4 ms·

Yes Java is as quick as anything else once it is up and running; the point GP was making was getting to this warmed up state is what makes people perceive java

by rusk 10y ago

Yes Java is as quick as anything else once it is up and running; the point GP was making was getting to this warmed up state is what makes people perceive java as slow.

pjmlp 10y ago
A situation that only occurs if one doesn't make use of JVM that cache JIT code like IBM J9, or willing to pay for an optimizing AOT compiler like Excelsior JET. Also another example is those that perceive the JVM as slow due to using it with Clojure, when the slowness in this case is caused by the Clojure implementation itself.
- matwood 10y ago
  Even without special compilers, most people are using java on the server. Startup time happens once on deploy.
  - akvadrako 10y ago
    ...and much more frequently during development.
- rusk 10y ago
  True but these approaches have never been marketed as part of the java experience
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Only by those that aren't doing Java programming. I use Java since the very early days, and am well aware of them, as are my fellow Java developers, when I work in Java projects.
    - rusk 10y ago
      Aren't you great. As a java developer I am well aware of them too. For most people java == java applets; or "hello world" with `javac Hello.java` and then `java -cp. Hello` followed by some interminable wait while all the apparatus of the JVM is marshalled for the sole purpose of emitting a static string and then exiting. And by interminable I mean 2 or 3 second but still. Even in more enlightened scenarios a REPL on jruby is just eye-wateringly painful unless you've all the "secret speedups" enabled. In many more modern development cultures such secrets are generally looked upon as "Yak Shaving".
cturner 10y ago
You wrote about preceptions in another part of the thread. But that's not what I replied to. The words are above, and it wasn't about perceptions. But on perceptions: naive perceptions don't justify a false statement. So why draw focus to them, why excuse them? Facts trump perceptions.
- rusk 10y ago
  Really? I see perceptions Trump fact all the time …

by rusk 10y ago

Yes Java is as quick as anything else once it is up and running; the point GP was making was getting to this warmed up state is what makes people perceive java as slow.

pjmlp 10y ago

A situation that only occurs if one doesn't make use of JVM that cache JIT code like IBM J9, or willing to pay for an optimizing AOT compiler like Excelsior JET. Also another example is those that perceive the JVM as slow due to using it with Clojure, when the slowness in this case is caused by the Clojure implementation itself.

matwood 10y ago
Even without special compilers, most people are using java on the server. Startup time happens once on deploy.
- akvadrako 10y ago
  ...and much more frequently during development.
rusk 10y ago
True but these approaches have never been marketed as part of the java experience
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Only by those that aren't doing Java programming. I use Java since the very early days, and am well aware of them, as are my fellow Java developers, when I work in Java projects.
  - rusk 10y ago
    Aren't you great. As a java developer I am well aware of them too. For most people java == java applets; or "hello world" with `javac Hello.java` and then `java -cp. Hello` followed by some interminable wait while all the apparatus of the JVM is marshalled for the sole purpose of emitting a static string and then exiting. And by interminable I mean 2 or 3 second but still. Even in more enlightened scenarios a REPL on jruby is just eye-wateringly painful unless you've all the "secret speedups" enabled. In many more modern development cultures such secrets are generally looked upon as "Yak Shaving".

cturner 10y ago

You wrote about preceptions in another part of the thread. But that's not what I replied to. The words are above, and it wasn't about perceptions. But on perceptions: naive perceptions don't justify a false statement. So why draw focus to them, why excuse them? Facts trump perceptions.

rusk 10y ago
Really? I see perceptions Trump fact all the time …