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Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does
by bonestamp2 10y ago
Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation. Like you said, Amazon doesn't seem concerned that they're selling counterfeit goods -- probably because they don't understand that's a serious crime.
- emodendroket 10y agoThere is probably a calculation that the feds will be reticent to do that to an Amazon warehouse as they're generally major employers in the areas they're built in.
- bonestamp2 10y agoHopefully you're right (for the employee's sake). But given the Bezos/Trump feud, if I were Bezos I'd be very cautious about giving the feds any valid reason (with lots of precedence) to shut down any warehouses for an investigation.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tw04 10y agoI guess I'm curious how you came to the conclusion they're major employers where their warehouses are. As far as I can tell each warehouse is about 1,000 full-time jobs. If I look at a list of warehouse locations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amazon.com_locations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amazon.com_locations They're pretty much universally a rounding error for total population and jobs in their respective metro areas.
- Zigurd 10y ago1,000 full time employees is pretty big these days. The highly touted Carrier deal amounted to maybe 700 jobs. Elizabeth Warren made an announcement about the big new Amazon distribution center in Fall River. It's supposedly Amazon's biggest, and I recall it was about 1,000 jobs. So they are doing more with the same headcount.
- emodendroket 10y agoFall River is also extremely economically depressed. I thought that was a typical case but the list of locations suggests maybe that's not entirely true.
- ams6110 10y agoPretty smart on Amazon's part. Locate in depressed areas: the work doesn't require any real skills, the wages, working hours and conditions can be poor because there's no other real competition for employment, and dispite all that the local politicans love you for being an improvement on what they had before.
- emodendroket 10y agoIt's a tried and true formula.
- Zigurd 10y agoMassachusetts isn't as big a boomtown as some areas, but population grew about 4% in a region better known for losing population. Fall River isn't as much a backwater as it used to be.
- emodendroket 10y agoDo you mean Fall River? I'm certainly not arguing that Massachusetts, as a whole, is economically depressed.
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- binarymax 10y agoThat's tens of millions of dollars in salaries injected into the local economy from one employer, not to mention the other additions like local taxes and utility spending. 1000 jobs is significant.
- backtoyoujim 10y agoSo we wait until 990 of those jobs are lost to automation ... then we order pitchforks from Amazon ?
- closeparen 10y agoThen Amazon can locate its facilities even farther from population centers where there is no municipal or even county government to speak of.
- tw04 10y agoWait, WHAT? The average Amazon warehouse worker makes $13/hr. That's ~$27,000/yr BEFORE taxes. In other words: any employee making that salary and actually trying to raise a family is collecting more from the government than they're paying in. They aren't contributing anything to the local economy, they're draining it just like Walmart.
- ribosometronome 10y agoHow does an Amazon warehouse drain money from a local economy? Purchases at Wal-mart export your money outside of a local economy, but the presence of an Amazon warehouse doesn't really change the number of purchases you'll be making at Amazon in your town.
- amsilprotag 10y agoThere was a great Bloomberg Decrypted podcast a couple weeks ago weighing the costs and benefits for a small town in offering a multi-million dollar subsidy for thousands of low-skill Amazon warehouse jobs. Is it really worth subsidizing at all when the government will have to fund various welfare programs to cover the difference between the ~$10.00/hr paid and a livable wage? But since towns compete and prestige is awarded to politicians who win deals, towns race each other to near zero expected value. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-14/your-tax-dollars-subsidize-amazon-are-the-jobs-worth-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-14/your-tax-...
- emodendroket 10y agoThe New York Times also did a big piece showing that these deals were almost always bad ones. The thing is that politicians have a simply ideological commitment to not intervene more directly.
- Apocryphon 10y agoMakes me wonder if political deals to bring in military-industrial complex jobs at military bases and arms manufacturing plants and the like are any better. They at least provide better compensation to the workers, right?
- emodendroket 10y agoIt's certainly not the most efficient way to generate employment but these guys know where their bread is buttered.
- dogma1138 10y agoTowns like to attract military bases because they bring in a large population that is employed requires no loca services (since it's handled by the armed forces), usually well behaved which spends its income locally. Bases also bring 100s of civilian jobs and support local businesses.
- Symmetry 10y agoThat's why this is done by the Feds rather than local cops. They don't have to care about local employment.
- mcphage 10y agoI think Apple sued them recently about counterfeit chargers. Let's see if that will do anything.
- LoSboccacc 10y agointerestingly I almost got a counterfeit yesterday. I bailed at the last second when I saw there were many sellers shadowing the manufacturer and reading the comments that one guy got an unbranded version of the good, so I went to the manufacturer website itself and bought from there. while amazon will not see the individual user receiving counterfeits, it will feel the bottom line slowing down, rest assured. edit to add: if I wanted counterfeit goods, I'd go to aliexpress and at least save a buck.
- ninv 10y ago8 out of 10 people cannot spot counterfeit goods. I bought a major brand perfume, Sold and fulfilled by Amazon. When i used it after 2 months i was suspicious a. One day i was in Macy's, saw the same perfume (on same price). I tried the tester and i realized that perfume at home is a cheap knock off. Initially i though that Amazon did not store it properly and warehouse heat must have destroyed the smell. Then i saw one star reviews. For last 6 months people were complaining and getting refund for this perfume. My refund windows was already closed. Anyway, lesson learned. Amazon is a hit or miss these days like eBay. Here is one example, 84$ Magpul sights. If you have never seen the original product, you cannot spot the difference. https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-MBUS-Front-Backup-Sight/product-reviews/B00WY4QHWU/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=avp_only_reviews https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-MBUS-Front-Backup-Sight/produc... edit: Added "Sold and fulfilled by Amazon"
- zyxzkz 10y agoWhen I followed your link it says: Sold by MSP Sales LLC and Fulfilled by Amazon.
