they learn the lesson from the music industry? Namely, not to attack the consumer as the cause of its downfall before it was eventually swallowed up by a tech company (Apple). Perhaps if they transition graciously, Amazon or other firms will offer them a better deal. Or, preferably, they take the route used by Veronica Mars by getting funding through kickstarter, indiegogo or some other fundraising platform. This way, maybe fans won't be severely disappointed and movie adaptations of popular franchises aren't dumbed down and white-washed to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. And, yes, I'm a bit upset after seeing the treatment Ghost in the Shell, one of my favorite franchises, received. Akira and Cowboy Bebop are next, but I actually like Jordan Peele and Keanu Reeves so I'm crossing my fingers.

pyrophane 10y ago
I think there are still lots of fresh, original movies being made, but they tend to get a bit drowned out by the marketing for all those comic book movies, bad reboots, and whatever Fast/Furious movie is about to come out, so it is easy to think that those are the only things being made. I'm less bothered by the fact that they are still churning out marvel movies at the same rate than I am at how difficult it is to avoid them.
Keyframe 10y ago
Here's Lynda Obst explaining why we're seeing current crap movies (Marvel and alike) predominantly from Hollywood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_oHW31jQfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_oHW31jQfg That's not your average reader/analyst, but someone who knows what they're talking about. It works too, so I wouldn't bet on it disappearing too soon. I think they will, and when they do there will be a spectacular crash as it's a spectacular business success right now.
kosei 10y ago
I think part of the problem is that the cost to produce a movie is so expensive and the risk of creating a new story/IP is large enough that few studios are willing to take that chance. Pixar is one of the few.

WalterBright 10y ago

> formulaic It actually is a formula: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2013/07/hollywood_and_blake_snyder_s_screenwriting_book_save_the_cat.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2013/07/hollyw...