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China is spending billions on soft power

81 points by matteuan 10y ago

obstinate 10y ago
This is going to sound flippant, but I mean it very seriously. This is a much better way to spend money than spending billions to make the world hate you.
- herbst 10y ago
  IMO you are absolutely right. There is nothing flippant about that when it just reflects the truth
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  You have your numbers wrong. The US does spend... Well, hundreds of billions on making the world love US. The actual problem is two-fold: 1. We spend trillions on making them hate the US. 2. We aren't actually very efficient with the hundreds of billions we spend on making them love the US. It's spent on short-sighted projects that often transparently benefit the US at the cost of the locals. To some degree, this is getting better with leadership from eg, The Gates Foundation, but we could wield our economic power much more efficiently. These problems stem from a fundamental lack of leadership in the US: the US population are emotional-high junkies who are led by a bunch of spineless, selfish people. This is crippling the US, at home and abroad, because we are unable to do anything but lurch between emotional highs, are unable to have an actual vision for the future (and make reasonable plans to see it through), and are unable to wield our power effectively. The US is trapped in short-term optimization thinking because of the junky behavior of its population.
  - herbst 10y ago
    What kind of efforts are you talking a out? From my perspective the hate against the US. is only growing with barely anything holding against that.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      The US spends huge amounts on food, medicine, and development aid -- 32 billion a year in economic investments (as opposed to military, which is another 10 billion a year). Since 9/11, the US has probably spent around 500 billion on helping countries develop, fighting famines, curing diseases, etc. We've just also spent something like 3 or 4 trillion on ineffective and damaging wars, spy programs, etc. My point is that we're spending the money on goodwill already, we'rr just undermining it with other actions and not spending it effectively.
      - herbst 10y ago
        I guess that is why this happens totally unnoticed to many other western countries, if you cut it down to percentage on national income this is nothing compared to anyone else. On that scale United Arab Emirates did 6 times as much as the U.S. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/09/foreign-aid-which-countries-are-the-most-generous https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...
        SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. Could you explain?
        herbst 10y ago
        I was wondering which affords the U.S. makes to be more loved in world. Your example is something that obviously nobody speaks about in other western countries as it is way less they contribute on a %/countries income factor than anyone else. Nearly every country does a lot of foreign aid, the U.S. just happens to be one of those who do less than others so that surely does not help their global image.
        SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        Everyone I've ever spoken to who was serious about foreign aid and development spending was aware of the US, because they spend much more thab those nations by dollars. I think you're just making a tangential nationalist dig, because this tangent has nothing to do with the US a) getting recognized for their work in poor countries (they do) or b) being able to use their money more effectively (which is what I was talking about).
- tim333 10y ago
  I've wondered if there was some way to demonstrate it was smarter than say military spending. Looking briefly it seems the US spends $26bn/yr on non military aid and about $600bn on military stuff. I'd guess if they spend $500bn on military and another $100bn on soft power / direct cash to the starving etc the world would be safer and happier. How to prove it for the budget controlling politicians though? I mean $40bn for the 40m at risk of starvation in Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia given directly would not only stop starvation but pull the whole region out of poverty and do more to make people think the US cool than spending that on nukes they don't need say.
hasenj 10y ago
I wonder how much Japan spends on that front, or if it's even official state policy to make the world love it.
- cJ0th 10y ago
  Probably quite a lot. I am subscribed to the Quartz newsletter and they often have a paragraph which is headed "Sponsor content by The Government of Japan" which I always find slightly amusing.
- tvanantwerp 10y ago
  Where I live in DC, there are plenty of Japanese cultural events that I'm confident are funded in part by their government. My wife studies Chado, an intricate Japanese tea ceremony, and the cost-per-lesson is ridiculously low. No way they could charge so little if they weren't being subsidized from somewhere.
- jonnathanson 10y ago
  Cultural promotion isn't a uniquely Chinese phenomenon. I'd guess that most countries with the cash to spend will spend at least something on promoting and sponsoring cultural awareness abroad. Or their tourism bureaus will advertise in target markets. The crucial difference with China is the magnitude of the investment. It rises to the level of strategically significant state priority.
diego_moita 10y ago
Smart move, the path is wide open for China. The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always". As a non-American I'd argue that "me first" are words that a leader should never say, even when it is what he always believed. I might start learning Mandarin, someday.
- vtange 10y ago
  As opposed to China? They don't say it, but they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two. Does China maintain a friendly policy toward refugees and minorities? Sure, they do enact policy for the environment, but it's heavily sold on cutting their own smog and air pollution. "Let other countries settle things bilaterally without interference" were China's words originally, not Trump's. One could even say Trump is America's most Chinese president, considering his proposal to build a "Great, great wall" (his words, not mine)[1] and proposal to up America's military by nearly double digits to mimic China's recent years. [2] [1] http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ [2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defence-spending-donald-trump-boosts-military-budget/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defen...
