5 ms·

How I Let Disney Track My Every Move

60 points by jgrahamc 10y ago

silverlight 10y ago
If you're in Disney World, it's safe to assume Disney is tracking you to some degree, Magic Band or no. They have staff. They have cameras everywhere. You sign up for Fast Pass and you buy their food. This isn't some government agency tracking you in your home or in the street where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. My guess is the vast majority of people appreciate the convenience of automatically getting a photo of themselves on a ride. To pull out another example of putting the tracker in the ears hats for kids, please tag my kid every way you can while we're there. My fear of losing them in a busy park far outweighs my concern that you know I took them on the Pooh Bear ride.
- HeavenBanned 10y ago
  Most reasonable response here. So what if they try to extract information from my habits in the park, don't they want to improve? Don't I want them to be a better place to have fun? For chrissakes it's a goddamn theme park for children, people shouldn't let their privacy get in the way of their fun. If they find out that people who partake of X ride are 100 fold more likely to get corn dogs, am I really fucking suffering? Really? There's a time and appropriate place for everything related to privacy. How about the "Patriot" Act? That's a more pressing issue for cryin' out loud. It doesn't normalize anything. We are not stupid and should be able to differentiate when someone (gov't entity, what have you) oversteps their bounds. Not Disney World. Proportions, people. Proportions.
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9177105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9177105 (This is a longer article about the history of the thing.)
wfunction 10y ago
What could you possibly be doing that is so private on Disney premises and that makes you freak out about tracking? They know you're in the park, they might as well know when you're in the bathroom or eating lunch or taking a ride. It's not like they're tracking you after you leave (or are they?)...
- M_Grey 10y ago
  More importantly, they must be pretty aware of the fact that they'll be tracking minors, and all that entails. They know that their lifeblood is their reputation for being utterly family-friendly. At the end of the day, it's just... it's like complaining about being surveilled in a museum.
- clouddrover 10y ago
  > What could you possibly be doing that is so private on Disney premises and that makes you freak out about tracking? I think it's more the principle of the thing. Why would you want to be tagged and tracked like an animal? I wouldn't want to be. I agree with Edward Snowden: "When you say I don’t care about the right to privacy because I have nothing to hide, that is no different than saying I don’t care about freedom of speech because I have nothing to say or freedom of the press because I have nothing to write."
  - wfunction 10y ago
    > Why would you want to be tagged and tracked like an animal? I wouldn't want to be. If that's how you think I should look at it, then, actually, yeah, I do. I have a huge problem with the way some animals are tagged and tracked, so if this bears any resemblance to it, it's only fair we go through it too. Not that it actually does, though.
    - clouddrover 10y ago
      You've got a huge problem with the way animals are tagged and tracked, but then conclude that people should also be tagged and tracked? That doesn't make any sense. If you've got a problem with it, why aren't you arguing for no tagging and tracking of animals and people?
    - wingerlang 10y ago
      > I have a huge problem with the way some animals are tagged and tracked What is the issue with this?
craigkerstiens 10y ago
The article pretty heavily misses a lot of the points that many guests view as a benefit. Had they not been evacauted from splash mountain they would have had a photograph of their exact moment before going down the plume. Similarly certain restaurants know where you're sitting and deliver food based on the magic bands. Recently actually when riding on Haunted mansion it knew we were from California and had a hitch hiking ghost looking to head to California. It's not to say they're not tracking you, but the tracking especially in such a closed city/community shows some of the positive smooth experiences that can be delivered when you know all those details about a person.
tonetheman 10y ago
I have been to Disney quite a bit and I find the bands amazing. And yes I realize I am being tracked. But there is something magical when you get on the haunted house ride and the ghosts know you... Super use of the tech for entertainment.
LeoPanthera 10y ago
