7 ms·

Why Change Is So Hard: Self-Control Is Exhaustible

85 points by raphar 16y ago

ardit33 16y ago
Interesting, but the experiment there seems to be flawed. Cookies have a lot more sugar/glucose than radishes and it changes your blood sugar levels a lot more, so you'd expect right after eating the people that ate cookies will have more energy to persist on the task. It doesn't quite prove what they are trying to prove (that self control and change are exhausting). They should have tried it with something else that was tempting and that was not food.
- eavc 16y ago
  Good point. A simple fix would be to figure out what a normal score on the exercise would be without cookies. If it's the same as with cookies (or close), it's safe to conclude that it's the temptation of the cookies moreso than the sugar that makes the difference. They might have actually done this.
- eavc 16y ago
  There's another study (that I can't find right now, maybe someone will help me) in which self-control was measured by how long someone could keep their arm submerged in icy water. Ones who had their discipline taxed before the exercise performed dramatically worse than those who hadn't. So that one had nothing to do with food and showed similar results.
  - joe_the_user 16y ago
    Yes, there are apparently lots of studies about this. Where would summary of these result be found? Well, here's a couple http://management.ucsd.edu/faculty/seminars/2009/papers/rangel.pdf http://management.ucsd.edu/faculty/seminars/2009/papers/rang... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion
    - eavc 16y ago
      Great find, thank you.
- zasz 16y ago
  Your second sentence sounds like you actually agree with the study. The people with heightened levels of blood sugar pursued the impossible task a lot longer than the people with lower levels of blood sugar. Determination in the face of frustration is an important part of self-control. It sounds like they've showed such determination is tied to blood glucose levels, which certainly do get depleted after difficult tasks.
  - houseabsolute 16y ago
    I don't think that's what they were trying to show, nor do I think it is strongly shown by the study as presented.
    - necrecious 16y ago
      There have been other studies that shows that sugar replenishes self control.
      - houseabsolute 16y ago
        Be that as it may, it has little to do with the discussion at hand.
Jun8 16y ago
This is so true, I know from personal experience. So, since we all start with a fixed amount of self control, better save it for things that make more impact, which is a dynamically changing list from day to day. Example: If you'll be doing tons of boring development today, splurge on the lunch.
- eru 16y ago
  If it was possible to practise having more self-control, you should probably work on a training schedule.
username3 16y ago
Self-control is like a muscle?
stcredzero 16y ago
Self Control is exhaustible, but variable schedule of reward will keep you going until you die! Hmmm.
houseabsolute 16y ago
QQ: Given this, how _is_ it possible to change as a person? For example, you read these rare stories of overweight guys really turning their lives around and becoming all out studs. How do they do something like that?
- georgieporgie 16y ago
  Obesity may directly be the result of physical or psychological problem. Even worse, issues like these can create a feedback loop. You feel worse, so you eat more, so you feel worse, so you eat more. Problems like this may be obvious to outsiders, but completely invisible to the person experiencing it. By learning to recognize your situation and substitute behaviors to form new habits, you can change what you are without necessarily changing who you are.
- dkarl 16y ago
  Self-control only applies to situations where your rational mind overrules irrational impulses. If eating righting and exercising requires self-control, it is because your mind has a deep conviction that it's actually best for you to eat a lot and not exercise. You've figured out the right strategy, but your faith in it is as shallow as your rational mind. At deeper levels, you're still deluded. However, you can deepen your convictions through carefully examined and honestly felt experience. For example, through regular exercise, you can learn to associate exercise with the good feelings and good results it produces. (It's interesting how neatly this meshes with the Buddhist belief that harmful behavior arises from delusion, and that delusion is maintained not only by ignorance but by compulsive doubt of what one rationally knows to be true.) Unfortunately, your false beliefs (exercise is pointless, exercise will make me feel bad, ordering a pizza will make me feel good, I'm not the kind of quality person who exercises and eats right anyway) start to come back when you stop exercising and eating right. I don't believe you can ever completely eradicate them. An addict is always an addict. For some reason, early-imprinted delusions are always more comfortable than our learned wisdom, and we tend to revert to them under stress. So the fight is never-ending, though happily it demands less self-discipline as time passes.
  - _debug_ 16y ago
nhuber 16y ago
I like to think of my self-control as a muscle. Yes, it gets worn out and needs a lazy Sunday every once in a while as the study shows, but at the same time the more I exercise it, the stronger it gets.
Tichy 16y ago
I've heard this from other studies, but this one seems less convincing. Couldn't just be "damn those scientists, they won't even give me cookies. My motivation for trying their task just dropped off a cliff"? At the very least, they could have checked by giving other participants money or no money for doing the task?
deadmansshoes 16y ago
Are peoples' levels of gullibility also exhaustible, or do we have to define a whole swathe of human characteristics based on some students, radishes, and cookies?
joe_the_user 16y ago
All of these snippets are fascinating. I can believe that this is a real phenomena. But every discussion I've read so far seems like a snippet, a gloss, just a bit of information to get me to believe this but not enough for me to feel I understand what's happening. What really qualifies as self control here? Refusing temptation? Concentrating on something? Not following habit? Suppose what I'm used-to is eating radishes but I how good cookies are good? Does anyone have a reference for an article or book that really digs into this subject, give more than or two experiments, gives some quantification or theory or some kind of deeper understanding of this. I'm curious now but frustrated.
goodside 16y ago
As several others have pointed out, the study in this article, as described, is methodologically flawed. Regardless, what they were attempting to show has been established extensively by R. F. Baumeister of Florida State. A good review of the literature is available from Gailliot and Baumeister (2007): http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=12030759983056354922&hl=en&as_sdt=20000000000&as_vis=1 http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=120307599830563549... The abstract: "Past research indicates that self-control relies on some sort of limited energy source. This review suggests that blood glucose is one important part of the energy source of self-control. Acts of self-control deplete relatively large amounts of glucose. Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain (i.e., when insulin is low or insensitive). Restoring glucose to a sufficient level typically improves self-control. Numerous self-control behaviors fit this pattern, including controlling attention, regulating emotions, quitting smoking, coping with stress, resisting impulsivity, and refraining from criminal and aggressive behavior. Alcohol reduces glucose throughout the brain and body and likewise impairs many forms of self-control. Furthermore, self-control failure is most likely during times of the day when glucose is used least effectively. Self-control thus appears highly susceptible to glucose. Self-control benefits numerous social and interpersonal processes. Glucose might therefore be related to a broad range of social behavior."
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
xavoy 16y ago
Irrespective of the legitimacy of this study, it does make a lot of sense. You see a lot of people trying to turn their life around, especially around the new year. Eating healthier foods, doing more exercise, cutting back on alcohol or smoking. You see them a couple of weeks later and the stress levels caused by this amount of change is causing more damage than the unhealthy habits they are trying to break. You see them a month later and they are back to their old habits, and sometimes with a vengeance. I've always advocated slow change. Choose one thing, and just make sure you are mindful of that. Practice this day to day. Don't say "I'll stick it out for three months and see how I go", just take it day to day. Then, a month down the track, see how that person who hasn't eaten fast food for the last thirty days feels about going to Macca's. Maybe, that person would rather have a home made sandwich, or maybe not, but just wait and see and stop telling yourself stories.

