4 ms·

> "Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit." That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counter

by doktrin 10y ago

> "Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit." That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills.

creshal 10y ago
They have a relatively high value and are easily faked (currently no bimetal design like the £2 coin or 1/2 Euro coins) – and nobody looks for counterfeit coins.
bigbugbag 10y ago
Due to the lower value the risk is also much lower, apart from vending machines who actually checks coins for fake and refuse them ? For a merchant the cost of annoying a potentially unaware customer is more than the value of the coin that he will probably simply give back to another customer as change. Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany.
- lordnacho 10y ago
  > Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany. I paid for a 17K CHF car with 17 notes once. The Swiss trust their money completely.
mootothemax 10y ago
> That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills. If no one's checking for counterfeit coins, and the users themselves don't know they exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome opportunity for the counterfeiters. Just take a look at the number of comments here saying the same thing as you - from a counterfeiter's perspective, it sounds pretty ideal.
- TillE 10y ago
  But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? You've invested all this money and effort in minting equipment, but it would look extremely weird to spend more than like 20 at once. Unless they can fool machines, it seems very inefficient.
  - mootothemax 10y ago
    > But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? Launder them through your other criminal activities. "Hey, you want to be paid for all the drugs you've sold recently? You can have 500 in 'real' or 1,000 in fake notes + coins."
    - falsedan 10y ago
      I think you'll find most people drug dealers interact with don't take kindly to being passed funny money.
      - palunon 10y ago
        The supplier/street vendor relationship is not the same as the street vendor/drug user one. Also, this is not a case of the supplier trying to con its "client", but one of choice. "Would you prefer real or or more in fake ?"
  - lb1lf 10y ago
    My best bet, after mulling this over for a few minutes is that the fake coins are sold in bulk to people who handle lots of small change - kiosks, fast-food joints etc - then they just mix them in with the real money in the register for giving change.
    - clubm8 10y ago
      What I want to know is why would you counterfeit (serious charge) when you can use a similar looking coin? For example I was given a South African 5 Rand coin in my change in Amsterdam (should have been a €2 coin): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-rand.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-rand.JPG Broke a 20 getting intoxicated in a bar/coffeeshop, then bought a kebab after on my walk back. Kebab shop was only place I got metal change that night. I didn't notice until the next day when a coffee place threw a fuss when I used it to pay for my espresso. I suspect they often mix them in for drunk tourists.
chippy 10y ago
>Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30. Equals the market in counterfeit coins. From http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-... £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is, however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.
- londons_explore 10y ago
  It also depends on the rate the counterfeits are being removed from circulation by bank sorting machines.
iNerdier 10y ago
I work on a market stall in London at the weekends. In my experience it's probably higher than that, you get given some really ropey ones but everyone just treats them normally because there's so many in circulation the banks don't even bother to reject them. I can totally see why they're replacing it.

by doktrin 10y ago

creshal 10y ago

They have a relatively high value and are easily faked (currently no bimetal design like the £2 coin or 1/2 Euro coins) – and nobody looks for counterfeit coins.

bigbugbag 10y ago

Due to the lower value the risk is also much lower, apart from vending machines who actually checks coins for fake and refuse them ? For a merchant the cost of annoying a potentially unaware customer is more than the value of the coin that he will probably simply give back to another customer as change. Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany.

lordnacho 10y ago
> Try using an actual real 500€ bill anywhere else than Germany. I paid for a 17K CHF car with 17 notes once. The Swiss trust their money completely.

mootothemax 10y ago

> That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills. If no one's checking for counterfeit coins, and the users themselves don't know they exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome opportunity for the counterfeiters. Just take a look at the number of comments here saying the same thing as you - from a counterfeiter's perspective, it sounds pretty ideal.

TillE 10y ago
But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? You've invested all this money and effort in minting equipment, but it would look extremely weird to spend more than like 20 at once. Unless they can fool machines, it seems very inefficient.
- mootothemax 10y ago
  > But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? Launder them through your other criminal activities. "Hey, you want to be paid for all the drugs you've sold recently? You can have 500 in 'real' or 1,000 in fake notes + coins."
  - falsedan 10y ago
    I think you'll find most people drug dealers interact with don't take kindly to being passed funny money.
    - palunon 10y ago
      The supplier/street vendor relationship is not the same as the street vendor/drug user one. Also, this is not a case of the supplier trying to con its "client", but one of choice. "Would you prefer real or or more in fake ?"
- lb1lf 10y ago
  My best bet, after mulling this over for a few minutes is that the fake coins are sold in bulk to people who handle lots of small change - kiosks, fast-food joints etc - then they just mix them in with the real money in the register for giving change.
  - clubm8 10y ago
    What I want to know is why would you counterfeit (serious charge) when you can use a similar looking coin? For example I was given a South African 5 Rand coin in my change in Amsterdam (should have been a €2 coin): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-rand.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5-za-rand.JPG Broke a 20 getting intoxicated in a bar/coffeeshop, then bought a kebab after on my walk back. Kebab shop was only place I got metal change that night. I didn't notice until the next day when a coffee place threw a fuss when I used it to pay for my espresso. I suspect they often mix them in for drunk tourists.

chippy 10y ago

>Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30. Equals the market in counterfeit coins. From http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-... £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is, however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.

londons_explore 10y ago
It also depends on the rate the counterfeits are being removed from circulation by bank sorting machines.

iNerdier 10y ago

I work on a market stall in London at the weekends. In my experience it's probably higher than that, you get given some really ropey ones but everyone just treats them normally because there's so many in circulation the banks don't even bother to reject them. I can totally see why they're replacing it.