4 ms·

How about the opposite of innovation? A new generation of dumb phones that reminds you who's the real boss in life. My ideal one would be: - it's small, maybe

by jansho 10y ago

How about the opposite of innovation? A new generation of dumb phones that reminds you who's the real boss in life. My ideal one would be: - it's small, maybe 3" - it's super light - still feels substantial when you do hold it though - has basic functions (call, text, alarm) but with updated modern interface - max 3 apps if you reaally can't get away without them (e.g. whatsapp) - sophisticated non-intrusive tech embedded (e.g. Track if lost phone, able to take dictation) - fiercely anti-snoop - super robust, will be fine even if thrown over cliff, chewed by toddler, stamped on et cetra Edit: formatting

mseebach 10y ago
Moto G4 + Cyanogenmod + only the apps you want mostly ticks your boxes. After all, "being in charge" doesn't mean "my phone decides what I'm (not) allowed to do". Not sure if "find my phone" can ever be compatible with "fiercely anti-snoop". At least, you'll need to provide (and secure) your own server.
- ino 10y ago
  After moto g2 I'm never ever buying a motorolla phone again. Ever. Constant crashes, hangups, it takes 5 minutes to power on. I'm not alone, the internet is filled with people having the same issues. The updates to newer android versions made everything even worse. Worst phone ever, and I bought it because os the astroturfing on the internet.
  - motog4user 10y ago
    Moto G4 32gb owner. Cheap reliable, fast. Battery is good. Now with Android 7... Best bang for my bucks yet.
    - tremendo 10y ago
      You're obviously peddling the phone (your username, 2-hrs-old account). But I want to know, how you have Android 7 on the G4? mine has 6.0.1 and there are no pending updates. Other than that, very happy with this phone.
      - puetzk 10y ago
        Probably https://download.lineageos.org/athene https://download.lineageos.org/athene / http://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/athene/ http://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/athene/ (LineageOS is the successor to CyanogenMod). That supports Android 7.1 on lots of devices the manufacturers don't (I have it on a 1st-generation Moto G).
      - motog4user 10y ago
        Exactly, just reacting to the parent thread... Standard update. I'm not in US though. Maybe Lenovo is releasing the update progressively.
  - dageshi 10y ago
    Had that phone, worked fine. Gave it to my dad, still works fine. My brother bought one, his works fine, he still has it. I now have a g4, that works fine.
- jansho 10y ago
  Lots of interesting responses here, thank you all. I want to clarify that in my parent post, I was only brainstorming the ideal features of a (not necessarily cheap) sophisticated dumb phone, from my perspective. Other people may have different basic needs – I suggested in a later post (probably nested at the bottom now) that perhaps a modular approach could be a workaround; the customer can opt to add (program in) extra features to this most basic phone, if they so wish to. As some of you have noticed, there are contradictions in my wish list, but that’s OK – if this idea is to be taken further, then for sure there will be many iterations before the optimum design can be found. There’ll be some compromises, but I’m confident that with our current (and future) technologies, ticking off that list may not be as hard as it sounds. The way I see it, this new kind of phone doesn’t really belong to the general trend: decades ago, we started with really dumb, clunky phones, then gradually phones get more sophisticated to the extent that most of our lives are centred around it – the trend is almost logical and linear, and you can reasonably anticipate the next generation. But this one is more like a niche branching off it. As some of you have pointed out, why not just get a basic phone and make sure that you don’t bloat it? Completely valid point. But I’m a typical millennial: I want control and minimalism, but I also want it to be pretty. You know, a ruthlessly stripped down phone, combined with sensitively designed UX, Apple aesthetics and a swish of 2020 originality. And super-powers, like advanced voice recognition, materials, encryption and so on. Yeah it’ll be cheap … This phone is defined JUST phone. It’s a new philosophy, where it bypasses the overwhelming mass of technology options today by just sticking to the fundamental purpose of the tool, and keeps covering your ass in emergencies. It’s an OCD-ish dream of a lifestyle, where you are in control, in the moment, while remaining chic. You can call it a new vanity if you like.