  - diego_moita 10y ago
    As a non-American I have a very different understanding of American role in the world. I don't buy the whole concept of "American exceptionalism". I don't believe that America's actions in the world are moved just by benevolent preoccupations. > they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two I totally agree, but that is what every country, tribe and empire has done for thousands of years. I don't expect anyone to be different. My issue is about how you sell it. Soft power (the theme of the article) comes from the empire sales pitch, from being able to convince others that you are being good when you are protecting your assets. Again: my point is not what you are, is what you sell. And the "art of the deal" president is actually a very bad salesman. This is an overture for the Chinese. No, I don't "trust" China as much as I don't "trust" America.
- deleted 10y ago
Blahah 10y ago
Paywalled article, so hope this is relevant. Here in Kenya, infrastructure investment by the Kenyan government is very poor. Whatever money gets theoretically assigned to things like building and maintenance of roads and the power and water grids usually goes missing at various stages until the final project, if implemented at all, is shoddy. Enter China, who have been directly funding infrastructure here. They are managing the supply chain and personnel themselves, and it's having a huge effect. Beautiful roads have sprung up around Nairobi in the last year especially, built using modern techniques and quality materials. One can't help but wonder what concessions the Chinese government will eventually come looking for in return, because it's pretty certain that the debt will never be repaid in money.
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  A friend of mine spent a few years working in a few different places in Africa. He said that the impression of the locals was that the Chinese are the new colonizers, full stop. The labor conditions and treatment of African workers on Chinese run projects was really bad, and the out-and-out racism by the Chinese was crazy.
  - molikto 10y ago
    https://www.quora.com/Is-China-colonizing-Asia-and-Africa/answer/Robin-Daverman?srid=o11a https://www.quora.com/Is-China-colonizing-Asia-and-Africa/an...
    - leesalminen 10y ago
      Case in point... that read like propaganda to me.
      - elefanten 10y ago
        Yes. Glance through the author's other articles and a very clear pattern emerges.
      - mazerackham 10y ago
ajross 10y ago
It's a digression (because honestly the fact that China markets itself is not hugely notable, nor "bad" or "good" no matter how effective or ineffective it might be), but: Toward the bottom of this article is a favorability chart of China in different nations. And there is a huge crater (like 37% to 5%) in Chinese support among the Japanese between 2011-2013. Other nationalities see a little blip, but nothing like this. What happened between China and Japan in 2011? I'm genuinely ignorant.
- Cuuugi 10y ago
  This is just one data point, and i am far from an expert in the area, but the Senkaku islands are controlled by China, and Japan thinks its theirs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands
  - khc 10y ago
    The first sentence in your linked page clearly says it's controlled by Japan. It's ok to not be an expert but at least read the links you post yourself.
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  Japan's conservative party (LDP) retook power following the mishandling of Fukushima, and proceeded with a full court press of their textbook nationalism. This includes constantly vilifying the Chinese and Koreans, although they have little to do with the internal problems plaguing Japan.
- vtange 10y ago
  This is a good article on that in a nutshell: http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-... Lots of things have been happening between the two countries for a while now, not since 2011. As others have said, there is a territorial dispute that to the best of my knowledge really flared up when Japan actively nationalized the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. China's moves in the South China Sea have not made things better. Aside from that, China blocked rare earth minerals to Japan in 2010. [1] There have been numerous boycotts by China (to the point of outright vandalism of Japanese cars, business property) over political issues [2] There is always the whole WW2 apology issue (over comfort women, wartime crimes, etc.) In 2015, China made a jab at Japan during their 70th anniversary of WW2 victory. [3] On the bright side, China did help Japan out during the big earthquake/tsunami of 2011. [4] [1] http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/08/18/did-china-really-ban-rare-earth-metals-exports-to-japan/ http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/08/18/did-china-really-ban... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2012-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2... [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2012-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2... [4] http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134567659/china-acts-fast-in-aiding-japan-post-earthquake http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134567659/china-acts-fast-in-a...
KaoruAoiShiho 10y ago
It's not nearly enough, it needs to be trillions for it to catch up to America.
neves 10y ago
The difference between a communist and a capitalist society. With Hollywood, the USA profits billions to make the world love it. :-)
- jacob019 10y ago
  So true.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  I mean, China does have an active movie industry, as well. Along with Hong Kong, which many just collate with China heh India has Bollywood. Both have garnered quite a following in the West thanks to that.
  - gragas 10y ago