The Magic Band is amazing. We spent our anniversary at Disney World and the thing is a payment method, your park tickets, your room keys, and also holds your fast passes. I had no expectations of privacy in a public theme park and I'm not sure anyone else should either. They made the visit so much better. Would use again.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  I really enjoyed having the band on my wrist the entire afternoon at the pool and not having to worry about losing my room key in the towel bin or carrying wet cash to the snack bar. I actually was more impressed with the RFID drink cups and mugs that are rolling out at some of the resorts: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/disney-refillable-mugs/ http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/disney-refillable-mugs/ http://www.validfill.com/product/ http://www.validfill.com/product/
mgamache 10y ago
I have no problem with Disney tracking me on their property while I am there. Do we know what happens to the fingerprints and photos after we leave? In isolation, the Disney tracking is innocuous even cool, but it comes with risk that the data will be stored / forwarded to entities of which we are unaware. Sorry if I am unnecessarily alarmist. I visited Disney back a few years ago (pre Snowden) and mortified my wife by declining the fingerprint tracking (had to talk with a 'supervisor'). I am not sure you can decline these days.
- robocaptain 10y ago
  This is an important point.
emmab 10y ago
If you use android, take a look at https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
dsfyu404ed 10y ago
Magic Band is a great example of consumer tracking done right. The band is not a biometric, it doesn't require an app that tracks you at all other times and it used to actually improve service, not just serve up adds and 10% coupons.
- mgamache 10y ago
  Are you sure the park is not matching your band with photos of you captured by the network of cameras around the park? The band is not biometric, but it enables biometric tracking.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  Fingerprint scans are mandatory for all adult guests seeking to enter the parks. The biometric is linked to the ticket permanently to prevent ticket sharing. This is true whether you use the Band or a card at the turnstile.
greggman 10y ago
I went to Disneyworld a month ago. My first thought when they scanned my finger prints was "bet that was forwarded to the government so they can easily unlock my phone" As for why they do it, it's to make sure you don't share a pass. Buy 2 passes, 2 people go in. 1 person comes out with 2 passes. Goes back in with extra person, repeat. They don't scan you on the way out. They could but it would be annoying (and maybe illegal?) to have to line up to get out of the parks.
- cyberpunk 10y ago
  I'm pretty much at a loss for words.. Disneyworld scanned your fingerprints? You let them? What happens if you say no?
  - NeutronBoy 10y ago
    > What happens if you say no? They don't let you in
    - cyberpunk 10y ago
      I can't even really put into words how crazy that is. How long this been going on and why are people putting up with this? Why isn't this a huge controversy? Am I in the minoriy by being completely shocked by this? I wouldn't let my government do this to me without a court order I could challenge, and there's a children's theme park doing this thousands of times daily with no opposition? This wouldn't be possible in europe.
      - StephenConnell 10y ago
        I was just thinking that Sea World San Diego took finger prints Las summer when we went. I googled it and on the first result there is a comment from 2007 from someone mentioning the same. http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/borrowing-tickets-for-seaworld.cfm http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/borrowing-tick...
apaprocki 10y ago
I'm in Disney right now using the band for everything and from the consumer point of view it is great. Don't have any misconceptions about it -- at the "Be Our Guest" lunch you order via touch screen and then they tell you to sit anywhere you want in the cavernous three joined dining halls. Magically your food finds you quickly without ever speaking to a human. Why? Because you're in an enchanted castle, duh!
michaelbuckbee 10y ago
The article doesn't ask this, but I think it's kind of obvious: is this the future we want everywhere? The majority of us are already carrying around personally identifiable smartphones with both long and short range antennas. The tech to both do the tracking and to the phones themselves are getting cheaper every year. Would we be ok going to a local restaurant, tapping to pay and then they just find us? Or with Amazon's (prototype) wander in, put stuff in a bag and wander out stores? Heck even the just passed "make your ISP data available to marketers" is I'm sure couched in this this same manner: we'll make things easier, we'll show you better ads, etc. Disneyland feels more like a prototype of what to come than anything else.
- eridius 10y ago
  Disneyland is a small integrated ecosystem and is entirely voluntary. I think it's quite reasonable for Disney to keep tabs on all of their guests while they're in the park. But that same level of surveillance doesn't belong out in the public.
breakingcups 10y ago
What would happen if you snuck in a jammer? Would half the park just shut down?