Gatsky 10y ago
This will make a great kickstarter in 2063.
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
This isn't want you're looking for but... Have you seen John's Phones? http://www.johnsphones.com/store/item9 http://www.johnsphones.com/store/item9
- jansho 10y ago
  A bit more hi-tech than that :) I think touchscreens are still great. I guess in the end even "minimalist" products can be lusted over and collected...
jansho 10y ago
Oh I forgot to add: - pre-installed basic text phrases e.g. I'm home, Stuck in traffic - loving the bevel-less displays of Samsung Edges On second thoughts, voice command should be really be a primary function. By small, light but substantial I mean a slightly weighted credit card which is 3 cm thick, less rounded (Sony aesthetics) and cool to touch. I get the clash between tracking and privacy. Hmm. Aha. I'm thinking of a modular model: you can start with the very basic but slick-looking dumb phone, then customise your own level of privacy and functions, pick-n-mix style. I should think that it wouldn't be that labour-intensive today; plug in a basic model to a special computer, select and pay for the features you want and get the phone re-programmed. Any piqued companies reading this, don't forget my commission ;))
- asdfgadsfgasfdg 10y ago
  > Aha. I'm thinking of a modular model: you can start with the very basic but slick-looking dumb phone, then customise your own level of privacy and functions, pick-n-mix style. I should think that it wouldn't be that labour-intensive today; plug in a basic model to a special computer, select and pay for the features you want and get the phone re-programmed. Sort of like a clunkier app store?
  - jansho 10y ago
    No. For example, the phone can start off as really dumb. It is so dumb that it's also very anti-hack: no third-party apps to access some of your data, no camera or Evernote to record your moments, no GPS to track your location and so on. But different users have different needs. Maybe a 12MP camera is absolutely essential for some - so add a camera function. Maybe some really need Whatsapp to keep in touch with family and friends - so add Whatsapp. But all that comes at an extra cost and effort. This means that users have to very consciously decide what they actually need for their phones.
    - nradov 10y ago
      Google tried that with Project Ara. It didn't work.
hengheng 10y ago
That's how you fill a niche with a cheaper product, not produce tens of millions of devices at the top of the price range.
simonh 10y ago
Indestructible sliver of glass that's super fast with high end AI at a budget price. How about four bars of signal at all times and a battery that lasts a week, just to round it off?
- ominous 10y ago
  > high end AI What does that even mean? You say it as if it were an end unto itself. You don't even mention a single usecase. Without that, how is that different from saying "general purpose computer" or "turing complete language"? Or dirt. If you have no uses for it, might as well carry an sdcard with a minecraft savefile. It is turing complete. More, you say it as if the AI itself would do things (what?), not you. Thinking about it, we are high end intelligence without predefined use cases. And we walk around full of purpose, perfectly happy just existing for a while.
  - simonh 10y ago
    I think you're missing the point of my post.
blauditore 10y ago
This partially describes some Windows Phone's I've had: - Fairly small (around 4" though) - Fairly light (not "super" though) - Quite robust, partially due to plastic case and glass front not fully reaching edges - Acceptable performance with really cheap hardware - All basic apps, including WhatsApp (not sure how long it will still be supported though) About snooping, I think you can disable almost all feedback to MS in WP8, and third-party apps don't stand a chance because they're heavily isolated and inter-app communication as well as global OS features are extremely limited yet, as opposed W10 or other modern mobile OS'. If you really don't care about latest features and lots of apps, then getting a second-hand Nokia Lumia might be interesting for you.
grecy 10y ago
I bought a $20 itel smartphone in Guinea, West Africa that does everything I need and nothing I don't. 3G, Android, Tethering, apps, $20. Perfect.
pizza234 10y ago
