6 ms·

If nothing happens, what was the point then?

by Svip 10y ago

coldtea 10y ago
Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.
- mrcarrot 10y ago
  Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it matches the EU law on the subject. So the answer to your question is, in any and all cases where the UK law doesn't agree with EU laws. EU laws goes above national laws. This is based on "The primacy of EU law" doctrine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#... Here's one particular example upon many: The latest battle is over Brussels’ impending ban on the weedkiller glyphosate, the U.K.’s most widely used pesticide, largely due to political pressure from green groups on the Continent already skeptical of pesticides and certain other new technologies in agriculture. But pulling glyphosate, better known as Roundup, from the market, would be devastating to British farmers who rely on the herbicide to treat weeds. http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decision-adds-to-brexit-momentum-for-uk-farmers/ http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decisio... You really did not know that there has been frequent tension between national laws (in the UK and elsewhere) and EU laws in all kinds of aspects (from labor laws to agriculture and shipping), or were you trolling? (If not from EU or UK I can understand it, because you wouldn't be familiar with the subject matter -- but it's a very common occurence, and a very common theme in the news in EU countries).
    - sangnoir 10y ago
      > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to adopt and enforce EU laws There is no definition or synonym of "wait" that matches your attempt to salvage your initial argument.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        No salvaging, what I wrote above is already in my initial argument. I'm just clarifying it further in case somebody got confused. I wrote: "you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution". This means that (with the exit) the British people can make their own laws and don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make (one size fits all) laws for them. I'm not a native english speaker but I don't think that makes any difference in this case, as the meaning from the above first comment is quite clear (and can hardly be read in another way). What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?
        sangnoir 10y ago
        > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting.. is self-contradicting or is a redefinition of a commonly used, rather straightforward word to suit your purposes.
        coldtea 10y ago
        As I wrote: "What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?" I don't have any nefarious "purposes". If anything, I clarified what I mean in 2 follow-up comments to help anyone stuck up with the phrasing discuss the actual points. If you don't like my use of "having to wait" you can always refer to the other 2 comments, and tell me any counter-arguments you have with my actual point as paraphrased there. Unless you want to stick to criticizing my use of english and avoid any more difficult subjects. I still consider the initial phrasing perfectly valid for what I meant, which is: "UK people don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make laws for them anymore, they can now make their own laws" -- without being forced to automatically comply with any law or directive the EU puts out.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    The EU forbids its member states from reinstating capital punishment; if, for example, the fellow who attacked Parliament last week had lived and the UK wished to execute him it would be unable to. As I recall, EU directives were behind the ban on traditional units of measure in the UK, although that may be incorrect.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Sure. Lets say the UK wants to implement an immigration point system for evaluating which immigrants to let in. They can't do that while being in the EU.
    - ionised 10y ago
      That is a condition that every EU member state abides by. Demanding special treatment and not getting it is not a failing of the EU, but of the UK.
      - stale2002 10y ago
        The question that was asked was "what laws is the UK unable to implement because of the EU". And I gave an example. The EU prevents the UK from making this law. And if the UK wants to pass this law (which it does!!!), then it needs to leave the EU. This is a perfectly valid reason for leaving the EU. Because the EU doesn't let you do this thing that you want to do.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  Why is the national level different to the continental and regional levels? You can apply that same logic to counties: Greater London is very different than Leicestershire. Why should Leicestershire apply laws that are designed to fit London workers? Why can't they make their own laws? Forget counties, why not neighbourhoods? And so on. I'm obviously not serious about this, but the logic doesn't hold just because your nationality is different. The average briton has far more in common with the average french, than the average londoner has in common with the average belfaster.

If nothing happens, what was the point then?

by Svip 10y ago

If nothing happens, what was the point then?

Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.

mrcarrot 10y ago
Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?
- coldtea 10y ago
  >where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it matches the EU law on the subject. So the answer to your question is, in any and all cases where the UK law doesn't agree with EU laws. EU laws goes above national laws. This is based on "The primacy of EU law" doctrine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#... Here's one particular example upon many: The latest battle is over Brussels’ impending ban on the weedkiller glyphosate, the U.K.’s most widely used pesticide, largely due to political pressure from green groups on the Continent already skeptical of pesticides and certain other new technologies in agriculture. But pulling glyphosate, better known as Roundup, from the market, would be devastating to British farmers who rely on the herbicide to treat weeds. http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decision-adds-to-brexit-momentum-for-uk-farmers/ http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decisio... You really did not know that there has been frequent tension between national laws (in the UK and elsewhere) and EU laws in all kinds of aspects (from labor laws to agriculture and shipping), or were you trolling? (If not from EU or UK I can understand it, because you wouldn't be familiar with the subject matter -- but it's a very common occurence, and a very common theme in the news in EU countries).
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to adopt and enforce EU laws There is no definition or synonym of "wait" that matches your attempt to salvage your initial argument.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      No salvaging, what I wrote above is already in my initial argument. I'm just clarifying it further in case somebody got confused. I wrote: "you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution". This means that (with the exit) the British people can make their own laws and don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make (one size fits all) laws for them. I'm not a native english speaker but I don't think that makes any difference in this case, as the meaning from the above first comment is quite clear (and can hardly be read in another way). What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting.. is self-contradicting or is a redefinition of a commonly used, rather straightforward word to suit your purposes.
        coldtea 10y ago
        As I wrote: "What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?" I don't have any nefarious "purposes". If anything, I clarified what I mean in 2 follow-up comments to help anyone stuck up with the phrasing discuss the actual points. If you don't like my use of "having to wait" you can always refer to the other 2 comments, and tell me any counter-arguments you have with my actual point as paraphrased there. Unless you want to stick to criticizing my use of english and avoid any more difficult subjects. I still consider the initial phrasing perfectly valid for what I meant, which is: "UK people don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make laws for them anymore, they can now make their own laws" -- without being forced to automatically comply with any law or directive the EU puts out.
- zeveb 10y ago
  The EU forbids its member states from reinstating capital punishment; if, for example, the fellow who attacked Parliament last week had lived and the UK wished to execute him it would be unable to. As I recall, EU directives were behind the ban on traditional units of measure in the UK, although that may be incorrect.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Sure. Lets say the UK wants to implement an immigration point system for evaluating which immigrants to let in. They can't do that while being in the EU.
  - ionised 10y ago
    That is a condition that every EU member state abides by. Demanding special treatment and not getting it is not a failing of the EU, but of the UK.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      The question that was asked was "what laws is the UK unable to implement because of the EU". And I gave an example. The EU prevents the UK from making this law. And if the UK wants to pass this law (which it does!!!), then it needs to leave the EU. This is a perfectly valid reason for leaving the EU. Because the EU doesn't let you do this thing that you want to do.
scrollaway 10y ago
Why is the national level different to the continental and regional levels? You can apply that same logic to counties: Greater London is very different than Leicestershire. Why should Leicestershire apply laws that are designed to fit London workers? Why can't they make their own laws? Forget counties, why not neighbourhoods? And so on. I'm obviously not serious about this, but the logic doesn't hold just because your nationality is different. The average briton has far more in common with the average french, than the average londoner has in common with the average belfaster.