5 ms·

What benefits would a strong Tech Workers' union to provide? And what percentage of one's income would be membership dues be?

alphonsegaston 10y ago
Floors for wages, combatting H1-B abuse, fighting against toxic cultures driven by an untouchable management class. In terms of dues, unions are democratic, so you can debate, decide, and vote on what you think is appropriate.
- aanm1988 10y ago
  Return to 40 hour work weeks, eliminate unpaid oncall, paid overtime.
cb21 10y ago
Susan Fowler should've had a union to complain to, instead of Uber's hostile HR department.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Susan Fowler should've had a union to complain to, instead of Uber's hostile HR department. As a minority, you can't assume that a union rep is on your side. Especially if the complaint is against someone else at your company who is represented by the same union, if that person is more politically important (within the union) than you are, you're risking a lot - up to and including retaliatory termination of union membership[0] by speaking out. It's your word against theirs, and you're not the one hiring your representative, so you can't be sure that their incentive is to advocate your case to the bitter end, instead of to brush things under the rug. If you want someone who has no conflict of interest to advocate your case, you need a lawyer, not HR or a union representative. At best, the latter will refer you to a lawyer (at which point they're not doing anything for you you couldn't do yourself). At worst, they will cost you your job, and possibly your career[1]. [0] Which, incidentally, is not protected by the same laws that protect retaliatory termination by employers. [1] If you're in an industry that's represented by one single union, having your membership terminated means you should probably start looking for other career options.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    I think we can all agree existing unions need to be made more democratic. If your union rep isn't on your side, they should be replaceable.
    - chimeracoder 10y ago
      > I think we can all agree existing unions need to be made more democratic. If your union rep isn't on your side, they should be replaceable. The problem I'm talking relates to how people in the majority group can politically overpower those in the minority. "Making unions more democratic" doesn't fix that; democracy as a system is literally designed on the principle of the majority (or plurality), not the principle of the minority. Just as an HR representative works for the company (not for you), a union representative serves the people who elected them as a group, not you individually. If you are a minority member, you can't assume that your representative has your best interests in mind. And, by definition, you don't have the political power to replace them.
matt4077 10y ago
Anything you like, basically. Without a a union there's a power imbalance between employer and employee. People say it's all based on mutually agreed contracts. In reality, you are probably much more dependent on your job than the company is on you. That's because they may lose something like 1/1000 of their employees when they fire you, but you lose 100% of your jobs[1]. Unions are a way correct this balance. Employees band together, so that failure to reach an agreement is as painful for the employer as it is for the employee, i. e. (in the worst case) work stops and nobody gets paid. [1]: If you doubt me, try getting Google to come in for 6 interviews and make your future manager do a whiteboard exam.
- poikniok 10y ago
  Well not exactly, you get what other people like, which is generally not what I myself like.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Sure, band together and fix the power balance on your own, but don't force me to join one. I am perfectly OK with "fighting" the power imbalance on my own, using a skill called "negotiating my salary" and "voting with my feet".
  - alphonsegaston 10y ago
    Neither of those things are forbidden by unions. Actors are unionized and negotiate their salaries. And of course you're always free to quit.
    - chimeracoder 10y ago
      > Neither of those things are forbidden by unions. They can be - and most unions do prohibit negotiation with employers. SAG-AFTRA is the exception, not the rule, due mostly to the temporary, part-time, and gig-based nature of their work.
      - alphonsegaston 10y ago

alphonsegaston 10y ago

Floors for wages, combatting H1-B abuse, fighting against toxic cultures driven by an untouchable management class. In terms of dues, unions are democratic, so you can debate, decide, and vote on what you think is appropriate.

aanm1988 10y ago
Return to 40 hour work weeks, eliminate unpaid oncall, paid overtime.

cb21 10y ago

Susan Fowler should've had a union to complain to, instead of Uber's hostile HR department.

chimeracoder 10y ago
> Susan Fowler should've had a union to complain to, instead of Uber's hostile HR department. As a minority, you can't assume that a union rep is on your side. Especially if the complaint is against someone else at your company who is represented by the same union, if that person is more politically important (within the union) than you are, you're risking a lot - up to and including retaliatory termination of union membership[0] by speaking out. It's your word against theirs, and you're not the one hiring your representative, so you can't be sure that their incentive is to advocate your case to the bitter end, instead of to brush things under the rug. If you want someone who has no conflict of interest to advocate your case, you need a lawyer, not HR or a union representative. At best, the latter will refer you to a lawyer (at which point they're not doing anything for you you couldn't do yourself). At worst, they will cost you your job, and possibly your career[1]. [0] Which, incidentally, is not protected by the same laws that protect retaliatory termination by employers. [1] If you're in an industry that's represented by one single union, having your membership terminated means you should probably start looking for other career options.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  I think we can all agree existing unions need to be made more democratic. If your union rep isn't on your side, they should be replaceable.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > I think we can all agree existing unions need to be made more democratic. If your union rep isn't on your side, they should be replaceable. The problem I'm talking relates to how people in the majority group can politically overpower those in the minority. "Making unions more democratic" doesn't fix that; democracy as a system is literally designed on the principle of the majority (or plurality), not the principle of the minority. Just as an HR representative works for the company (not for you), a union representative serves the people who elected them as a group, not you individually. If you are a minority member, you can't assume that your representative has your best interests in mind. And, by definition, you don't have the political power to replace them.

matt4077 10y ago

Anything you like, basically. Without a a union there's a power imbalance between employer and employee. People say it's all based on mutually agreed contracts. In reality, you are probably much more dependent on your job than the company is on you. That's because they may lose something like 1/1000 of their employees when they fire you, but you lose 100% of your jobs[1]. Unions are a way correct this balance. Employees band together, so that failure to reach an agreement is as painful for the employer as it is for the employee, i. e. (in the worst case) work stops and nobody gets paid. [1]: If you doubt me, try getting Google to come in for 6 interviews and make your future manager do a whiteboard exam.

poikniok 10y ago
Well not exactly, you get what other people like, which is generally not what I myself like.
stale2002 10y ago
Sure, band together and fix the power balance on your own, but don't force me to join one. I am perfectly OK with "fighting" the power imbalance on my own, using a skill called "negotiating my salary" and "voting with my feet".
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  Neither of those things are forbidden by unions. Actors are unionized and negotiate their salaries. And of course you're always free to quit.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Neither of those things are forbidden by unions. They can be - and most unions do prohibit negotiation with employers. SAG-AFTRA is the exception, not the rule, due mostly to the temporary, part-time, and gig-based nature of their work.
    - alphonsegaston 10y ago