- nommm-nommm 10y agoI don't know about that particular product but Amazon's inventory can go in and out of stock. Also they do not give themselves the buy box all the time, they do share it with third party sellers.
- cookiecaper 10y agoAmazon does not allow one to create a permanent link to a specific seller. You can only link to the ASIN, which will determines the seller to display on-demand. Unless the product category or brand is "gated" (and to be fair, many are), meaning it requires pre-approval to list on Amazon, anyone can hitch onto any ASIN by telling Amazon they have that product in stock (if FBA, by sending in "that product").
- ninv 10y agoIt changes frequently. I tried the link this morning and it is "Sold by HandAProduct and Fulfilled by Amazon."
- coldtea 10y ago>Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation You'd be surprised what being a big company can do to protect you from such actions by the FBI.
- AdamJacobMuller 10y ago> hold all the inventory as evidence With the FBA situation, why would amazon even care? Amazon will just tell the seller, "X from your inventory was just sized by the FBI, talk to them if you want it back" The seller has no leverage against Amazon, Amazon is out no money, Amazon will just get another shipment of counterfeit widgets the next day.
- sk5t 10y agoAmazon might care when entire warehouses are locked down for investigation. It's systemic after all.
- AdamJacobMuller 10y agoI find it unlikely to believe that they would lock down entire warehouses for any significant period. I think this is the equivalent of shutting down an entire port because of a (or a few) containers of cargo are counterfit.
- M_Grey 10y ago...That sounds like the FBI we know and "love". They do so love to make a point.
- intrasight 10y agoAmazon is a powerful company with friends in high places.
- bonestamp2 10y agoDon't forget about enemies in even higher places.
- mynameisvlad 10y agoI believe FBA stock is comingled with other FBA and Amazon.com stock for the same SKU in the warehouse.
- twhb 10y agoI am sure that other significant business losses will also cause Amazon to take action, like understanding how many sales they're losing for lack of trust. So I ask everybody reading this: next time you get ripped off, make sure your contact understands that you aren't just returning the product, you are re-purchasing it elsewhere because you can no longer trust Amazon with this.
- akinalci 10y agoAs someone else here pointed out, most people don't realize they're getting counterfeit items. Anecdotally, most of the people I've spoken to regarding this haven't even considered that something they get from Amazon might be counterfeit. Many don't really understand the 3rd-party seller system, Fulfilled by Amazon, etc. You think Amazon is clueless? They're not. They know they're shipping counterfeits. They've done the math, and it's making them money. I don't think we'll see a significant change unless there's a lot more bad publicity, or the government gets involved.
- unclebucknasty 10y ago>until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Or until consumers start to become unsure enough about whether they are getting legit goods on Amazon that they become wary of shopping there. >they don't understand that's a serious crime. Oh, they understand this well. They are a multi-billion dollar company with teams of lawyers. But, as long as they can get away with a passive response--like processing refunds when requested--without taking too much of a reputational or legal hit, they will continue to do so. Effectively, it's cheaper to outsource the policing to customers vs. trying to vet vendors at scale.
- nommm-nommm 10y agoAmazon seems to be untouchable. They didn't even get in any trouble for selling illegal and prescription drugs but Bodybuilding.com did. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/amazon-prescription-drug-problem/story?id=24095588 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/amazon-prescription-drug-proble... http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/05/amazon_illegal_drugs_muscle_relaxants_steroids_prescription_drugs_delivered.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa... https://www.fda.gov/iceci/criminalinvestigations/ucm305494.htm https://www.fda.gov/iceci/criminalinvestigations/ucm305494.h...
- tajen 10y agoI hope Amazon doesn't become another HSBC case. Given the extent of the fraud, I'm already disappointed that the FBI doesn't seize a warehouse for investigation.
- dba7dba 10y ago"the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation" Considering the strained relationship between Bezos and Trump, I can actually see that happening.
- joniT 10y agoFrom my experience working at Amazon, they do take it very seriously. They've got multiple teams working on automated detection of counterfeit using rules, machine learning, etc., and hundreds of investigators looking into cases. They allow return of counterfeit and will reimburse you fully, and they'll have the item return to them for inspection. If they know you've frauded before, they try and block you from the platform by fingerprinting you and your accounts. The issue is that there's too many sellers and too many product, it's a really hard problem to solve. Counterfeit has improved considerably too, sometimes it even comes from the same factory, they call it the "night shift". And while we try to prevent it, we also have to balance out false positive rates, not to hurt the seller's buisness without real cause. I'm afraid most websites will suffer from this, if you want to be sure, try to buy straight from the manufacturer, but even then, make sure you double check the website, not all manufacturers sell directly and online, so that could also be fraud.
- breakingcups 10y agoIt's not hard to solve. It's hard to solve under Amazons business model whilst retaining Amazons profit margins. It's a problem they chose to ignore for a long time because they could.