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Are British HN'ers taking any mitigating steps due to this whole situation? I'm currently in the process of incorporating in the Netherlands, and it turns out
by Two9A 10y ago
Are British HN'ers taking any mitigating steps due to this whole situation?
I'm currently in the process of incorporating in the Netherlands, and it turns out setting up a Ltd is a lot more expensive over there than in the UK. I just don't feel that the UK will make good use of my tax receipts any more, so I'm almost obligated to take my work elsewhere.
- ealexhudson 10y agoI'm formally getting EU citizenship (which I'm lucky enough to be entitled to as a citizen of Ireland). There is going to be increased demand for this, particularly as people realise that there is going to be a hard border (which seems inevitable, given the statements on freedom of movement). I won't actually move, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of personal and small businesses move in exactly the way you're suggesting.
- PaulRobinson 10y agoThe letter specifically calls for ensuring there is no hard border.
- creshal 10y agoWhich is just wishful thinking brought onto paper. That part isn't going to be legally binding in any way.
- sammorrowdrums 10y agoIt's virtually impossible to have tight and effective immigration controls, and open EU border. Also if UK ever passes laws that allow produce with EU import restrictions to be available it will mean hard customs border too... NI is at a genuine risk of crisis, or soft Brexit.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago>> NI is at a genuine risk of crisis, or soft Brexit. To be fair, we are in crisis 90% of the time. This just adds fuel to the fire.
- sammorrowdrums 10y agoAt least the assembly is working well... :-O
- VLM 10y agoWhy are EU countries allowed to have borders but the USA cannot? Genuinely curious. On this side of the pond its double plus ungood badthink to support borders of any sort, which makes discussion about the importance of borders in UK/EU sound really weird on this side of the pond.
- dragonwriter 10y ago> Why are EU countries allowed to have borders but the USA cannot? The USA has always had borders, and absolutely is allowed to have them. > On this side of the pond its double plus ungood badthink to support borders of any sort No, it's not. It's just one set of extremists as to what the rules should be at the border portrays any disagreement with them as being opposed to borders (the same group does the same kind of generalization on other issues as well) to avoid engaging in debate about the substance of their proposals on the rules. There's a very small minority of actual open borders supporters, and except for the one group that rhetoricallt conflates that small group with their larger opponents, they basically are irrelevant in policy debate.
- TorKlingberg 10y agoA couple of Daily Mail articles about refugees crossing the border and that could change in a hurry.
- k-mcgrady 10y agoThey can call for whatever they want, it's going to happen in some shape or form. To be honest, any border controls between NI/ROI will be a nightmare for people and with the political situation disintegrating in NI again there couldn't be a worse time for it.
- Someone 10y agoThe letter is written by one of the two parties involved. There's no guarantee that the other party agrees with anything it says, except for things agreed upon earlier; basically the fact that the UK can ask to leave the EU and that a two-year deadline applies.
- david-gpu 10y agoHow are you applying for EU citizenship? All I can find is that it is automatically granted to all Nationals if member states. I.e. if you are Irish then you automatically have EU citizenship. Is there anything else you can do?
- disgruntledphd2 10y agoIf you are from Northern ireland, you have an automatic right to irish (and UK) citizenship. If your parent is Irish, and still alive, if they become a citizen, then you can too. This can be continued down the generations (presumably, but I'm not aware of it happening very often). edit: added UK part
- arethuza 10y agoDoes supporting Scottish independence count?
- ck425 10y agoStrongly considering this. The privacy issues caused by the Tories is also a factor. Thankfully I'm securely enough employed that the economic impact shouldn't be too bad for me personally, if it were to go through.
- gambiting 10y agoI'm not British but I live in the UK - I have based my entire life here, family, house, job, car, everything - and a year ago, I would have never considered leaving, this is my home. But right now, I'm weighting my options. I'm a huge believer in the European Union, so why would I want to live in a country that's not in it? And increasingly, I think the answer is - I wouldn't. So although I haven't started packing yet, if, for example, it turns out I have to get a visa to stay in the country that I consider my home, then I will most likely pack everything and leave to a different EU country that is more welcoming.
- arethuza 10y agoI have had the pleasure over the last few years or working in the UK with so many excellent people from elsewhere in the EU - from Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Germany, Portugal to name a few. It really upsets me that the inclusive welcoming culture that we used to have (not to mention the economic benefits) is being destroyed.