60 points by jgrahamc 10y ago

If you're in Disney World, it's safe to assume Disney is tracking you to some degree, Magic Band or no. They have staff. They have cameras everywhere. You sign up for Fast Pass and you buy their food. This isn't some government agency tracking you in your home or in the street where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. My guess is the vast majority of people appreciate the convenience of automatically getting a photo of themselves on a ride. To pull out another example of putting the tracker in the ears hats for kids, please tag my kid every way you can while we're there. My fear of losing them in a busy park far outweighs my concern that you know I took them on the Pooh Bear ride.

HeavenBanned 10y ago
Most reasonable response here. So what if they try to extract information from my habits in the park, don't they want to improve? Don't I want them to be a better place to have fun? For chrissakes it's a goddamn theme park for children, people shouldn't let their privacy get in the way of their fun. If they find out that people who partake of X ride are 100 fold more likely to get corn dogs, am I really fucking suffering? Really? There's a time and appropriate place for everything related to privacy. How about the "Patriot" Act? That's a more pressing issue for cryin' out loud. It doesn't normalize anything. We are not stupid and should be able to differentiate when someone (gov't entity, what have you) oversteps their bounds. Not Disney World. Proportions, people. Proportions.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9177105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9177105 (This is a longer article about the history of the thing.)

wfunction 10y ago

What could you possibly be doing that is so private on Disney premises and that makes you freak out about tracking? They know you're in the park, they might as well know when you're in the bathroom or eating lunch or taking a ride. It's not like they're tracking you after you leave (or are they?)...

M_Grey 10y ago
More importantly, they must be pretty aware of the fact that they'll be tracking minors, and all that entails. They know that their lifeblood is their reputation for being utterly family-friendly. At the end of the day, it's just... it's like complaining about being surveilled in a museum.
clouddrover 10y ago
> What could you possibly be doing that is so private on Disney premises and that makes you freak out about tracking? I think it's more the principle of the thing. Why would you want to be tagged and tracked like an animal? I wouldn't want to be. I agree with Edward Snowden: "When you say I don’t care about the right to privacy because I have nothing to hide, that is no different than saying I don’t care about freedom of speech because I have nothing to say or freedom of the press because I have nothing to write."
- wfunction 10y ago
  > Why would you want to be tagged and tracked like an animal? I wouldn't want to be. If that's how you think I should look at it, then, actually, yeah, I do. I have a huge problem with the way some animals are tagged and tracked, so if this bears any resemblance to it, it's only fair we go through it too. Not that it actually does, though.
  - clouddrover 10y ago
    You've got a huge problem with the way animals are tagged and tracked, but then conclude that people should also be tagged and tracked? That doesn't make any sense. If you've got a problem with it, why aren't you arguing for no tagging and tracking of animals and people?
  - wingerlang 10y ago
    > I have a huge problem with the way some animals are tagged and tracked What is the issue with this?

craigkerstiens 10y ago

The article pretty heavily misses a lot of the points that many guests view as a benefit. Had they not been evacauted from splash mountain they would have had a photograph of their exact moment before going down the plume. Similarly certain restaurants know where you're sitting and deliver food based on the magic bands. Recently actually when riding on Haunted mansion it knew we were from California and had a hitch hiking ghost looking to head to California. It's not to say they're not tracking you, but the tracking especially in such a closed city/community shows some of the positive smooth experiences that can be delivered when you know all those details about a person.

tonetheman 10y ago

I have been to Disney quite a bit and I find the bands amazing. And yes I realize I am being tracked. But there is something magical when you get on the haunted house ride and the ghosts know you... Super use of the tech for entertainment.