Commercially speaking, this is not really viable, because when it comes to a minimal subset of functionality, everyone has his own; therefore, with the exception of extremely minimal devices (and there's plenty on the market - I recently bought one for less than 20$), there's no realistic common denominator. You can easily see conflicts in the requirements of having it cheap, but at the same time: indestructible touchscreen (costs $$$); long lasting battery (with a powerful enough CPU, it's $$$ again); GPS ($$$); 3G ($$$); super light (regular plastic won't do, therefore: $$$); etc, etc, etc. The alternative is to have something very cheap and configurable, in other words, something a bit more than minimal. This is not really different from basic Android devices, so you can already get this (as pointed out) installing custom Android versions. Edit: expanded concepts.
CrackpotGonzo 10y ago
A friend and I were thinking the same about 3 years ago and set out to make an e-paper "smarter" dumb phone. Turns out it's really hard to build a good dumb phone in 2017, especially given the phasing out of 2G. We landed on the same idea of a less distracting phone, 4" screen, 4G support, and more privacy than existing smart phones. You can check it out here if you'd like. Curious to hear what you think. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siempo/the-phone-for-humans https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siempo/the-phone-for-hu...
- mikegioia 10y ago
  Full screen, non-tactile keyboard is a non-starter IMO.
  - canuckintime 10y ago
    Which tactile keyboard phone are you currently using, if you don't mind sharing?
- jansho 10y ago
  Wow, congratulations for the Kickstarter! I’m a bit flushed that you’re asking for my opinion, I am no phone expert. But okay, my opinion as a random consumer. I apologise if I’ve misread anything. You say that the phone is human-centric, but my first impression is that it looks very millennial. There’s a lot of mindfulness going on such as hitting the pause button and rescheduling tasks. The Kickstarter blurb also mentioned that new features will be added, like popular app compatibility. So for me, this phone is still a smartphone but with a specific flow to reduce distractions and build good habits. And that is fine! But if I’m honest, I probably won’t get it. I’m not bright (definitely not HN level), but my mind is devious. It’s what makes me such a good procrastinator, and no productivity app or technique works for me. It took me a while to realise that to address this problem, I have to really introspect myself, at all times, and adjust my workflow to it. As I get better, even if tiny and slow, I feel accomplished as a person. This, not the phone’s good-habit-designed flow, is empowering. If there’s going to be a dumb phone, then it has to assume that its users are like that already. That rather than a phone to organise their lives, it’s one that they can forget about until they really need it. Let this drive your design and then do the Apple thing: go radical and make the design so irresistible that these users are like Hell yeah, this is what I WANT. (Rather than need.) But! I am a random consumer, comfortable with spending Saturday afternoons in my armchair. My fully stocked iPhone SE makes me a tad hypocritical too. Stepping out of my analytical/cynical zone, actually the Kickstarter looks really good, and clearly there is great interest in it. I wish you the very best luck :)
rsync 10y ago
"How about the opposite of innovation? A new generation of dumb phones that reminds you who's the real boss in life. My ideal one would be" I used a "moto fone" (motorola F3)[1] until one year ago, when the last one I had died. It is a fantastic size and form factor and I liked it so much I accepted the downside of no smart features at all. I would love an updated version of this phone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone
- mrbill 10y ago
  Those were hard as heck to track down in the US. I ended up importing one from Mexico. Even the "we sell everything known to man related to phones" shops on Harwin Rd. here in Houston had never heard of it. Had to laugh when I recently found the pictures from when my wife bought me an original iPhone back in 2007. Next to the iPhone box is my F3 lying on my desk. Talk about transition.
  - rsync 10y ago
    Come to think of it, all of my F3 handsets were, in fact from mexico ... they always booted up with the word "TELCEL".
mikegioia 10y ago
I've been wishing for this for years. I'd add "tactile keyboard".
Keyframe 10y ago
So, this http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_cmd_z5-pictures-133.php http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_cmd_z5-pictures-133.php ? But "smart"?

