6 ms·

You haven't been affected by the changes because nothing has happened yet. This is the start of the negotiations to decide what those changes will be. And when

You haven't been affected by the changes because nothing has happened yet. This is the start of the negotiations to decide what those changes will be. And when I say nothing has happened yet, I mean apart from the massive drop in the value of sterling and inflation massively outstripping wage increases. I assume you're based in London, which means you're fairly isolated from the social changes that have happened across the UK in recent years. London is very pro-EU and immigration friendly. The statistics do show a massive increase in race related hate crimes in the UK since the referendum, so even if the vote wasn't racist, it has given racists a confidence boost.

coldtea 10y ago
And I bet you nothing will happen in 2 or 3 or 5 years either. Except for the "massive drop in the value of sterling" which is due to market and media hysteria, which will correct itself.
- Svip 10y ago
  If nothing happens, what was the point then?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.
    - mrcarrot 10y ago
      Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it matches the EU law on the subject. So the answer to your question is, in any and all cases where the UK law doesn't agree with EU laws. EU laws goes above national laws. This is based on "The primacy of EU law" doctrine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#... Here's one particular example upon many: The latest battle is over Brussels’ impending ban on the weedkiller glyphosate, the U.K.’s most widely used pesticide, largely due to political pressure from green groups on the Continent already skeptical of pesticides and certain other new technologies in agriculture. But pulling glyphosate, better known as Roundup, from the market, would be devastating to British farmers who rely on the herbicide to treat weeds. http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decision-adds-to-brexit-momentum-for-uk-farmers/ http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decisio... You really did not know that there has been frequent tension between national laws (in the UK and elsewhere) and EU laws in all kinds of aspects (from labor laws to agriculture and shipping), or were you trolling? (If not from EU or UK I can understand it, because you wouldn't be familiar with the subject matter -- but it's a very common occurence, and a very common theme in the news in EU countries).
        sangnoir 10y ago
        > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to adopt and enforce EU laws There is no definition or synonym of "wait" that matches your attempt to salvage your initial argument.
        coldtea 10y ago
        No salvaging, what I wrote above is already in my initial argument. I'm just clarifying it further in case somebody got confused. I wrote: "you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution". This means that (with the exit) the British people can make their own laws and don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make (one size fits all) laws for them. I'm not a native english speaker but I don't think that makes any difference in this case, as the meaning from the above first comment is quite clear (and can hardly be read in another way). What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      Why is the national level different to the continental and regional levels? You can apply that same logic to counties: Greater London is very different than Leicestershire. Why should Leicestershire apply laws that are designed to fit London workers? Why can't they make their own laws? Forget counties, why not neighbourhoods? And so on. I'm obviously not serious about this, but the logic doesn't hold just because your nationality is different. The average briton has far more in common with the average french, than the average londoner has in common with the average belfaster.
- runholm 10y ago
  If the pound was currently undervalued analysts would be all over that by now. None of the large investors in the world are currently investing hard in British assets. There is nothing indicating that the market will correct itself.
  - lostboys67 10y ago
    Actually there is a bit of M&A going on as Uk firms are now cheap in $ terms
topbanana 10y ago
According to the IMF [1], the pound was already overvalued. In currency markets, it usually takes large news events to prompt large fluctuations but they are just often the trigger, not the underlying cause. [1] http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2016/cr16168.pdf#page=13 http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2016/cr16168.pdf#pag...
ck425 10y ago
Not to mention the majority of people reading HN are in favorable economic situations, so will be among the least effected if/when shit hits the fan. That said there is a large opportunity for change post EU if we go after it. Unfortunately that would require strong unified leadership from the left / non-tories.
- hrehhf 10y ago
  Where did you get data on the economic situation of HN readers?
  - ck425 10y ago
    The assumption that most of us work in technology, likely software engineers or closely related roles, combined with the fact that the average compensation for those roles is above average compared to most jobs and most employers in those areas are fairly international so less effected by local politics, compared to other uk centric companies.
cmdkeen 10y ago
Except "the experts" were predicting terrible things immediately, not later on - remember the punishment budget necessity? Inflation "massively outstripping wages" is just over the Bank of England's target, the one it has been massively under for the past 5 years. The drop in sterling doesn't lead to sustained inflationary pressure. Wages are also picking up as well, though not in the public sector. The "massive increase in race related crime" is also far more complex than newspaper headlines give credit to. The big headlines came from the immediate aftermath 4 days where crimes reported to a website went from 54 to to 85 - i.e. 57%. The police statement on this made the point that it was only a single source that they weren't seeing an increase in community tension - guess what the press went with? The police statistics do bear out an overall increase since the previous year, but by a much lower margin - and in line with year on year increases. The key point though is that in the UK hate crimes are defined as when the victim, or any other person, perceives a crime to be a hate crime - thanks to the legacy of Macpherson. Reported hate crimes have been trending up for years, partly because there has been a massive cultural shift in the police to record them and on people to report them. So, as with all statistics, it is complicated - did more people perceive an increase in hate crimes because they were being told that they were spiking? Has Britain become a more intolerant place or are we just recording better how intolerant we've been for a while? The Civitas report on this makes for interesting reading http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbeh...
- mrcarrot 10y ago
  Surely "experts" were predicting things would change immediately _after the UK leaves the EU_. Which as the GP said, hasn't happened yet.
  - randiantech 10y ago
    Didnt the experts also said that UK not joining the Euro was going to be a catastrophe?
    - mrcarrot 10y ago
lostboys67 10y ago
You mean the areas that have had less immigration than London :-(

coldtea 10y ago

And I bet you nothing will happen in 2 or 3 or 5 years either. Except for the "massive drop in the value of sterling" which is due to market and media hysteria, which will correct itself.

