6 ms·

With all respect, it is the parents responsibility, not youtube or jontron, to make sure their little angel is not drinking in racist rants.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
That's a laudable attitude, but its feasibility is rapidly eroding in this always-connected world. Can't watch over the little angel's shoulder to see what's on their phone 24x7.
- sqeaky 10y ago
  I think it is less about filtering what a kid sees and more about preparing children for the crazy shit the world can throw at kids without meaning too. For any adult looking at PewDiePie's shenanigans it is clear that he isn't actually supporting organized racism, or if he is he is astoundingly bad at it (perhaps as bad at being funny. But to a an unprepared kid (or dumb adult) this stuff can seem shocking and the jokes might be missed on them. PewDiePie simply didn't care some kids might see and wasn't concerned about it. Parents can prepare their kids and create open environments where the kids can ask questions. If done right the parent can create situations where they can simply explain that PewDiePie lacks good taste when the kid asks what its going on. This is a bunch of idealist rubbish, but at least a few parents have done it.
jrkatz 10y ago
For an extreme example, suppose stormfront camps outside your child's school passing out leaflets and having fun, racist singalongs. How can it be your responsibility when they're in an area that is effectively outside your control? Sure, once you find out about it you can pull them from school but this requires first that you find out about it, which you may not be able to do until they come home singing the 14 words to a Wagner melody. It is impossible to effectively police all the media your child might consume unless you plan to isolate them from the world at large. Hell, jontron was innocuous for a while. A parent could have reviewed his entire oeuvre up to a point, however many days of video it would have required, and decided it was alright. Until a week ago, when suddenly it was not alright! And by the time a parent is aware of it and is shielding their children from it, they have already been exposed, at least for a bit. Jontron built an audience when he was safe and failed the responsibility he adopted when he decided to influence children by exposing them to his abhorrent views, and there was very little a parent could do about it. Moreover, it's not just about _my_ kids being exposed to racist bullshit. I also want for _other_ kids to be shielded from it (this is beyond my power without going to the source of the bullshit and shutting it down directly). Otherwise, my kids may still be cursed to live in a world where they are threatened for their heritage.
- jimmyk 10y ago
  Why are you worried that your children will be threatened for their heritage in a world where children can be exposed to a diversity of opinion, including those you don't approve of? Do you think you'll lose the war of ideas to "bullshit"?
  - jrkatz 10y ago
    I'm worried because my children will have the same Jewish heritage I have, and while it is not likely reason will lose the day, it is possible. Even a slim chance is worth taking very seriously. It's like giant, apocalyptic asteroids. Odds are one won't hit the Earth in our time, and if it's on track to odds are we won't be able to stop it. We're still looking out for them.
    - jimmyk 10y ago
      We're not exactly spending hundreds of billions each year on asteroid mitigation programs. From what I can tell, the total spending at least in the US is at most in the hundreds of millions annually. If the odds of an impact were vastly higher, we probably would spend hundreds of billions each year. If we knew an impact was coming, we'd spend nearly every cent we had trying to stop it. Given the sheer magnitude of outrage which predictably follows "racist bullshit" being publicly displayed, I can infer, if people are acting somewhat near rationally, that they rate the chance of "racist bullshit" winning the day somewhat higher than "slim". Do you agree with that? If so, why are you worried about reason losing the day? Is it the quality of your ideas that you find lacking, or the reasoning power of the people around you?
      - jrkatz 10y ago
        To be clear, you are laying out the premise that by reacting to racism at all, I am revealing I secretly believe it is more right than anti-racism. Does that sound about right? Why are you so eager to police anti-racism, then? By the same logic, if racism is right you'll be fine.
soundwave106 10y ago
Google right now is having a bit of a public relations issue with advertisers, regarding advertisements being placed in front of controversial content in Youtube. Several companies already have suspended ads. I'm sure most mainline corporate advertisers don't want to be associated with seemingly "sponsoring" neo-Nazi content / hate speech or other extremist content (eg radical Islaimc / IS videos), which if the articles I see are right (example: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/20/trouble-brewing-google-youtube-europe-advertising-british-media-outlets/99410760/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/20/trouble-b...) they sometimes do. Managing that is Google / Youtube's responsibility. It'll be interesting what they do. The "outrage crowd" probably matters less to Google than the hit to the pocketbook, I think.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