    I almost burst out laughing. China and India are nowhere close to the US movie industry's influence around the world.
- realusername 10y ago
  China is only communist in name nowadays, they even have a stock market.
- herbst 10y ago
  Could be sarcasm but I don't Really see how one thing has to do anything with the other
  - slededit 10y ago
    Churchill famously remarked the film Ms. Miniver was worth, "either five battleships or 50 destroyers". Hollywood has immense propaganda value and is very effective at exporting American culture. It is independent though, which gives it some grounding.
    - herbst 10y ago
shimon_e 10y ago
Dear China, No need to spend billions. Just don't cancel my flight one week before I depart and everything will be fine!!! :[
amgin3 10y ago
If they really want people to like them, they really need to teach their citizens how to behave before they travel, or prevent them from traveling altogether. Maybe force them to take a mandatory etiquette class or something.
- paganel 10y ago
  The same goes for the English youth who get wasted in different Southern European countries. The only two times when I got verbally harassed on the street while I was minding my own business (I'm talking as an adult) happened on a Greek island during the summer months, on both cases the culprits were English guys in their late-teens, early-20s we were drunk out of their minds.
  - amgin3 10y ago
    Chinese tour groups are notorious for disrespecting and/or destroying everything they come in contact with. I've had to personally deal with them in several countries and it is never a pleasant experience.
- herbst 10y ago
  Same could be said about Americans. I rather be cut in lines from some old Chinese ladies than have Americans shouting disrespectful stuff next to me. In fact Chinese people seem to be aware and respectful of local cultures usually, something that can't be said about Americans. Source: Digitalnomad in SEA
- dang 10y ago
  This breaks HN's civility guideline. You can't post comments attacking entire populations here. Please don't do it again.
kitschshrine 10y ago
so China is - lead by a billionnaire dictator and son of veteran communist party member, who has shown to purge his enemies, jail innocents/reporters without trial, disappear others. He oppresses the will of hong kongers to self govern, and acts like a crybaby whenever Taiwan, a self-governing democracy, does anything political - controlled by a "congress" of billionnaires, who work together to exploit workers for pennies on the dollar, turn a blind eye to deadly air pollution/water pollution/poisonous food in favor of money, and when in danger, flees to Australia/Canada/US with billions - member in WTO, but never abides by any of the rules. Foreign companies are forced to give up tech, partner with locals, suffer 30% import tax, and eventually, leave due to unfairness. And other countries loses factories/jobs/communities. Internet companies are sometimes banned outright. Of course China needs to spend billions spreading its false/hateful messages via its 50cents army on reddit, facebook, etc. It has a cruel and evil authoritarian dictatorship, that if unchecked, will swallow the world
- yomly 10y ago
  Let's take a look at America: They spy on you, regardless of if you live in the country or not, committing global espionage[0][1] They do not observe human rights when imprisoning you [2][3] They are happy to bomb civilians using automated robots in the name of freedom and enlisting you to their brand of freedom[4] They are happy to arm terrorists then assassinate them when they are no longer relevant to their cause[5] They will wage illegal wars when it is convenient for them[6] They were happy to obliterate people's homes to conduct nuclear tests in the name of freedom[7] They institutionally protect the interests of the people with the most access to wealth[8] They have elected a narcissistic nepotistic sexist bigot for their president, and do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] I'm not here to spark a tally of which country has committed more atrocities or which country is better - the world is simply a dirty place, and to this day, humans are still as capable of committing human on human sin. China is no doubt guilty of many crimes too but I find China bashing by other countries reeking of hypocrisy and evidence that our own nations' propaganda machines are well oiled and in full-throttle. The victor writes history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lockdown_thomas_silverstein_how_a_1983_murder_created_america.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lo... [3] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-bay-why-was-it-set-up-what-are-the-controversies-and-why-is-obama-looking-to-close-the-a6891516.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-... [4] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... [5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_... [6]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-john-prescott-says-tony-blair-led-uk-into-illegal-war-in-iraq-a7129106.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report... [7]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islands-nuclear-arms-lawsuit-thrown-out-by-uns-top-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islan... [8]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 EDIT: added an additional point
tehabe 10y ago
It would be cheaper to open up the country, introduce a democratic system and actual human rights, and abolish the death penality. Make peace with Tibet, agree with Taiwan on a good neighborhood. Support a democratic change also in North Korea. These would actually make China a country I could support, but currently: no, thank you.
- thatfrenchguy 10y ago
  Are you talking about the United States here ?
  - tehabe 10y ago
    The US could also finally get rid of the death penalty, but it is still a democracy, with a working court system. Can change faster than you think but maybe, just maybe, it won't.
    - mentallymeta 10y ago
      >but it is still a democracy That can be argued: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
    - herbst 10y ago
      Swiss here. I never understood how Americans can believe to live in a functional democracy. Seems far fetched to me Most decisions are not made within a democratic process but decided by leaders who are usually not voted for ether