- topbanana 10y agoGetting a visa isn't so onerous is it? Compared with the hassle of upping your roots and moving your family?
- wayn3 10y agoits just an instance of the classic overly emotional "these people dont want me here so fuck them, who are they to ask me to acquire a formality". OP could just as well seek naturalization if hes actually spent his entire life there.
- HenryBemis 10y agoEU Citizen here, living in the UK or "wherever I may roam". I have my Ltd in the UK. I am sticking to the UK for the time being, and will keep a close eye at: 1) Tax scheme/calculations for dividends. 2) Ability to transfer money in & out and at what cost (in the extreme case of Capital Controls or limiting transfers abroad). 3) Exchange Rate of GBP against EUR, USD, and a couple more so I make sure that my payments are not losing 10% on the get-go. All the above are extreme situations. If I feel that my income/finances are threatened, then I will act, otherwise I will continue to support UK economy as UK has been "supporting" me (not really), these years.
- AndrewOMartin 10y agoDo let us know if the GBP ever tumbles against the EUR or USD.
- cs02rm0 10y agoThe EUR hasn't exactly been rock solid against USD in recent years.
- mpweiher 10y agoHmm...it started at $1.1686. And now it is at $1.09, so 6% off.
- cs02rm0 10y agoIt's spent more of its life than not above both figures.
- HenryBemis 10y agoGuys, guys.. no panic and no stress! GBP is not going to "collapse" any day soon (if at all). But if I feel that there is an "incident" imminent (e.g. an important negotiation about to fail, and I am expecting a large payment in GBP, I would still receive it and pay taxes within the UK, but I wouldn't mind receiving it in USD or EUR. Pound was, is, and will remain hard currency.
- Doctor_Fegg 10y ago> Are British HN'ers taking any mitigating steps due to this whole situation? Campaigning for the Liberal Democrats.
- fredley 10y agoIf only there was a snowball's chance in hell of this achieving something. (disclosure: party member)
- chillydawg 10y agoindeed, but NOT campaigning is guaranteeing party death (disclosure: party member). The lib dems are pretty useless right now, but they may have a big swing next election and they need keeping alive until then. Generally, they're the only sane party. Mostly because it's easy to have ideals when you're not in power.
- fredley 10y agoYeah this. The fact they got completely played by the Conservatives in the last coalition, and failed to achieve their main goal (they lost the voting reform referendum they bargained everything away for), I am even more gloomy about the LD's prospects than I am Britain as a whole's. Maybe the Labour party will schism, and a new, strong lib-left party will form. One can but hope.
- gpvos 10y agoIt's really sad that the Brits didn't succeed in getting rid of the first-past-the-post system. Here in the Netherlands with our somewhat extreme version of proportional representation we still have similar problems, but they seem to be much less than over there.
- tomtoise 10y agoWe didn't have a chance at PR. Highly emotive[1] and ridiculous[2] campaigning from the No side saw to that, much in the same way as it saw to Brexit. [1]https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2011/2/25/1298628970292/no-to-av-baby-campaign-005.jpg https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_im... [2]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SkJXglPtoq0/TW6vXWrtyuI/AAAAAAAADOQ/zktt-bbalH4/s1600/Say%2Bno%2Bto%2Bthe%2BAlternative%2BVote%2Bposter%2BHyde%2BTameside.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SkJXglPtoq0/TW6vXWrtyuI/AAAAAAAADO...
- rwmj 10y agoIn the middle of investigating the costs and feasibility of moving to the Far East. The petty racism behind this, plus loss in two years time of my ability to move to any country in the EU, makes me very sad.
- chillydawg 10y agoIf petty racism here annoys you, just you wait til you get to Japan/China/Wherever you're going. Stone ages over there.
- lifty 10y agoAFAIK incorporating in Netherlands is very cheap. You need 1 euro starting capital and the notary fee, which is a few hundred euros. Are you referring to the initial incorporation costs or the ongoing tax burden?
- martinald 10y agoA few hundred euros is a lot more than the UK. You can get the whole thing done in the UK for like £15.
- hasperdi 10y agoYes, but you do get tax breaks if you have a small company, such as Mkb-winstvrijstelling, which is 14% of the profit. There is nothing similar in the UK AFAIK.
- martinald 10y agoIs that income tax or corporate tax? The UK has incredibly generous tax breaks for new companies. SEIS must be the most generous in the world, which for investments of up to £150k allows you to write 50% of the investment off directly against your tax bill and a further 25% if it fails. So in reality, you get a 75% reduction in exposure. Combine this with R&D tax credits and it is a very tax efficient place to run a small tech startup.