by jansho 10y ago

mseebach 10y ago

Moto G4 + Cyanogenmod + only the apps you want mostly ticks your boxes. After all, "being in charge" doesn't mean "my phone decides what I'm (not) allowed to do". Not sure if "find my phone" can ever be compatible with "fiercely anti-snoop". At least, you'll need to provide (and secure) your own server.

ino 10y ago
After moto g2 I'm never ever buying a motorolla phone again. Ever. Constant crashes, hangups, it takes 5 minutes to power on. I'm not alone, the internet is filled with people having the same issues. The updates to newer android versions made everything even worse. Worst phone ever, and I bought it because os the astroturfing on the internet.
- motog4user 10y ago
  Moto G4 32gb owner. Cheap reliable, fast. Battery is good. Now with Android 7... Best bang for my bucks yet.
  - tremendo 10y ago
    You're obviously peddling the phone (your username, 2-hrs-old account). But I want to know, how you have Android 7 on the G4? mine has 6.0.1 and there are no pending updates. Other than that, very happy with this phone.
    - puetzk 10y ago
      Probably https://download.lineageos.org/athene https://download.lineageos.org/athene / http://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/athene/ http://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/athene/ (LineageOS is the successor to CyanogenMod). That supports Android 7.1 on lots of devices the manufacturers don't (I have it on a 1st-generation Moto G).
    - motog4user 10y ago
      Exactly, just reacting to the parent thread... Standard update. I'm not in US though. Maybe Lenovo is releasing the update progressively.
- dageshi 10y ago
  Had that phone, worked fine. Gave it to my dad, still works fine. My brother bought one, his works fine, he still has it. I now have a g4, that works fine.
jansho 10y ago
Lots of interesting responses here, thank you all. I want to clarify that in my parent post, I was only brainstorming the ideal features of a (not necessarily cheap) sophisticated dumb phone, from my perspective. Other people may have different basic needs – I suggested in a later post (probably nested at the bottom now) that perhaps a modular approach could be a workaround; the customer can opt to add (program in) extra features to this most basic phone, if they so wish to. As some of you have noticed, there are contradictions in my wish list, but that’s OK – if this idea is to be taken further, then for sure there will be many iterations before the optimum design can be found. There’ll be some compromises, but I’m confident that with our current (and future) technologies, ticking off that list may not be as hard as it sounds. The way I see it, this new kind of phone doesn’t really belong to the general trend: decades ago, we started with really dumb, clunky phones, then gradually phones get more sophisticated to the extent that most of our lives are centred around it – the trend is almost logical and linear, and you can reasonably anticipate the next generation. But this one is more like a niche branching off it. As some of you have pointed out, why not just get a basic phone and make sure that you don’t bloat it? Completely valid point. But I’m a typical millennial: I want control and minimalism, but I also want it to be pretty. You know, a ruthlessly stripped down phone, combined with sensitively designed UX, Apple aesthetics and a swish of 2020 originality. And super-powers, like advanced voice recognition, materials, encryption and so on. Yeah it’ll be cheap … This phone is defined JUST phone. It’s a new philosophy, where it bypasses the overwhelming mass of technology options today by just sticking to the fundamental purpose of the tool, and keeps covering your ass in emergencies. It’s an OCD-ish dream of a lifestyle, where you are in control, in the moment, while remaining chic. You can call it a new vanity if you like.

Gatsky 10y ago

This will make a great kickstarter in 2063.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago

This isn't want you're looking for but... Have you seen John's Phones? http://www.johnsphones.com/store/item9 http://www.johnsphones.com/store/item9

jansho 10y ago
A bit more hi-tech than that :) I think touchscreens are still great. I guess in the end even "minimalist" products can be lusted over and collected...

jansho 10y ago

Oh I forgot to add: - pre-installed basic text phrases e.g. I'm home, Stuck in traffic - loving the bevel-less displays of Samsung Edges On second thoughts, voice command should be really be a primary function. By small, light but substantial I mean a slightly weighted credit card which is 3 cm thick, less rounded (Sony aesthetics) and cool to touch. I get the clash between tracking and privacy. Hmm. Aha. I'm thinking of a modular model: you can start with the very basic but slick-looking dumb phone, then customise your own level of privacy and functions, pick-n-mix style. I should think that it wouldn't be that labour-intensive today; plug in a basic model to a special computer, select and pay for the features you want and get the phone re-programmed. Any piqued companies reading this, don't forget my commission ;))