- mazerackham 10y ago
  this is such a prototypical example of utter western bullshit. Likely near zero understanding of politics, just grew up with the words "democracy" being shoved into your ears repeatedly. Do you really believe that China's 1.3 billion people would be better off if the country just switched itself to American styled "democracy"? Look at who our democracy just elected.
Animats 10y ago
There's a soft power war going on in Asia. Korea has a major effort to make K-pop a major cultural influence. Korean drama has become an export. In response, Japan has the Cool Japan Fund [1], funded by the Government and some of the big banks. They now run the largest anime translation operation, and a large anime site, "daisuki.net". (Somebody should propose to the Cool Japan Fund that they do something to make Japanese technology more visible in Silicon Valley. Everybody here thinks Shentzen, not Tsukuba.) [1] https://www.cj-fund.co.jp/en/ https://www.cj-fund.co.jp/en/
- jansho 10y ago
  Yeah I remember when Japan was hot (manga/anime) then it was S Korea (Haliu wave), at least in South East Asia. But the soft power war is not so clear cut though. Like Viki streams mostly K-dramas but it's owned by Japanese company Rakuten. China on the other hand is definitely playing that game. Like only last month they banned most imported children's picture books, especially from SK and Japan, and they've pumped a lot of money into their content industry to match their nationalistic agenda and S Korea's. Hollywood seems to be helping too :)
  - Animats 10y ago
    China is getting better at this, but it's not going well. Too many Chinese movies are period pieces, fantasies, or are not set in China, because the censorship on present-day topics is strict. China's movie censorship is explicit; at the beginning of a movie you'll see the golden dragon logo of the censorship authority. This limits the topics of movies. There are feature films produced directly by the People's Liberation Army, such as "Sky Fighters". This is the Chinese version of "Top Gun". It's not very good, because the entertainment takes second place to the propaganda. It's possible to do a good feature film which is also propaganda; "Strategic Air Command" with Jimmy Stewart is one such. But China isn't there yet.
    - jansho 10y ago
      Hmm. I know that propaganda and originality don't go well together, but strangely I've always felt that Chinese cinema got it right. I may be biased as I come from an Asian family. For sure they're different from Western cinema, most notably it's usually less cynical and multifaceted, and more linear and nationalistic. But there's such an adventurous spirit (those martial arts sequences help!) that I can look past all that. Perhaps because I'm Asian too, those anti-colonial sentiments are also more easily related. But I don't know, maybe their creative machine really is running out of steam. I haven't really watch much recently (currently on a Scandi kick!) But I do recommend you to explore the classics like Once Upon a Time in China and Infernal Affairs.
chillacy 10y ago
> Since 2004 China has established some 500 government-funded “Confucius Institutes” in 140 countries. These offer language classes, host dance troupes and teach Chinese cooking. Sounds like a state-run version of Alliance Française (which is a nonprofit). I think that'll be really cool: China has a really old history and culture (the latter part wrecked with the rise of communism). The only thing though is that China should be prepared for increased immigration (it tends to happen when you go out and teach your language and culture, and your home country is a nicer place to live).
- ralfd 10y ago
  In the city Guangzhou there is a "Little Africa" of African immigrant workers. Though CNN has an article from last year, that they leave China again, as China has "hostile immigration policies, widespread racism, and at-once slowing and maturing economy": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/ http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guan... > Over the past 18 months, although concrete numbers are hard to come by, hundreds -- perhaps even thousands -- of Africans are believed by locals and researchers to have exited Guangzhou.
nacc 10y ago
I spent almost equal amount of my life in China / North America now, it's interesting to see and compare what one side think about the other. In north America, what I get is China is controlled by dictators. Life sucks over there because there is no freedom, a lot of corruption, no respect to rules, and is generally a chaotic mess. While in north America, democracy and freedom is wonderful, and everyone has the power to make changes of society, and in the end the government has to care about people to stay in power. In China, what I get is the US (Canada is usually less discussed) is controlled by a corrupt and impotent government. Life sucks over there because the majority of the people, who actually has the power, believes the doublespeak of the government and are easily manipulated by the wealth. While in China, people make jokes about the official media, and if the government decides to do something people don't like, people simply ignore it and with enough people (there is always enough people in China) doing this, the government has to care about people's opinion to do anything. I'm a little worried about the situation of both sides now. They seem to go towards what the opposite believes: on one hand in China, the government starts to get better at propaganda and manipulating public opinion; on the other hand in the States ... there is enough happening in the past year.
- NotSammyHagar 10y ago
  Most of the Chinese people I know in the US are well educated programmers. They are not true believers in the Chinese Govt supremacy and wonderfulness. But then probably most people are not that well educated, just like the us. China is a large country and will have many diverse opinions, just like the US. I don't meet that many people in the us who are unthinking believers in the supremacy of our country or believe we are special and god loves us. But if you look at a trump rally, or listen to members of congress speak, its like they are from a different planet.