85 points by raphar 16y ago

Interesting, but the experiment there seems to be flawed. Cookies have a lot more sugar/glucose than radishes and it changes your blood sugar levels a lot more, so you'd expect right after eating the people that ate cookies will have more energy to persist on the task. It doesn't quite prove what they are trying to prove (that self control and change are exhausting). They should have tried it with something else that was tempting and that was not food.

eavc 16y ago
Good point. A simple fix would be to figure out what a normal score on the exercise would be without cookies. If it's the same as with cookies (or close), it's safe to conclude that it's the temptation of the cookies moreso than the sugar that makes the difference. They might have actually done this.
eavc 16y ago
There's another study (that I can't find right now, maybe someone will help me) in which self-control was measured by how long someone could keep their arm submerged in icy water. Ones who had their discipline taxed before the exercise performed dramatically worse than those who hadn't. So that one had nothing to do with food and showed similar results.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Yes, there are apparently lots of studies about this. Where would summary of these result be found? Well, here's a couple http://management.ucsd.edu/faculty/seminars/2009/papers/rangel.pdf http://management.ucsd.edu/faculty/seminars/2009/papers/rang... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion
  - eavc 16y ago
    Great find, thank you.
zasz 16y ago
Your second sentence sounds like you actually agree with the study. The people with heightened levels of blood sugar pursued the impossible task a lot longer than the people with lower levels of blood sugar. Determination in the face of frustration is an important part of self-control. It sounds like they've showed such determination is tied to blood glucose levels, which certainly do get depleted after difficult tasks.
- houseabsolute 16y ago
  I don't think that's what they were trying to show, nor do I think it is strongly shown by the study as presented.
  - necrecious 16y ago
    There have been other studies that shows that sugar replenishes self control.
    - houseabsolute 16y ago
      Be that as it may, it has little to do with the discussion at hand.

