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Great article, agree with pretty much everything. The one advantage of machines over free weights is that the machine will enforce your form. If you are able

Great article, agree with pretty much everything. The one advantage of machines over free weights is that the machine will enforce your form. If you are able to maintain form with free weights, the effort exerted to do so is an added bonus, but if you aren't, it's not good. I started with machines, and every couple workouts replaced a machine exercise with a free weight exercise. This helped me get started, and let me concentrate on the form on one new exercise at a time.

gb 16y ago
That's also why they're "bad" though, when you let the machine handle your form you aren't getting the full benefit of the exercise.
- gfunk911 16y ago
  Exactly. Good form on free weights > Using a machine > Bad form on free weights. For me, introducing free weights gradually let me concentrate on the form for each one as I first did it.
  - greyboy 16y ago
    I think it's also important to make a distinction about the weight difference between machine and free weight exercises. It's not a 1:1 ratio. It's easy to grunt it out when you don't have to worry about a large, blunt object falling on your face.
    - dhimes 16y ago
      It's also about how fast you can go through a work out. I would do a lot less lifting if I used free weights; machines let me change weight fast. Of course, I'm 48, and when I was 18 I would have laughed at what I just said, because I was powerlifting. But my needs are different now. I do 30 minutes of interval training cardio, and 20 (or so) minutes of weights. I do 2 (maybe 3) sets. The first one is about 12 reps, where I do 4 warm-up reps, 4 at medium weight, at 4 at just-below-what-I'm-lifting-that-day weight (depends where I am in my cycle). I need machines to be able to change the weight "on the fly." Then I do a second set to failure (again, how many reps depends on how much weight I am pushing that week). This quick routine gives me the workout that I am looking for at this point, and I can get it done in the time I am willing to commit (4 days/week). If you don't know what I mean by "where I am in my cycle" (I'm male so it's not that) check out this link: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/tomdesign.html http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/tomdesign.html The only problem is I may be running out of weight on some of the machines. I'll deal with that problem when I get there, though. The more likely result is that I'll lay off the weightlifting for a while and have to "rebuild" before that happens (if, say, I start sailing alot). Edit: typos
- percept 16y ago
  Even worse, machines may enforce unnatural and potentially dangerous form (Smith machines are particularly linear, for example). Free weights can be more forgiving when your form is a bit off (versus being locked into a groove that leads to a pull or tear).
yesimahuman 16y ago
This is why you go slow and use easy weights when starting a new free weight workout. Having bad form can be dangerous (for example, the deadlift), but in general I find that it's just not as effective and that bothers me enough to make my form better.
- matwood 16y ago
  Ah, the dead lift. The single most effective exercise ever invented. I don't remember where I read it, but the quote goes like this: "A kid walked up to me in the gym while I was dead lifting and asked 'what muscle does that work.' I responded by asking the kid 'have you ever watched a football player run across the field and tackle the player with the ball?' The kid responded 'sure.' To that I said 'that muscle.'"
  - jnorthrop 16y ago
    I love that quote -- I think that's a quote from Mike Boyle.
  - tome 16y ago
    The deadlift is great, as is the squat. I certainly feel like the squat is more effective for me because I find it harder! I'm not sure if there's an objective standard on this but I highly recommend both of them.
gfunk911 16y ago
To clarify, I meant that I replace the machine workout with the free weight workout permanently, so that eventually my workout is entirely free weights.
matwood 16y ago
The problem with machines and that most enforce 'bad' form. Every person has their own natural motion that a machine simply cannot match. The best way to learn a free weight exercise is to simply start doing it without any weight. Start squatting and dead lifting with just your body weight (use a broom handle to simulate the bar). Once you get that down start adding weight. There is a very little that a machine will do to help you with exercises like that and in fact it could end up enforcing bad habits.
- thompo 16y ago
  Another thing I'd like to add to this: TAKE VIDEOS. If you're hesitant to bring a point and shoot to the gym, go later at night or before noon when the gym is relatively empty. Share your videos on any of the big lifting forums and ask for opinions. Sure, you can ask a trainer, but if you're lifting at any of the major chain gyms I wouldn't trust a lot of those guys to critique a squat as far as I can throw them. If you're doing a lift with improper form, you might as well not do it at all. The point of maintaining proper form is to not only remain injury free, but to also point out any strength imbalances you might have (weak quads in a deadlift, weak lower lumbar in a squat, etc etc). (example vid, i switched to sumo-stance for deadlifts and wanted to make sure i was doing it right before moving back up in weight -- http://www.imperial.org/~jd/deads275.wmv http://www.imperial.org/~jd/deads275.wmv ) I can respect -anybody- that posts videos and asks for help on form. The amount of weight you're moving is trivial - the fact that you want to focus on your form and perform the lift correctly speaks volumes. I respect the guy squatting 95lbs correctly infinitely more than the guy squatting 405lbs to 25% depth any day of the week.
  - matwood 16y ago
    Great advice! The 2 angles you generally want for a video are the front or back and the direct side angle. Luckily I haven't had to post and vids because I have a trainer friend who is very good at form and correction. He just adjusted a few things in my DLs and I'm closing in on 500lb DL again. I've tried sumos off and on, but I don't they are right for my body type. I have long arms and legs and I just get so much more leverage with the traditional DL. I do sumo holds though as accessory work to keep my glutes firing properly. And yea, the guy quarter squatting is generally a dumb ass. There are times to quarter squat, but for most people they should never need to.
cdr 16y ago
Definitely a great resource. I had never seen that site today, but it agrees again and again with my personal experience and what I've learned from reading.