81 points by matteuan 10y ago

This is going to sound flippant, but I mean it very seriously. This is a much better way to spend money than spending billions to make the world hate you.

herbst 10y ago
IMO you are absolutely right. There is nothing flippant about that when it just reflects the truth
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
You have your numbers wrong. The US does spend... Well, hundreds of billions on making the world love US. The actual problem is two-fold: 1. We spend trillions on making them hate the US. 2. We aren't actually very efficient with the hundreds of billions we spend on making them love the US. It's spent on short-sighted projects that often transparently benefit the US at the cost of the locals. To some degree, this is getting better with leadership from eg, The Gates Foundation, but we could wield our economic power much more efficiently. These problems stem from a fundamental lack of leadership in the US: the US population are emotional-high junkies who are led by a bunch of spineless, selfish people. This is crippling the US, at home and abroad, because we are unable to do anything but lurch between emotional highs, are unable to have an actual vision for the future (and make reasonable plans to see it through), and are unable to wield our power effectively. The US is trapped in short-term optimization thinking because of the junky behavior of its population.
- herbst 10y ago
  What kind of efforts are you talking a out? From my perspective the hate against the US. is only growing with barely anything holding against that.
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    The US spends huge amounts on food, medicine, and development aid -- 32 billion a year in economic investments (as opposed to military, which is another 10 billion a year). Since 9/11, the US has probably spent around 500 billion on helping countries develop, fighting famines, curing diseases, etc. We've just also spent something like 3 or 4 trillion on ineffective and damaging wars, spy programs, etc. My point is that we're spending the money on goodwill already, we'rr just undermining it with other actions and not spending it effectively.
    - herbst 10y ago
      I guess that is why this happens totally unnoticed to many other western countries, if you cut it down to percentage on national income this is nothing compared to anyone else. On that scale United Arab Emirates did 6 times as much as the U.S. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/09/foreign-aid-which-countries-are-the-most-generous https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...
      - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. Could you explain?
        herbst 10y ago
        I was wondering which affords the U.S. makes to be more loved in world. Your example is something that obviously nobody speaks about in other western countries as it is way less they contribute on a %/countries income factor than anyone else. Nearly every country does a lot of foreign aid, the U.S. just happens to be one of those who do less than others so that surely does not help their global image.
        SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        Everyone I've ever spoken to who was serious about foreign aid and development spending was aware of the US, because they spend much more thab those nations by dollars. I think you're just making a tangential nationalist dig, because this tangent has nothing to do with the US a) getting recognized for their work in poor countries (they do) or b) being able to use their money more effectively (which is what I was talking about).
tim333 10y ago
I've wondered if there was some way to demonstrate it was smarter than say military spending. Looking briefly it seems the US spends $26bn/yr on non military aid and about $600bn on military stuff. I'd guess if they spend $500bn on military and another $100bn on soft power / direct cash to the starving etc the world would be safer and happier. How to prove it for the budget controlling politicians though? I mean $40bn for the 40m at risk of starvation in Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia given directly would not only stop starvation but pull the whole region out of poverty and do more to make people think the US cool than spending that on nukes they don't need say.

hasenj 10y ago

I wonder how much Japan spends on that front, or if it's even official state policy to make the world love it.

cJ0th 10y ago
Probably quite a lot. I am subscribed to the Quartz newsletter and they often have a paragraph which is headed "Sponsor content by The Government of Japan" which I always find slightly amusing.
tvanantwerp 10y ago
Where I live in DC, there are plenty of Japanese cultural events that I'm confident are funded in part by their government. My wife studies Chado, an intricate Japanese tea ceremony, and the cost-per-lesson is ridiculously low. No way they could charge so little if they weren't being subsidized from somewhere.
jonnathanson 10y ago
Cultural promotion isn't a uniquely Chinese phenomenon. I'd guess that most countries with the cash to spend will spend at least something on promoting and sponsoring cultural awareness abroad. Or their tourism bureaus will advertise in target markets. The crucial difference with China is the magnitude of the investment. It rises to the level of strategically significant state priority.

diego_moita 10y ago

Smart move, the path is wide open for China. The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always". As a non-American I'd argue that "me first" are words that a leader should never say, even when it is what he always believed. I might start learning Mandarin, someday.

