17 ms·

I kind of wish apartment buildings in the country, just outside of town were a thing. I don't love living in an apartment, but to live in one surrounded by a c

by elihu 10y ago

I kind of wish apartment buildings in the country, just outside of town were a thing. I don't love living in an apartment, but to live in one surrounded by a couple acres of lawn/trees/whatever and maybe some actual fields seems like it would be a lot nicer. (My current apartment happens to overlook a field in the middle of a city. It's great when they plant clover in the spring and the whole thing is bright red for a couple of weeks.)

jitix 10y ago
Isn't that what suburbs are? I live in a suburb and while the apartment buildings are pretty big (but 3 story) they overlook lush greenery.
gedy 10y ago
Wouldn't separated, mini houses be better in that case?
- noja 10y ago
  How would separate houses be better? More to maintain.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    I'd take more maintanence for simple lines of ownership any day. A line in the ground with everything on one side being mine. As far as I can tell, appartment body corps can be a political nightmare and contractors charge a lot for work. Is this because New Zealand hasn't got a long history of apartments or is it difficult everywhere?
    - noja 10y ago
      Even when you're sixty years old?
      - daurnimator 10y ago
        This style of living is probably most popular with the elderly in my area (inner-east melbourne)
      - mason240 10y ago
        Especially when I'm 60, because then I will be at the very end of making mortgage payments AND I will out right own a house.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - lostlogin 10y ago
        It's easy to say when a lot less than that, but hell yes.
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  Better in what sense? Miniature houses are fine but are simply different in a lot of ways compared to apartments. They offer more privacy and space at the expense of, well, expense: apartments are unit-for-unit cheaper to build and cheaper to provide infrastructure for.
- gte525u 10y ago
  Isn't that, in essence, a trailer park?
  - daurnimator 10y ago
    I think the parent poster meant what we call a "Villa Unit". A small 1-2 bedroom house: fit 3-8 on a block. They built a lot of them in the 70s. See e.g. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-villa-vic-camberwell-124976646 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-villa-vic-camberwell-1...
    - mason240 10y ago
      Also called ramblers.
matt4077 10y ago
That's an idea that dominated construction in Europe after the war, and it just didn't work very well. See [1] for one of the better examples. There are others, like the french banlieus, with 20-story apartment towers that basically turned to slums. What works much better, as far as I can tell, is a high-density neighbourhood with park nearby. See [2] for an example from the same city. [1]: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4408185,13.43766,3a,75y,87.23h,87.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV7EZg6vbkUhjPl9iIFC4Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4408185,13.43766,3a,75y,87.23... [2]: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4957626,13.4272094,3a,75y,63.38h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sseoaOfRWBkWR26pP-sKECg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4957626,13.4272094,3a,75y,63....
- vidarh 10y ago
  It works well many places. Maybe not quite 20-story appartment blocks, but Norway has plenty of examples of mid-density 5-6 story apartment complexes in groups pretty much in the middle of nowhere that are popular and function well. I think a key distinction is that to work well these developments needs to be demand driven, and social housing needs to be integrated without being allowed to dominate. Norway has its share of bigger apartment blocks built rapidly right after the war to cover a lot of social housing too, and they tend to have been a bigger problem. But most of the house building in Norway after the war was part funded by government through cheap loans etc., but were managed by private house-building associations that built based on which locations and types of housing was attractive to people. And that's what has driven a lot of the building of areas like the ones mentioned above. So there were fewer large scale attempts at building these huge social housing estates that have served to basically concentrate social problems in some countries. E.g. near where I live now in London we have a couple of major council estates that used to be big problems because they were basically a way of building cheap housing out in the middle of nowhere with no services, and dumping thousands of underprivileged people together there. It was thought of as massively progressive at the time - you built pretty much villages (these estates have their own shopping parades) out in the middle of nowhere. But while many of the people given flats there were regular families, many were also people with additional problems ranging from mental problems through drug/alcohol problems and other issues that contributed to making the estates themselves hotspots of social problems that affected everyone. One of these estates had a life expectancy five years below the UK average for a long time, and it took decades to normalise things there. Currently, partly as a result of financial constraints, partly as a result of harsh lessons like that, most new social housing in London at least comes in form of concessions by developers as part of the planning process that involves much lower concentration of subsidised or council run properties in any development, rather than building these large estates. So I don't think the problem with the more suburban apartment complexes had much to do with the concept, and much more to do with an execution where it was often driven by ideology and totally unproved theories about city planning that were allowed to run amok in the post war period in an urgent need for volume that favoured large projects even when how they affected the integrity of the cities was unproven.
IIAOPSW 10y ago
You just described suburban China. No really. Groups of 5-7 apartment buildings in a field. Its actually kind of weird the first time you see it. China does suburbs vertically.
- mahrain 10y ago
  Only partially, I've seen places like you describe: there will be one or two 'trailblazing' projects but over the next 5-10 years all the surrounding area will develop with malls, more appartments and such.
  - IIAOPSW 10y ago
    I define suburbs roughly as a place where people commute from because it is cheaper than living in the city proper. Sure malls and other small time commerce will develop. Malls also exist to serve traditional American style suburbs. But these places will never be urban centers in their own right. From what I've seen there's a ton of this type of development in China. Admittedly what I've seen of China's country side is mostly out a train window so obviously I'm only seeing places meant to be serviced by trains.
emodendroket 10y ago
A lot of suburban apartment complexes are being built near commuter rails now and they generally have grounds that sound a little like what you're talking about.
l3m0ndr0p 10y ago
In the USA, what you are asking for is called a trailer park. Well, it's layout is horizontal and not stacked vertically. You can get a double-wide trailer for more room too.
ForRealsies 10y ago
You're just describing long-distance commuter wage-slave conditions. Last resort if apartments in the city + SFH's in the burbs are both too expensive.