That's a laudable attitude, but its feasibility is rapidly eroding in this always-connected world. Can't watch over the little angel's shoulder to see what's on their phone 24x7.

sqeaky 10y ago
I think it is less about filtering what a kid sees and more about preparing children for the crazy shit the world can throw at kids without meaning too. For any adult looking at PewDiePie's shenanigans it is clear that he isn't actually supporting organized racism, or if he is he is astoundingly bad at it (perhaps as bad at being funny. But to a an unprepared kid (or dumb adult) this stuff can seem shocking and the jokes might be missed on them. PewDiePie simply didn't care some kids might see and wasn't concerned about it. Parents can prepare their kids and create open environments where the kids can ask questions. If done right the parent can create situations where they can simply explain that PewDiePie lacks good taste when the kid asks what its going on. This is a bunch of idealist rubbish, but at least a few parents have done it.

jrkatz 10y ago

For an extreme example, suppose stormfront camps outside your child's school passing out leaflets and having fun, racist singalongs. How can it be your responsibility when they're in an area that is effectively outside your control? Sure, once you find out about it you can pull them from school but this requires first that you find out about it, which you may not be able to do until they come home singing the 14 words to a Wagner melody. It is impossible to effectively police all the media your child might consume unless you plan to isolate them from the world at large. Hell, jontron was innocuous for a while. A parent could have reviewed his entire oeuvre up to a point, however many days of video it would have required, and decided it was alright. Until a week ago, when suddenly it was not alright! And by the time a parent is aware of it and is shielding their children from it, they have already been exposed, at least for a bit. Jontron built an audience when he was safe and failed the responsibility he adopted when he decided to influence children by exposing them to his abhorrent views, and there was very little a parent could do about it. Moreover, it's not just about _my_ kids being exposed to racist bullshit. I also want for _other_ kids to be shielded from it (this is beyond my power without going to the source of the bullshit and shutting it down directly). Otherwise, my kids may still be cursed to live in a world where they are threatened for their heritage.

jimmyk 10y ago
Why are you worried that your children will be threatened for their heritage in a world where children can be exposed to a diversity of opinion, including those you don't approve of? Do you think you'll lose the war of ideas to "bullshit"?
- jrkatz 10y ago
  I'm worried because my children will have the same Jewish heritage I have, and while it is not likely reason will lose the day, it is possible. Even a slim chance is worth taking very seriously. It's like giant, apocalyptic asteroids. Odds are one won't hit the Earth in our time, and if it's on track to odds are we won't be able to stop it. We're still looking out for them.
  - jimmyk 10y ago
    We're not exactly spending hundreds of billions each year on asteroid mitigation programs. From what I can tell, the total spending at least in the US is at most in the hundreds of millions annually. If the odds of an impact were vastly higher, we probably would spend hundreds of billions each year. If we knew an impact was coming, we'd spend nearly every cent we had trying to stop it. Given the sheer magnitude of outrage which predictably follows "racist bullshit" being publicly displayed, I can infer, if people are acting somewhat near rationally, that they rate the chance of "racist bullshit" winning the day somewhat higher than "slim". Do you agree with that? If so, why are you worried about reason losing the day? Is it the quality of your ideas that you find lacking, or the reasoning power of the people around you?
    - jrkatz 10y ago
      To be clear, you are laying out the premise that by reacting to racism at all, I am revealing I secretly believe it is more right than anti-racism. Does that sound about right? Why are you so eager to police anti-racism, then? By the same logic, if racism is right you'll be fine.

soundwave106 10y ago

Google right now is having a bit of a public relations issue with advertisers, regarding advertisements being placed in front of controversial content in Youtube. Several companies already have suspended ads. I'm sure most mainline corporate advertisers don't want to be associated with seemingly "sponsoring" neo-Nazi content / hate speech or other extremist content (eg radical Islaimc / IS videos), which if the articles I see are right (example: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/20/trouble-brewing-google-youtube-europe-advertising-british-media-outlets/99410760/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/20/trouble-b...) they sometimes do. Managing that is Google / Youtube's responsibility. It'll be interesting what they do. The "outrage crowd" probably matters less to Google than the hit to the pocketbook, I think.