vtange 10y ago
As opposed to China? They don't say it, but they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two. Does China maintain a friendly policy toward refugees and minorities? Sure, they do enact policy for the environment, but it's heavily sold on cutting their own smog and air pollution. "Let other countries settle things bilaterally without interference" were China's words originally, not Trump's. One could even say Trump is America's most Chinese president, considering his proposal to build a "Great, great wall" (his words, not mine)[1] and proposal to up America's military by nearly double digits to mimic China's recent years. [2] [1] http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ [2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defence-spending-donald-trump-boosts-military-budget/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defen...
- diego_moita 10y ago
  As a non-American I have a very different understanding of American role in the world. I don't buy the whole concept of "American exceptionalism". I don't believe that America's actions in the world are moved just by benevolent preoccupations. > they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two I totally agree, but that is what every country, tribe and empire has done for thousands of years. I don't expect anyone to be different. My issue is about how you sell it. Soft power (the theme of the article) comes from the empire sales pitch, from being able to convince others that you are being good when you are protecting your assets. Again: my point is not what you are, is what you sell. And the "art of the deal" president is actually a very bad salesman. This is an overture for the Chinese. No, I don't "trust" China as much as I don't "trust" America.
deleted 10y ago

Blahah 10y ago

Paywalled article, so hope this is relevant. Here in Kenya, infrastructure investment by the Kenyan government is very poor. Whatever money gets theoretically assigned to things like building and maintenance of roads and the power and water grids usually goes missing at various stages until the final project, if implemented at all, is shoddy. Enter China, who have been directly funding infrastructure here. They are managing the supply chain and personnel themselves, and it's having a huge effect. Beautiful roads have sprung up around Nairobi in the last year especially, built using modern techniques and quality materials. One can't help but wonder what concessions the Chinese government will eventually come looking for in return, because it's pretty certain that the debt will never be repaid in money.

alphonsegaston 10y ago
A friend of mine spent a few years working in a few different places in Africa. He said that the impression of the locals was that the Chinese are the new colonizers, full stop. The labor conditions and treatment of African workers on Chinese run projects was really bad, and the out-and-out racism by the Chinese was crazy.
- molikto 10y ago
  https://www.quora.com/Is-China-colonizing-Asia-and-Africa/answer/Robin-Daverman?srid=o11a https://www.quora.com/Is-China-colonizing-Asia-and-Africa/an...
  - leesalminen 10y ago
    Case in point... that read like propaganda to me.
    - elefanten 10y ago
      Yes. Glance through the author's other articles and a very clear pattern emerges.
    - mazerackham 10y ago

ajross 10y ago

It's a digression (because honestly the fact that China markets itself is not hugely notable, nor "bad" or "good" no matter how effective or ineffective it might be), but: Toward the bottom of this article is a favorability chart of China in different nations. And there is a huge crater (like 37% to 5%) in Chinese support among the Japanese between 2011-2013. Other nationalities see a little blip, but nothing like this. What happened between China and Japan in 2011? I'm genuinely ignorant.

Cuuugi 10y ago
This is just one data point, and i am far from an expert in the area, but the Senkaku islands are controlled by China, and Japan thinks its theirs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands
- khc 10y ago
  The first sentence in your linked page clearly says it's controlled by Japan. It's ok to not be an expert but at least read the links you post yourself.
alphonsegaston 10y ago
Japan's conservative party (LDP) retook power following the mishandling of Fukushima, and proceeded with a full court press of their textbook nationalism. This includes constantly vilifying the Chinese and Koreans, although they have little to do with the internal problems plaguing Japan.
vtange 10y ago
This is a good article on that in a nutshell: http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-... Lots of things have been happening between the two countries for a while now, not since 2011. As others have said, there is a territorial dispute that to the best of my knowledge really flared up when Japan actively nationalized the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. China's moves in the South China Sea have not made things better. Aside from that, China blocked rare earth minerals to Japan in 2010. [1] There have been numerous boycotts by China (to the point of outright vandalism of Japanese cars, business property) over political issues [2] There is always the whole WW2 apology issue (over comfort women, wartime crimes, etc.) In 2015, China made a jab at Japan during their 70th anniversary of WW2 victory. [3] On the bright side, China did help Japan out during the big earthquake/tsunami of 2011. [4] [1] http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/08/18/did-china-really-ban-rare-earth-metals-exports-to-japan/ http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/08/18/did-china-really-ban... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2012-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2... [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2012-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-boycott-hurts-japan-2... [4] http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134567659/china-acts-fast-in-aiding-japan-post-earthquake http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134567659/china-acts-fast-in-a...

