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Yeah, this is clearly out of date. "Experimented with Git" is the highest level in the version control row? Git is the standard now and has been for years. I t

Yeah, this is clearly out of date. "Experimented with Git" is the highest level in the version control row? Git is the standard now and has been for years. I think a bigger issue, though, is that some of these skills are very valuable, and some of these skills are the ones companies hire on, and those two sections are not always the same. Personally, I see myself as being somewhere around the n level on the algorithms stuff, but well into the log(n) level at the engineering/communication stuff. I've harped over and over on the weirdness of prioritizing theory knowledge over practical skill in day-to-day jobs where the practical is what matters - it's nice to see all the different dimensions so clearly laid out and given (roughly) equal attention.

pjmlp 10y ago
> Git is the standard now and has been for years. Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. I am yet to do a project at a Fortune 500 among our customers that isn't based in Subversion or TFS. I have been using Git only on personal projects.
- alexbanks 10y ago
  > Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. In the last year I've built internal-only systems for two Global Fortune 100 companies, both of them in Git. I believe you are very incorrect.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    You forgot to read the part "among our customers".
    - closed 10y ago
      I don't think they forgot anything. You mention your observations among your customers, in order to support a more general point. They are questioning whether that generalization follows from your observations (using observations of their own).
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        For these customers it doesn't follow "Git is the standard now and has been for years.".
        alexbanks 10y ago
        Right. I am asserting that your experiences are not the norm, but in fact outliers. Which means that Git is the norm, and those that do not use it are outliers. Basically the opposite of your original claim.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        To see who is actually right, we would need to take a measurement of SCM systems across all Fortune 500 companies. Writing statements about Git's adoptin on HN posts don't make them into facts, unless they are baked by actual numbers. The fact is that both of us are wrong, because neither of us have the data of those 500 companies, only anecdotes.
        coldtea 10y ago
        >The fact is that both of us are wrong, because neither of us have the data of those 500 companies, only anecdotes. That would make both of you undecided. But one of you is right and the other wrong.
        alexbanks 10y ago
        Nope. I didn't make any claims that "all" Fortune 500 companies, or even "most" Fortune 500 companies use Git. You said, verbatim: > Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. This statement is _factually_ incorrect. None of the companies I've worked for/done work for/communicated with were in SV and _all_ of them used Git. AKA it is in fact _not_ just "a few SV darlings," because the companies I've mentioned that use Git were neither of those things.
        pjmlp 10y ago
  - khedoros1 10y ago
    Ditto. Newer projects at my employer use git. Anything older than about 3 years old uses Perforce. On the other hand, I think we left CVS under 5 years ago.
  - Wildgoose 10y ago
    At the over £1.2 billion turnover company where I am currently working there is Subversion, CVS and even some ancient code in SCCS. Git is being considered, but for now Subversion rules.
    - iLemming 10y ago
      Even in companies of size of Google most devs nowadays rarely deal with SVN directly, they use git->svn bridges. So yeah, Git is a de-facto standard. And it's not for the sake of Github.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  By TFS you mean Microsoft's one? If so, it binds to Git now.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Yes, but they just use the plain centralized version.
- mtreis86 10y ago
  Walmart, GE, HP, JP Morgan, IBM
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I am pretty sure they aren't using 100% Git across all departments.
    - dagw 10y ago
      I am 100% sure they aren't using 100% anything across all departments.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        Which makes "Git is the standard now and has been for years." pretty much false, right?
- devonkim 10y ago
  I've worked with customers, clients, and partners throughout the Fortune 100 and public sector for my career and there's one thing that is consistent - there is NO consistency. Big companies have TONS of software from all sorts of places across their decades of M&A and partial-failure development efforts and re-orgs. The open source world is much more of a hive mind than big companies in many respects compared to programmers oftentimes locked in dungeons unable to escape their legacy codebases, tools, and architectures for arcane reasons like a manager liking the tie of a salesperson more than another. From a technical standpoint I'm constantly amazed at the sheer diversity / museum of stuff that'll get deployed to prod in the Fortune 100. Sure, 80%+ of the stuff made in the past 15 years is all Java crud, but the nice thing about that is that dropping wars into an application container is a very solved problem. I don't have to really think during another 90s-style deployment where more difficult problems are metaphysical like if I'm actually still myself from 20 years ago dreaming very hard that I'm living 20 years in the future and this is a side-effect of my 90s frame of mind.
dhimes 10y ago
hg FTW!
coldtea 10y ago
>Yeah, this is clearly out of date. "Experimented with Git" is the highest level in the version control row? Git is the standard now and has been for years. You'd be surprised. The vast majority of enterprise programmers have neither used it nor care to.