Svip 10y ago
If nothing happens, what was the point then?
- coldtea 10y ago
  Then the point is you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution", especially one designed to fit Germany better because it bullies and controls more lackey states' votes? Also note that by "nothing happens" I mean nothing that negative as the hysteria implies. Not that "nothing at all" happens.
  - mrcarrot 10y ago
    Can you point to any case where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"?
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >where the UK could not make a law that it wanted to because of "having to wait for Brussels"? "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to be handed down to adopt and enforce EU laws. So, wanting to make a law about X, in the sense that UK citizens see it and to their interests? Tough luck, unless it matches the EU law on the subject. So the answer to your question is, in any and all cases where the UK law doesn't agree with EU laws. EU laws goes above national laws. This is based on "The primacy of EU law" doctrine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law#... Here's one particular example upon many: The latest battle is over Brussels’ impending ban on the weedkiller glyphosate, the U.K.’s most widely used pesticide, largely due to political pressure from green groups on the Continent already skeptical of pesticides and certain other new technologies in agriculture. But pulling glyphosate, better known as Roundup, from the market, would be devastating to British farmers who rely on the herbicide to treat weeds. http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decision-adds-to-brexit-momentum-for-uk-farmers/ http://www.politico.eu/article/glyphosate-weedkiller-decisio... You really did not know that there has been frequent tension between national laws (in the UK and elsewhere) and EU laws in all kinds of aspects (from labor laws to agriculture and shipping), or were you trolling? (If not from EU or UK I can understand it, because you wouldn't be familiar with the subject matter -- but it's a very common occurence, and a very common theme in the news in EU countries).
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        > "Having to wait" not as in actually waiting (e.g. as if Brussels would somehow slow down the pace of law-making in the UK) but in the sense UK will have to adopt and enforce EU laws There is no definition or synonym of "wait" that matches your attempt to salvage your initial argument.
        coldtea 10y ago
        No salvaging, what I wrote above is already in my initial argument. I'm just clarifying it further in case somebody got confused. I wrote: "you can make your own laws and not wait for some committee of 20+ countries and some Brussels bureaucrats to decide their "one size fits all solution". This means that (with the exit) the British people can make their own laws and don't have to wait for EU bureaucrats to make (one size fits all) laws for them. I'm not a native english speaker but I don't think that makes any difference in this case, as the meaning from the above first comment is quite clear (and can hardly be read in another way). What exactly do you find difficult to parse, or think that could be read in another way? Care to give us a plausible interpretation of my initial comment that is in a different spirit to my subsequent rephrasing?
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    Why is the national level different to the continental and regional levels? You can apply that same logic to counties: Greater London is very different than Leicestershire. Why should Leicestershire apply laws that are designed to fit London workers? Why can't they make their own laws? Forget counties, why not neighbourhoods? And so on. I'm obviously not serious about this, but the logic doesn't hold just because your nationality is different. The average briton has far more in common with the average french, than the average londoner has in common with the average belfaster.
runholm 10y ago
If the pound was currently undervalued analysts would be all over that by now. None of the large investors in the world are currently investing hard in British assets. There is nothing indicating that the market will correct itself.
- lostboys67 10y ago
  Actually there is a bit of M&A going on as Uk firms are now cheap in $ terms

topbanana 10y ago

According to the IMF [1], the pound was already overvalued. In currency markets, it usually takes large news events to prompt large fluctuations but they are just often the trigger, not the underlying cause. [1] http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2016/cr16168.pdf#page=13 http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2016/cr16168.pdf#pag...

ck425 10y ago

Not to mention the majority of people reading HN are in favorable economic situations, so will be among the least effected if/when shit hits the fan. That said there is a large opportunity for change post EU if we go after it. Unfortunately that would require strong unified leadership from the left / non-tories.

hrehhf 10y ago
Where did you get data on the economic situation of HN readers?
- ck425 10y ago
  The assumption that most of us work in technology, likely software engineers or closely related roles, combined with the fact that the average compensation for those roles is above average compared to most jobs and most employers in those areas are fairly international so less effected by local politics, compared to other uk centric companies.

cmdkeen 10y ago

Except "the experts" were predicting terrible things immediately, not later on - remember the punishment budget necessity? Inflation "massively outstripping wages" is just over the Bank of England's target, the one it has been massively under for the past 5 years. The drop in sterling doesn't lead to sustained inflationary pressure. Wages are also picking up as well, though not in the public sector. The "massive increase in race related crime" is also far more complex than newspaper headlines give credit to. The big headlines came from the immediate aftermath 4 days where crimes reported to a website went from 54 to to 85 - i.e. 57%. The police statement on this made the point that it was only a single source that they weren't seeing an increase in community tension - guess what the press went with? The police statistics do bear out an overall increase since the previous year, but by a much lower margin - and in line with year on year increases. The key point though is that in the UK hate crimes are defined as when the victim, or any other person, perceives a crime to be a hate crime - thanks to the legacy of Macpherson. Reported hate crimes have been trending up for years, partly because there has been a massive cultural shift in the police to record them and on people to report them. So, as with all statistics, it is complicated - did more people perceive an increase in hate crimes because they were being told that they were spiking? Has Britain become a more intolerant place or are we just recording better how intolerant we've been for a while? The Civitas report on this makes for interesting reading http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbeh...

mrcarrot 10y ago
Surely "experts" were predicting things would change immediately _after the UK leaves the EU_. Which as the GP said, hasn't happened yet.
- randiantech 10y ago
  Didnt the experts also said that UK not joining the Euro was going to be a catastrophe?
  - mrcarrot 10y ago

lostboys67 10y ago

You mean the areas that have had less immigration than London :-(