gb 16y ago

That's also why they're "bad" though, when you let the machine handle your form you aren't getting the full benefit of the exercise.

gfunk911 16y ago
Exactly. Good form on free weights > Using a machine > Bad form on free weights. For me, introducing free weights gradually let me concentrate on the form for each one as I first did it.
- greyboy 16y ago
  I think it's also important to make a distinction about the weight difference between machine and free weight exercises. It's not a 1:1 ratio. It's easy to grunt it out when you don't have to worry about a large, blunt object falling on your face.
  - dhimes 16y ago
    It's also about how fast you can go through a work out. I would do a lot less lifting if I used free weights; machines let me change weight fast. Of course, I'm 48, and when I was 18 I would have laughed at what I just said, because I was powerlifting. But my needs are different now. I do 30 minutes of interval training cardio, and 20 (or so) minutes of weights. I do 2 (maybe 3) sets. The first one is about 12 reps, where I do 4 warm-up reps, 4 at medium weight, at 4 at just-below-what-I'm-lifting-that-day weight (depends where I am in my cycle). I need machines to be able to change the weight "on the fly." Then I do a second set to failure (again, how many reps depends on how much weight I am pushing that week). This quick routine gives me the workout that I am looking for at this point, and I can get it done in the time I am willing to commit (4 days/week). If you don't know what I mean by "where I am in my cycle" (I'm male so it's not that) check out this link: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/tomdesign.html http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/tomdesign.html The only problem is I may be running out of weight on some of the machines. I'll deal with that problem when I get there, though. The more likely result is that I'll lay off the weightlifting for a while and have to "rebuild" before that happens (if, say, I start sailing alot). Edit: typos
percept 16y ago
Even worse, machines may enforce unnatural and potentially dangerous form (Smith machines are particularly linear, for example). Free weights can be more forgiving when your form is a bit off (versus being locked into a groove that leads to a pull or tear).

yesimahuman 16y ago

This is why you go slow and use easy weights when starting a new free weight workout. Having bad form can be dangerous (for example, the deadlift), but in general I find that it's just not as effective and that bothers me enough to make my form better.

matwood 16y ago
Ah, the dead lift. The single most effective exercise ever invented. I don't remember where I read it, but the quote goes like this: "A kid walked up to me in the gym while I was dead lifting and asked 'what muscle does that work.' I responded by asking the kid 'have you ever watched a football player run across the field and tackle the player with the ball?' The kid responded 'sure.' To that I said 'that muscle.'"
- jnorthrop 16y ago
  I love that quote -- I think that's a quote from Mike Boyle.
- tome 16y ago
  The deadlift is great, as is the squat. I certainly feel like the squat is more effective for me because I find it harder! I'm not sure if there's an objective standard on this but I highly recommend both of them.

gfunk911 16y ago

To clarify, I meant that I replace the machine workout with the free weight workout permanently, so that eventually my workout is entirely free weights.

matwood 16y ago

The problem with machines and that most enforce 'bad' form. Every person has their own natural motion that a machine simply cannot match. The best way to learn a free weight exercise is to simply start doing it without any weight. Start squatting and dead lifting with just your body weight (use a broom handle to simulate the bar). Once you get that down start adding weight. There is a very little that a machine will do to help you with exercises like that and in fact it could end up enforcing bad habits.

thompo 16y ago
Another thing I'd like to add to this: TAKE VIDEOS. If you're hesitant to bring a point and shoot to the gym, go later at night or before noon when the gym is relatively empty. Share your videos on any of the big lifting forums and ask for opinions. Sure, you can ask a trainer, but if you're lifting at any of the major chain gyms I wouldn't trust a lot of those guys to critique a squat as far as I can throw them. If you're doing a lift with improper form, you might as well not do it at all. The point of maintaining proper form is to not only remain injury free, but to also point out any strength imbalances you might have (weak quads in a deadlift, weak lower lumbar in a squat, etc etc). (example vid, i switched to sumo-stance for deadlifts and wanted to make sure i was doing it right before moving back up in weight -- http://www.imperial.org/~jd/deads275.wmv http://www.imperial.org/~jd/deads275.wmv ) I can respect -anybody- that posts videos and asks for help on form. The amount of weight you're moving is trivial - the fact that you want to focus on your form and perform the lift correctly speaks volumes. I respect the guy squatting 95lbs correctly infinitely more than the guy squatting 405lbs to 25% depth any day of the week.
- matwood 16y ago
  Great advice! The 2 angles you generally want for a video are the front or back and the direct side angle. Luckily I haven't had to post and vids because I have a trainer friend who is very good at form and correction. He just adjusted a few things in my DLs and I'm closing in on 500lb DL again. I've tried sumos off and on, but I don't they are right for my body type. I have long arms and legs and I just get so much more leverage with the traditional DL. I do sumo holds though as accessory work to keep my glutes firing properly. And yea, the guy quarter squatting is generally a dumb ass. There are times to quarter squat, but for most people they should never need to.

cdr 16y ago

Definitely a great resource. I had never seen that site today, but it agrees again and again with my personal experience and what I've learned from reading.