Jun8 16y ago

This is so true, I know from personal experience. So, since we all start with a fixed amount of self control, better save it for things that make more impact, which is a dynamically changing list from day to day. Example: If you'll be doing tons of boring development today, splurge on the lunch.

eru 16y ago
If it was possible to practise having more self-control, you should probably work on a training schedule.

username3 16y ago

Self-control is like a muscle?

stcredzero 16y ago

Self Control is exhaustible, but variable schedule of reward will keep you going until you die! Hmmm.

houseabsolute 16y ago

QQ: Given this, how _is_ it possible to change as a person? For example, you read these rare stories of overweight guys really turning their lives around and becoming all out studs. How do they do something like that?

georgieporgie 16y ago
Obesity may directly be the result of physical or psychological problem. Even worse, issues like these can create a feedback loop. You feel worse, so you eat more, so you feel worse, so you eat more. Problems like this may be obvious to outsiders, but completely invisible to the person experiencing it. By learning to recognize your situation and substitute behaviors to form new habits, you can change what you are without necessarily changing who you are.
dkarl 16y ago
Self-control only applies to situations where your rational mind overrules irrational impulses. If eating righting and exercising requires self-control, it is because your mind has a deep conviction that it's actually best for you to eat a lot and not exercise. You've figured out the right strategy, but your faith in it is as shallow as your rational mind. At deeper levels, you're still deluded. However, you can deepen your convictions through carefully examined and honestly felt experience. For example, through regular exercise, you can learn to associate exercise with the good feelings and good results it produces. (It's interesting how neatly this meshes with the Buddhist belief that harmful behavior arises from delusion, and that delusion is maintained not only by ignorance but by compulsive doubt of what one rationally knows to be true.) Unfortunately, your false beliefs (exercise is pointless, exercise will make me feel bad, ordering a pizza will make me feel good, I'm not the kind of quality person who exercises and eats right anyway) start to come back when you stop exercising and eating right. I don't believe you can ever completely eradicate them. An addict is always an addict. For some reason, early-imprinted delusions are always more comfortable than our learned wisdom, and we tend to revert to them under stress. So the fight is never-ending, though happily it demands less self-discipline as time passes.
- _debug_ 16y ago

nhuber 16y ago

I like to think of my self-control as a muscle. Yes, it gets worn out and needs a lazy Sunday every once in a while as the study shows, but at the same time the more I exercise it, the stronger it gets.

Tichy 16y ago

I've heard this from other studies, but this one seems less convincing. Couldn't just be "damn those scientists, they won't even give me cookies. My motivation for trying their task just dropped off a cliff"? At the very least, they could have checked by giving other participants money or no money for doing the task?

deadmansshoes 16y ago

Are peoples' levels of gullibility also exhaustible, or do we have to define a whole swathe of human characteristics based on some students, radishes, and cookies?

joe_the_user 16y ago

All of these snippets are fascinating. I can believe that this is a real phenomena. But every discussion I've read so far seems like a snippet, a gloss, just a bit of information to get me to believe this but not enough for me to feel I understand what's happening. What really qualifies as self control here? Refusing temptation? Concentrating on something? Not following habit? Suppose what I'm used-to is eating radishes but I how good cookies are good? Does anyone have a reference for an article or book that really digs into this subject, give more than or two experiments, gives some quantification or theory or some kind of deeper understanding of this. I'm curious now but frustrated.

goodside 16y ago

As several others have pointed out, the study in this article, as described, is methodologically flawed. Regardless, what they were attempting to show has been established extensively by R. F. Baumeister of Florida State. A good review of the literature is available from Gailliot and Baumeister (2007): http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=12030759983056354922&hl=en&as_sdt=20000000000&as_vis=1 http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=120307599830563549... The abstract: "Past research indicates that self-control relies on some sort of limited energy source. This review suggests that blood glucose is one important part of the energy source of self-control. Acts of self-control deplete relatively large amounts of glucose. Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain (i.e., when insulin is low or insensitive). Restoring glucose to a sufficient level typically improves self-control. Numerous self-control behaviors fit this pattern, including controlling attention, regulating emotions, quitting smoking, coping with stress, resisting impulsivity, and refraining from criminal and aggressive behavior. Alcohol reduces glucose throughout the brain and body and likewise impairs many forms of self-control. Furthermore, self-control failure is most likely during times of the day when glucose is used least effectively. Self-control thus appears highly susceptible to glucose. Self-control benefits numerous social and interpersonal processes. Glucose might therefore be related to a broad range of social behavior."

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

xavoy 16y ago

Irrespective of the legitimacy of this study, it does make a lot of sense. You see a lot of people trying to turn their life around, especially around the new year. Eating healthier foods, doing more exercise, cutting back on alcohol or smoking. You see them a couple of weeks later and the stress levels caused by this amount of change is causing more damage than the unhealthy habits they are trying to break. You see them a month later and they are back to their old habits, and sometimes with a vengeance. I've always advocated slow change. Choose one thing, and just make sure you are mindful of that. Practice this day to day. Don't say "I'll stick it out for three months and see how I go", just take it day to day. Then, a month down the track, see how that person who hasn't eaten fast food for the last thirty days feels about going to Macca's. Maybe, that person would rather have a home made sandwich, or maybe not, but just wait and see and stop telling yourself stories.