- hasperdi 10y agoThat is income / corporate depending on your company legal form. There is a similar tax break for startup as well, it is called startersaftrek. There are R&D credit / subsidies as well.
- antihero 10y agoTo be honest I'm just staring blankly into space and wondering if us Londoners can secede from the rest of the UK somehow.
- themihai 10y agoVery unlikely but not impossible. It reminds me of "Yes California" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California
- cs02rm0 10y agoNo, I'm not. Not sure why you'd feel the UK would make less good use of your tax receipts. UK corporation tax is on the way down. It'd be higher in NL anyway than in the UK. Enjoy the cheaper rates and if you really feel obligated, give the surplus direct to whatever cause you want. I doubt going via the EU is the most efficient way of doing that.
- ownagefool 10y agoIf you live and work in the UK, you are tax domiciled here, irregardless of where you incoperate.
- junto 10y agoThis should be top.
- falsedan 10y agoSure but if your company makes all the money, then you only get the dividend tax rate: 38.1% vs 40-45%, for higher-rate tax payers. Mind, your company has to be paying a pretty low corporate rate for this to make a difference (like if it's incorporated in the Channel Isles).
- ownagefool 10y agoI think you missed my point, which is you are legally unable to do this. Small businesses operating in the UK are required to pay tax within the UK, as is the case with much of Europe. Further, unless the countries have a tax treaty, you might incur double tax and an arrest warrant may be issued if you fail to comply with the rules. Sure, I'm well aware that big companies play games with this sort of thing, but the rules are pretty stingent and your SMB cannot take afvantage of the same complex legal structures.
- falsedan 10y ago> I think you missed my point, which is you are legally unable to do this You missed my point, which is it's 100% legal to do this, it's not unreasonably difficult to do this, and people do this right now. > Small businesses operating in the UK are required to pay tax within the UK So, incorporated in the Netherlands (or elsewhere) and do business there, but subcontract the work to yourself through a UK company that is paid stuff-all (to avoid income/corporate tax). Then take the profits as dividends. > your SMB cannot take afvantage of the same complex legal structures Individuals can take advantage of these loopholes; e.g. most media celebrities do work as an employee of an off-shore incorporated business. Heck, you can get them with a UK business and UK employee (sole trading/contracting), if you can show non-habitual employment (i.e. more than one employer).
- parkersweb 10y agoTo be honest - one of the most disheartening parts of this experience is the lack of coherent opposition to the process being carried out. It's like we've moved quickly from a slender majority in a doubtful referendum to an almost entire acceptance that the consequence must be the 'hard' brexit narrative. The only voices actively trying to counter that are former prime ministers (sorry Tony - right message, really really wrong guy) and the Lib Dems who lack the political presence at the moment. When do we get a meaningful opposition to this?
- k-mcgrady 10y agoI think the problem is that a lot of Brexit support came from the working class - Labour supporters typically. So Labour are left to accept Brexit but push for a soft version which is what they seem to be doing (at least that's how it appeared in PMQ's today). Again though the problem is a lot of their base seem to want a hard Brexit so meaningful opposition with increased support isn't likely.
- legostormtroopr 10y agoWould you ask the same question if the "slender majority" was in your favour? If the referendum yielded a remain vote, would you accept people saying "hang on this margin was really slim, why are we accepting this and why aren't we opposing remaining?" The fact of the matter is this - a referendum was held with the pre-agreed rule that what the majority decided would happen, and the majority of voters voted to leave the EU. So thats what needs to be done, regardless of how "slender" the margin was. All of this talk of "opposition" to Brexit just shows how many people really don't get why the vote happened as it did.
- mdekkers 10y agoLook at Cyprus. Bit more expensive in setting up. Stupidly cost effective at running and taxation, especially when not tax resident.
- d4rti 10y agoI applied for Irish citizenship as a contingency
- ed_balls 10y agoMoving to Switzerland.
- ionised 10y agoLooking into options abroad. I'ma software developer so I have skills in demand in Europe, but the language is a barrier in some places. My girlfriend is Polish and speaks a little German, and I have been considering taking German language lessons. That said, a few people I know have moved to Germany without speaking the language and said they did fine and everyone was really friendly, so perhaps I could learn once I was there.