KaoruAoiShiho 10y ago

It's not nearly enough, it needs to be trillions for it to catch up to America.

neves 10y ago

The difference between a communist and a capitalist society. With Hollywood, the USA profits billions to make the world love it. :-)

jacob019 10y ago
So true.
prodmerc 10y ago
I mean, China does have an active movie industry, as well. Along with Hong Kong, which many just collate with China heh India has Bollywood. Both have garnered quite a following in the West thanks to that.
- gragas 10y ago
  I almost burst out laughing. China and India are nowhere close to the US movie industry's influence around the world.
realusername 10y ago
China is only communist in name nowadays, they even have a stock market.
herbst 10y ago
Could be sarcasm but I don't Really see how one thing has to do anything with the other
- slededit 10y ago
  Churchill famously remarked the film Ms. Miniver was worth, "either five battleships or 50 destroyers". Hollywood has immense propaganda value and is very effective at exporting American culture. It is independent though, which gives it some grounding.
  - herbst 10y ago

shimon_e 10y ago

Dear China, No need to spend billions. Just don't cancel my flight one week before I depart and everything will be fine!!! :[

amgin3 10y ago

If they really want people to like them, they really need to teach their citizens how to behave before they travel, or prevent them from traveling altogether. Maybe force them to take a mandatory etiquette class or something.

paganel 10y ago
The same goes for the English youth who get wasted in different Southern European countries. The only two times when I got verbally harassed on the street while I was minding my own business (I'm talking as an adult) happened on a Greek island during the summer months, on both cases the culprits were English guys in their late-teens, early-20s we were drunk out of their minds.
- amgin3 10y ago
  Chinese tour groups are notorious for disrespecting and/or destroying everything they come in contact with. I've had to personally deal with them in several countries and it is never a pleasant experience.
herbst 10y ago
Same could be said about Americans. I rather be cut in lines from some old Chinese ladies than have Americans shouting disrespectful stuff next to me. In fact Chinese people seem to be aware and respectful of local cultures usually, something that can't be said about Americans. Source: Digitalnomad in SEA
dang 10y ago
This breaks HN's civility guideline. You can't post comments attacking entire populations here. Please don't do it again.

kitschshrine 10y ago

so China is - lead by a billionnaire dictator and son of veteran communist party member, who has shown to purge his enemies, jail innocents/reporters without trial, disappear others. He oppresses the will of hong kongers to self govern, and acts like a crybaby whenever Taiwan, a self-governing democracy, does anything political - controlled by a "congress" of billionnaires, who work together to exploit workers for pennies on the dollar, turn a blind eye to deadly air pollution/water pollution/poisonous food in favor of money, and when in danger, flees to Australia/Canada/US with billions - member in WTO, but never abides by any of the rules. Foreign companies are forced to give up tech, partner with locals, suffer 30% import tax, and eventually, leave due to unfairness. And other countries loses factories/jobs/communities. Internet companies are sometimes banned outright. Of course China needs to spend billions spreading its false/hateful messages via its 50cents army on reddit, facebook, etc. It has a cruel and evil authoritarian dictatorship, that if unchecked, will swallow the world

yomly 10y ago
Let's take a look at America: They spy on you, regardless of if you live in the country or not, committing global espionage[0][1] They do not observe human rights when imprisoning you [2][3] They are happy to bomb civilians using automated robots in the name of freedom and enlisting you to their brand of freedom[4] They are happy to arm terrorists then assassinate them when they are no longer relevant to their cause[5] They will wage illegal wars when it is convenient for them[6] They were happy to obliterate people's homes to conduct nuclear tests in the name of freedom[7] They institutionally protect the interests of the people with the most access to wealth[8] They have elected a narcissistic nepotistic sexist bigot for their president, and do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] I'm not here to spark a tally of which country has committed more atrocities or which country is better - the world is simply a dirty place, and to this day, humans are still as capable of committing human on human sin. China is no doubt guilty of many crimes too but I find China bashing by other countries reeking of hypocrisy and evidence that our own nations' propaganda machines are well oiled and in full-throttle. The victor writes history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lockdown_thomas_silverstein_how_a_1983_murder_created_america.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lo... [3] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-bay-why-was-it-set-up-what-are-the-controversies-and-why-is-obama-looking-to-close-the-a6891516.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-... [4] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... [5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_... [6]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-john-prescott-says-tony-blair-led-uk-into-illegal-war-in-iraq-a7129106.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report... [7]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islands-nuclear-arms-lawsuit-thrown-out-by-uns-top-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islan... [8]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 EDIT: added an additional point

tehabe 10y ago

It would be cheaper to open up the country, introduce a democratic system and actual human rights, and abolish the death penality. Make peace with Tibet, agree with Taiwan on a good neighborhood. Support a democratic change also in North Korea. These would actually make China a country I could support, but currently: no, thank you.

thatfrenchguy 10y ago
Are you talking about the United States here ?
- tehabe 10y ago
  The US could also finally get rid of the death penalty, but it is still a democracy, with a working court system. Can change faster than you think but maybe, just maybe, it won't.
  - mentallymeta 10y ago
    >but it is still a democracy That can be argued: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
  - herbst 10y ago
    Swiss here. I never understood how Americans can believe to live in a functional democracy. Seems far fetched to me Most decisions are not made within a democratic process but decided by leaders who are usually not voted for ether
mazerackham 10y ago
this is such a prototypical example of utter western bullshit. Likely near zero understanding of politics, just grew up with the words "democracy" being shoved into your ears repeatedly. Do you really believe that China's 1.3 billion people would be better off if the country just switched itself to American styled "democracy"? Look at who our democracy just elected.

