5 ms·

Believe it or not, a positive attitude isn't the magic ingredient to immortality, any more than a lack of skepticism helps a psychic work better. Science is a b

by M_Grey 10y ago

Believe it or not, a positive attitude isn't the magic ingredient to immortality, any more than a lack of skepticism helps a psychic work better. Science is a beautiful edifice, in part because it works in spite of attitude and expectation. The world can laugh at you while you putter away in your shed, but if you can fly at the end of the day, you're going down in history. The only thing that needs a positive attitude and a suspension of disbelief is fraud.

JoshTriplett 10y ago
Suspension of disbelief doesn't make science go better, but science that doesn't get popular support or widespread credibility doesn't get funded as readily, or accepted as quickly, or treated as urgent. And an excess of incredulity can become fear and rejection. 150,000 people die every day. That's bigger than a moderate-sized city. That's not a problem to casually get around to maybe thinking about in the perpetual "a few years from now but really never"; that's a problem we should be devoting a substantial part of our total resources to.
- nradov 10y ago
  Why? There's no reason other than wishful thinking to expect that devoting substantially more resources would actually deliver significant life extension.
  - JoshTriplett 10y ago
    There are many such reasons to expect that research would produce good results, including past research that already has, and ongoing research that continues to.
    - nradov 10y ago
      No past research has ever pushed up the maximum age of humans. It remains at about 124. There has been no progress in that field. Other medical research has helped prevent people from dying early and that's certainly worth continuing. But that's not what we're discussing here.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        The past and ongoing research lets us understand in more details the processes that make humans have the maximum age. Unless you believe ~124 is a hard limit mandated by God himself (which, BTW., is something that the Bible says explicitly), that research is crucial to eventually overcoming the limit. Is there anything you believe that makes life extention a problem that's impossible to solve? Because if not, it's always a matter of throwing more resources at it.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        There are other problems that show indications of having solutions, and which could realistically be applied to most or all humans. The dream of being an immortal Martian might be an appealing one, but it is no less a distraction or a religion at this point than people paying for salvation in Scientology or looking to the pope for an indulgence. I understand that this is something that's almost impossible to accept though.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Personally I'm not having much hope of either standing on Mars or living past the age of 100, but I do believe those - and others - are problems that need attention and serious resource investments. It pains me to see just how much productivity on this planet is wasted on utterly pointless things, when big problems affecting us all remain almost unaddressed.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        Well we're in total agreement then, just with slightly different perspectives. I think if we were both told to come to a mutual decision about a plan for the future of humanity, the plans would resemble each other more than anything. Space is the future if we live that long, and longevity is an issue that needs to be addressed. In the near-term though, we're on the bubble of losing our civilization in the next century or so and we need to put that fire out now.

by M_Grey 10y ago

JoshTriplett 10y ago

Suspension of disbelief doesn't make science go better, but science that doesn't get popular support or widespread credibility doesn't get funded as readily, or accepted as quickly, or treated as urgent. And an excess of incredulity can become fear and rejection. 150,000 people die every day. That's bigger than a moderate-sized city. That's not a problem to casually get around to maybe thinking about in the perpetual "a few years from now but really never"; that's a problem we should be devoting a substantial part of our total resources to.

nradov 10y ago
Why? There's no reason other than wishful thinking to expect that devoting substantially more resources would actually deliver significant life extension.
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  There are many such reasons to expect that research would produce good results, including past research that already has, and ongoing research that continues to.
  - nradov 10y ago
    No past research has ever pushed up the maximum age of humans. It remains at about 124. There has been no progress in that field. Other medical research has helped prevent people from dying early and that's certainly worth continuing. But that's not what we're discussing here.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      The past and ongoing research lets us understand in more details the processes that make humans have the maximum age. Unless you believe ~124 is a hard limit mandated by God himself (which, BTW., is something that the Bible says explicitly), that research is crucial to eventually overcoming the limit. Is there anything you believe that makes life extention a problem that's impossible to solve? Because if not, it's always a matter of throwing more resources at it.
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        There are other problems that show indications of having solutions, and which could realistically be applied to most or all humans. The dream of being an immortal Martian might be an appealing one, but it is no less a distraction or a religion at this point than people paying for salvation in Scientology or looking to the pope for an indulgence. I understand that this is something that's almost impossible to accept though.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Personally I'm not having much hope of either standing on Mars or living past the age of 100, but I do believe those - and others - are problems that need attention and serious resource investments. It pains me to see just how much productivity on this planet is wasted on utterly pointless things, when big problems affecting us all remain almost unaddressed.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        Well we're in total agreement then, just with slightly different perspectives. I think if we were both told to come to a mutual decision about a plan for the future of humanity, the plans would resemble each other more than anything. Space is the future if we live that long, and longevity is an issue that needs to be addressed. In the near-term though, we're on the bubble of losing our civilization in the next century or so and we need to put that fire out now.