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Western nations aren't exactly standing on a moral high ground, either.
by sunwooz 10y ago
Western nations aren't exactly standing on a moral high ground, either.
- Noseshine 10y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- coldtea 10y agoInvocation of Whataboutism is an easy cop-out to never have to look one's self in the mirror. It's used by people in glass houses who only want to throw stones at their neighbors. It's also not applicable here since the grandparent already did a relative comparison of China with the supposedly better "western track record", so this comparison warrants a response.
- jessaustin 10y agoHaha nothing is as sacred to HN as the enforcement of trendy rhetorical norms. How dare you question the validity of whataboutbobism, sir?
- pvg 10y agoThis argument is of the same quality as those made by people explaining how advocates of racial or gender equality are the real racists/misogynists.
- coldtea 10y agoNo, the argument is more like saying that Germans calling the allies as beasts for what happened to Dresden should also look at what happened to the Jews. The difference, in case you didn't notice, is that while racists are indeed racist and people against racism aren't, here the two sides are equally bad.
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoMoral high ground itself is a fallacy.
- Ericson2314 10y agoI'm curious but not sure exactly what you mean? Practically I think moral high ground is an effective, if difficult to world, way to shut down whataboutism, but philosophically it is weak.
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoTo say X has the moral high ground or X does not have the moral high ground is a variant of "argument from authority" and it's opposite as an ad hominem. It doesn't have any bearing what so ever on the issue at hand.
- mikeash 10y agoAt least we try.
- freshhawk 10y agoHow? What action is taken or statement made that isn't also done in China, or in every country.
- mikeash 10y agoSome examples: https://www.aclu.org/defending-our-rights/court-battles https://www.aclu.org/defending-our-rights/court-battles Countries like China don't tolerate that kind of internal dissent, let alone allow it to win sometimes.
- freshhawk 10y agoExcept in Hong Kong. Obviously liberty for their citizens is the one to pick so the US easily comes out on top. However if you pick percentage of their population they imprison or civilian death toll in expansionist/imperialist conflicts? Or scope of global assassination programs? But a point by point comparison is not really the point here is it? Obviously the American system is more capable of checks and balances than the Chinese system. That arguably makes the massive failures to use them worse. We disagree on what the word "trying" means regarding a state's actions I suppose. That seems fair, it's a fuzzy idea in this context.
- idra 9y agoHong Kong is not China