Animats 10y ago

There's a soft power war going on in Asia. Korea has a major effort to make K-pop a major cultural influence. Korean drama has become an export. In response, Japan has the Cool Japan Fund [1], funded by the Government and some of the big banks. They now run the largest anime translation operation, and a large anime site, "daisuki.net". (Somebody should propose to the Cool Japan Fund that they do something to make Japanese technology more visible in Silicon Valley. Everybody here thinks Shentzen, not Tsukuba.) [1] https://www.cj-fund.co.jp/en/ https://www.cj-fund.co.jp/en/

jansho 10y ago
Yeah I remember when Japan was hot (manga/anime) then it was S Korea (Haliu wave), at least in South East Asia. But the soft power war is not so clear cut though. Like Viki streams mostly K-dramas but it's owned by Japanese company Rakuten. China on the other hand is definitely playing that game. Like only last month they banned most imported children's picture books, especially from SK and Japan, and they've pumped a lot of money into their content industry to match their nationalistic agenda and S Korea's. Hollywood seems to be helping too :)
- Animats 10y ago
  China is getting better at this, but it's not going well. Too many Chinese movies are period pieces, fantasies, or are not set in China, because the censorship on present-day topics is strict. China's movie censorship is explicit; at the beginning of a movie you'll see the golden dragon logo of the censorship authority. This limits the topics of movies. There are feature films produced directly by the People's Liberation Army, such as "Sky Fighters". This is the Chinese version of "Top Gun". It's not very good, because the entertainment takes second place to the propaganda. It's possible to do a good feature film which is also propaganda; "Strategic Air Command" with Jimmy Stewart is one such. But China isn't there yet.
  - jansho 10y ago
    Hmm. I know that propaganda and originality don't go well together, but strangely I've always felt that Chinese cinema got it right. I may be biased as I come from an Asian family. For sure they're different from Western cinema, most notably it's usually less cynical and multifaceted, and more linear and nationalistic. But there's such an adventurous spirit (those martial arts sequences help!) that I can look past all that. Perhaps because I'm Asian too, those anti-colonial sentiments are also more easily related. But I don't know, maybe their creative machine really is running out of steam. I haven't really watch much recently (currently on a Scandi kick!) But I do recommend you to explore the classics like Once Upon a Time in China and Infernal Affairs.

chillacy 10y ago

> Since 2004 China has established some 500 government-funded “Confucius Institutes” in 140 countries. These offer language classes, host dance troupes and teach Chinese cooking. Sounds like a state-run version of Alliance Française (which is a nonprofit). I think that'll be really cool: China has a really old history and culture (the latter part wrecked with the rise of communism). The only thing though is that China should be prepared for increased immigration (it tends to happen when you go out and teach your language and culture, and your home country is a nicer place to live).

ralfd 10y ago
In the city Guangzhou there is a "Little Africa" of African immigrant workers. Though CNN has an article from last year, that they leave China again, as China has "hostile immigration policies, widespread racism, and at-once slowing and maturing economy": http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/ http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guan... > Over the past 18 months, although concrete numbers are hard to come by, hundreds -- perhaps even thousands -- of Africans are believed by locals and researchers to have exited Guangzhou.

nacc 10y ago

I spent almost equal amount of my life in China / North America now, it's interesting to see and compare what one side think about the other. In north America, what I get is China is controlled by dictators. Life sucks over there because there is no freedom, a lot of corruption, no respect to rules, and is generally a chaotic mess. While in north America, democracy and freedom is wonderful, and everyone has the power to make changes of society, and in the end the government has to care about people to stay in power. In China, what I get is the US (Canada is usually less discussed) is controlled by a corrupt and impotent government. Life sucks over there because the majority of the people, who actually has the power, believes the doublespeak of the government and are easily manipulated by the wealth. While in China, people make jokes about the official media, and if the government decides to do something people don't like, people simply ignore it and with enough people (there is always enough people in China) doing this, the government has to care about people's opinion to do anything. I'm a little worried about the situation of both sides now. They seem to go towards what the opposite believes: on one hand in China, the government starts to get better at propaganda and manipulating public opinion; on the other hand in the States ... there is enough happening in the past year.

NotSammyHagar 10y ago
Most of the Chinese people I know in the US are well educated programmers. They are not true believers in the Chinese Govt supremacy and wonderfulness. But then probably most people are not that well educated, just like the us. China is a large country and will have many diverse opinions, just like the US. I don't meet that many people in the us who are unthinking believers in the supremacy of our country or believe we are special and god loves us. But if you look at a trump rally, or listen to members of congress speak, its like they are from a different planet.