LeoPanthera 10y ago

The Magic Band is amazing. We spent our anniversary at Disney World and the thing is a payment method, your park tickets, your room keys, and also holds your fast passes. I had no expectations of privacy in a public theme park and I'm not sure anyone else should either. They made the visit so much better. Would use again.

joezydeco 10y ago
I really enjoyed having the band on my wrist the entire afternoon at the pool and not having to worry about losing my room key in the towel bin or carrying wet cash to the snack bar. I actually was more impressed with the RFID drink cups and mugs that are rolling out at some of the resorts: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/disney-refillable-mugs/ http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/disney-refillable-mugs/ http://www.validfill.com/product/ http://www.validfill.com/product/

mgamache 10y ago

I have no problem with Disney tracking me on their property while I am there. Do we know what happens to the fingerprints and photos after we leave? In isolation, the Disney tracking is innocuous even cool, but it comes with risk that the data will be stored / forwarded to entities of which we are unaware. Sorry if I am unnecessarily alarmist. I visited Disney back a few years ago (pre Snowden) and mortified my wife by declining the fingerprint tracking (had to talk with a 'supervisor'). I am not sure you can decline these days.

robocaptain 10y ago
This is an important point.

emmab 10y ago

If you use android, take a look at https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

dsfyu404ed 10y ago

Magic Band is a great example of consumer tracking done right. The band is not a biometric, it doesn't require an app that tracks you at all other times and it used to actually improve service, not just serve up adds and 10% coupons.

mgamache 10y ago
Are you sure the park is not matching your band with photos of you captured by the network of cameras around the park? The band is not biometric, but it enables biometric tracking.
cookiecaper 10y ago
Fingerprint scans are mandatory for all adult guests seeking to enter the parks. The biometric is linked to the ticket permanently to prevent ticket sharing. This is true whether you use the Band or a card at the turnstile.

greggman 10y ago

I went to Disneyworld a month ago. My first thought when they scanned my finger prints was "bet that was forwarded to the government so they can easily unlock my phone" As for why they do it, it's to make sure you don't share a pass. Buy 2 passes, 2 people go in. 1 person comes out with 2 passes. Goes back in with extra person, repeat. They don't scan you on the way out. They could but it would be annoying (and maybe illegal?) to have to line up to get out of the parks.

cyberpunk 10y ago
I'm pretty much at a loss for words.. Disneyworld scanned your fingerprints? You let them? What happens if you say no?
- NeutronBoy 10y ago
  > What happens if you say no? They don't let you in
  - cyberpunk 10y ago
    I can't even really put into words how crazy that is. How long this been going on and why are people putting up with this? Why isn't this a huge controversy? Am I in the minoriy by being completely shocked by this? I wouldn't let my government do this to me without a court order I could challenge, and there's a children's theme park doing this thousands of times daily with no opposition? This wouldn't be possible in europe.
    - StephenConnell 10y ago
      I was just thinking that Sea World San Diego took finger prints Las summer when we went. I googled it and on the first result there is a comment from 2007 from someone mentioning the same. http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/borrowing-tickets-for-seaworld.cfm http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/borrowing-tick...

apaprocki 10y ago

I'm in Disney right now using the band for everything and from the consumer point of view it is great. Don't have any misconceptions about it -- at the "Be Our Guest" lunch you order via touch screen and then they tell you to sit anywhere you want in the cavernous three joined dining halls. Magically your food finds you quickly without ever speaking to a human. Why? Because you're in an enchanted castle, duh!

michaelbuckbee 10y ago

The article doesn't ask this, but I think it's kind of obvious: is this the future we want everywhere? The majority of us are already carrying around personally identifiable smartphones with both long and short range antennas. The tech to both do the tracking and to the phones themselves are getting cheaper every year. Would we be ok going to a local restaurant, tapping to pay and then they just find us? Or with Amazon's (prototype) wander in, put stuff in a bag and wander out stores? Heck even the just passed "make your ISP data available to marketers" is I'm sure couched in this this same manner: we'll make things easier, we'll show you better ads, etc. Disneyland feels more like a prototype of what to come than anything else.

eridius 10y ago
Disneyland is a small integrated ecosystem and is entirely voluntary. I think it's quite reasonable for Disney to keep tabs on all of their guests while they're in the park. But that same level of surveillance doesn't belong out in the public.

breakingcups 10y ago

What would happen if you snuck in a jammer? Would half the park just shut down?