by elihu 10y ago

jitix 10y ago

Isn't that what suburbs are? I live in a suburb and while the apartment buildings are pretty big (but 3 story) they overlook lush greenery.

gedy 10y ago

Wouldn't separated, mini houses be better in that case?

noja 10y ago
How would separate houses be better? More to maintain.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  I'd take more maintanence for simple lines of ownership any day. A line in the ground with everything on one side being mine. As far as I can tell, appartment body corps can be a political nightmare and contractors charge a lot for work. Is this because New Zealand hasn't got a long history of apartments or is it difficult everywhere?
  - noja 10y ago
    Even when you're sixty years old?
    - daurnimator 10y ago
      This style of living is probably most popular with the elderly in my area (inner-east melbourne)
    - mason240 10y ago
      Especially when I'm 60, because then I will be at the very end of making mortgage payments AND I will out right own a house.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      It's easy to say when a lot less than that, but hell yes.
TulliusCicero 10y ago
Better in what sense? Miniature houses are fine but are simply different in a lot of ways compared to apartments. They offer more privacy and space at the expense of, well, expense: apartments are unit-for-unit cheaper to build and cheaper to provide infrastructure for.
gte525u 10y ago
Isn't that, in essence, a trailer park?
- daurnimator 10y ago
  I think the parent poster meant what we call a "Villa Unit". A small 1-2 bedroom house: fit 3-8 on a block. They built a lot of them in the 70s. See e.g. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-villa-vic-camberwell-124976646 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-villa-vic-camberwell-1...
  - mason240 10y ago
    Also called ramblers.

matt4077 10y ago

That's an idea that dominated construction in Europe after the war, and it just didn't work very well. See [1] for one of the better examples. There are others, like the french banlieus, with 20-story apartment towers that basically turned to slums. What works much better, as far as I can tell, is a high-density neighbourhood with park nearby. See [2] for an example from the same city. [1]: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4408185,13.43766,3a,75y,87.23h,87.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV7EZg6vbkUhjPl9iIFC4Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4408185,13.43766,3a,75y,87.23... [2]: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4957626,13.4272094,3a,75y,63.38h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sseoaOfRWBkWR26pP-sKECg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.de/maps/@52.4957626,13.4272094,3a,75y,63....

vidarh 10y ago
It works well many places. Maybe not quite 20-story appartment blocks, but Norway has plenty of examples of mid-density 5-6 story apartment complexes in groups pretty much in the middle of nowhere that are popular and function well. I think a key distinction is that to work well these developments needs to be demand driven, and social housing needs to be integrated without being allowed to dominate. Norway has its share of bigger apartment blocks built rapidly right after the war to cover a lot of social housing too, and they tend to have been a bigger problem. But most of the house building in Norway after the war was part funded by government through cheap loans etc., but were managed by private house-building associations that built based on which locations and types of housing was attractive to people. And that's what has driven a lot of the building of areas like the ones mentioned above. So there were fewer large scale attempts at building these huge social housing estates that have served to basically concentrate social problems in some countries. E.g. near where I live now in London we have a couple of major council estates that used to be big problems because they were basically a way of building cheap housing out in the middle of nowhere with no services, and dumping thousands of underprivileged people together there. It was thought of as massively progressive at the time - you built pretty much villages (these estates have their own shopping parades) out in the middle of nowhere. But while many of the people given flats there were regular families, many were also people with additional problems ranging from mental problems through drug/alcohol problems and other issues that contributed to making the estates themselves hotspots of social problems that affected everyone. One of these estates had a life expectancy five years below the UK average for a long time, and it took decades to normalise things there. Currently, partly as a result of financial constraints, partly as a result of harsh lessons like that, most new social housing in London at least comes in form of concessions by developers as part of the planning process that involves much lower concentration of subsidised or council run properties in any development, rather than building these large estates. So I don't think the problem with the more suburban apartment complexes had much to do with the concept, and much more to do with an execution where it was often driven by ideology and totally unproved theories about city planning that were allowed to run amok in the post war period in an urgent need for volume that favoured large projects even when how they affected the integrity of the cities was unproven.

IIAOPSW 10y ago

You just described suburban China. No really. Groups of 5-7 apartment buildings in a field. Its actually kind of weird the first time you see it. China does suburbs vertically.

mahrain 10y ago
Only partially, I've seen places like you describe: there will be one or two 'trailblazing' projects but over the next 5-10 years all the surrounding area will develop with malls, more appartments and such.
- IIAOPSW 10y ago
  I define suburbs roughly as a place where people commute from because it is cheaper than living in the city proper. Sure malls and other small time commerce will develop. Malls also exist to serve traditional American style suburbs. But these places will never be urban centers in their own right. From what I've seen there's a ton of this type of development in China. Admittedly what I've seen of China's country side is mostly out a train window so obviously I'm only seeing places meant to be serviced by trains.

emodendroket 10y ago

A lot of suburban apartment complexes are being built near commuter rails now and they generally have grounds that sound a little like what you're talking about.

l3m0ndr0p 10y ago

In the USA, what you are asking for is called a trailer park. Well, it's layout is horizontal and not stacked vertically. You can get a double-wide trailer for more room too.

ForRealsies 10y ago

You're just describing long-distance commuter wage-slave conditions. Last resort if apartments in the city + SFH's in the burbs are both too expensive.