pjmlp 10y ago

> Git is the standard now and has been for years. Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. I am yet to do a project at a Fortune 500 among our customers that isn't based in Subversion or TFS. I have been using Git only on personal projects.

alexbanks 10y ago
> Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. In the last year I've built internal-only systems for two Global Fortune 100 companies, both of them in Git. I believe you are very incorrect.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  You forgot to read the part "among our customers".
  - closed 10y ago
    I don't think they forgot anything. You mention your observations among your customers, in order to support a more general point. They are questioning whether that generalization follows from your observations (using observations of their own).
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      For these customers it doesn't follow "Git is the standard now and has been for years.".
      - alexbanks 10y ago
        Right. I am asserting that your experiences are not the norm, but in fact outliers. Which means that Git is the norm, and those that do not use it are outliers. Basically the opposite of your original claim.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        To see who is actually right, we would need to take a measurement of SCM systems across all Fortune 500 companies. Writing statements about Git's adoptin on HN posts don't make them into facts, unless they are baked by actual numbers. The fact is that both of us are wrong, because neither of us have the data of those 500 companies, only anecdotes.
        coldtea 10y ago
        >The fact is that both of us are wrong, because neither of us have the data of those 500 companies, only anecdotes. That would make both of you undecided. But one of you is right and the other wrong.
        alexbanks 10y ago
        Nope. I didn't make any claims that "all" Fortune 500 companies, or even "most" Fortune 500 companies use Git. You said, verbatim: > Only in the open source world and a few SV darlings. This statement is _factually_ incorrect. None of the companies I've worked for/done work for/communicated with were in SV and _all_ of them used Git. AKA it is in fact _not_ just "a few SV darlings," because the companies I've mentioned that use Git were neither of those things.
        pjmlp 10y ago
- khedoros1 10y ago
  Ditto. Newer projects at my employer use git. Anything older than about 3 years old uses Perforce. On the other hand, I think we left CVS under 5 years ago.
- Wildgoose 10y ago
  At the over £1.2 billion turnover company where I am currently working there is Subversion, CVS and even some ancient code in SCCS. Git is being considered, but for now Subversion rules.
  - iLemming 10y ago
    Even in companies of size of Google most devs nowadays rarely deal with SVN directly, they use git->svn bridges. So yeah, Git is a de-facto standard. And it's not for the sake of Github.
marcosdumay 10y ago
By TFS you mean Microsoft's one? If so, it binds to Git now.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Yes, but they just use the plain centralized version.
mtreis86 10y ago
Walmart, GE, HP, JP Morgan, IBM
- pjmlp 10y ago
  I am pretty sure they aren't using 100% Git across all departments.
  - dagw 10y ago
    I am 100% sure they aren't using 100% anything across all departments.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Which makes "Git is the standard now and has been for years." pretty much false, right?
devonkim 10y ago
I've worked with customers, clients, and partners throughout the Fortune 100 and public sector for my career and there's one thing that is consistent - there is NO consistency. Big companies have TONS of software from all sorts of places across their decades of M&A and partial-failure development efforts and re-orgs. The open source world is much more of a hive mind than big companies in many respects compared to programmers oftentimes locked in dungeons unable to escape their legacy codebases, tools, and architectures for arcane reasons like a manager liking the tie of a salesperson more than another. From a technical standpoint I'm constantly amazed at the sheer diversity / museum of stuff that'll get deployed to prod in the Fortune 100. Sure, 80%+ of the stuff made in the past 15 years is all Java crud, but the nice thing about that is that dropping wars into an application container is a very solved problem. I don't have to really think during another 90s-style deployment where more difficult problems are metaphysical like if I'm actually still myself from 20 years ago dreaming very hard that I'm living 20 years in the future and this is a side-effect of my 90s frame of mind.

dhimes 10y ago

hg FTW!

coldtea 10y ago

>Yeah, this is clearly out of date. "Experimented with Git" is the highest level in the version control row? Git is the standard now and has been for years. You'd be surprised. The vast majority of enterprise programmers have neither used it nor care to.