asdfgadsfgasfdg 10y ago
> Aha. I'm thinking of a modular model: you can start with the very basic but slick-looking dumb phone, then customise your own level of privacy and functions, pick-n-mix style. I should think that it wouldn't be that labour-intensive today; plug in a basic model to a special computer, select and pay for the features you want and get the phone re-programmed. Sort of like a clunkier app store?
- jansho 10y ago
  No. For example, the phone can start off as really dumb. It is so dumb that it's also very anti-hack: no third-party apps to access some of your data, no camera or Evernote to record your moments, no GPS to track your location and so on. But different users have different needs. Maybe a 12MP camera is absolutely essential for some - so add a camera function. Maybe some really need Whatsapp to keep in touch with family and friends - so add Whatsapp. But all that comes at an extra cost and effort. This means that users have to very consciously decide what they actually need for their phones.
  - nradov 10y ago
    Google tried that with Project Ara. It didn't work.

hengheng 10y ago

That's how you fill a niche with a cheaper product, not produce tens of millions of devices at the top of the price range.

simonh 10y ago

Indestructible sliver of glass that's super fast with high end AI at a budget price. How about four bars of signal at all times and a battery that lasts a week, just to round it off?

ominous 10y ago
> high end AI What does that even mean? You say it as if it were an end unto itself. You don't even mention a single usecase. Without that, how is that different from saying "general purpose computer" or "turing complete language"? Or dirt. If you have no uses for it, might as well carry an sdcard with a minecraft savefile. It is turing complete. More, you say it as if the AI itself would do things (what?), not you. Thinking about it, we are high end intelligence without predefined use cases. And we walk around full of purpose, perfectly happy just existing for a while.
- simonh 10y ago
  I think you're missing the point of my post.

blauditore 10y ago

This partially describes some Windows Phone's I've had: - Fairly small (around 4" though) - Fairly light (not "super" though) - Quite robust, partially due to plastic case and glass front not fully reaching edges - Acceptable performance with really cheap hardware - All basic apps, including WhatsApp (not sure how long it will still be supported though) About snooping, I think you can disable almost all feedback to MS in WP8, and third-party apps don't stand a chance because they're heavily isolated and inter-app communication as well as global OS features are extremely limited yet, as opposed W10 or other modern mobile OS'. If you really don't care about latest features and lots of apps, then getting a second-hand Nokia Lumia might be interesting for you.

grecy 10y ago

I bought a $20 itel smartphone in Guinea, West Africa that does everything I need and nothing I don't. 3G, Android, Tethering, apps, $20. Perfect.

pizza234 10y ago

Commercially speaking, this is not really viable, because when it comes to a minimal subset of functionality, everyone has his own; therefore, with the exception of extremely minimal devices (and there's plenty on the market - I recently bought one for less than 20$), there's no realistic common denominator. You can easily see conflicts in the requirements of having it cheap, but at the same time: indestructible touchscreen (costs $$$); long lasting battery (with a powerful enough CPU, it's $$$ again); GPS ($$$); 3G ($$$); super light (regular plastic won't do, therefore: $$$); etc, etc, etc. The alternative is to have something very cheap and configurable, in other words, something a bit more than minimal. This is not really different from basic Android devices, so you can already get this (as pointed out) installing custom Android versions. Edit: expanded concepts.

CrackpotGonzo 10y ago

A friend and I were thinking the same about 3 years ago and set out to make an e-paper "smarter" dumb phone. Turns out it's really hard to build a good dumb phone in 2017, especially given the phasing out of 2G. We landed on the same idea of a less distracting phone, 4" screen, 4G support, and more privacy than existing smart phones. You can check it out here if you'd like. Curious to hear what you think. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siempo/the-phone-for-humans https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siempo/the-phone-for-hu...

mikegioia 10y ago
Full screen, non-tactile keyboard is a non-starter IMO.
- canuckintime 10y ago
  Which tactile keyboard phone are you currently using, if you don't mind sharing?
jansho 10y ago
Wow, congratulations for the Kickstarter! I’m a bit flushed that you’re asking for my opinion, I am no phone expert. But okay, my opinion as a random consumer. I apologise if I’ve misread anything. You say that the phone is human-centric, but my first impression is that it looks very millennial. There’s a lot of mindfulness going on such as hitting the pause button and rescheduling tasks. The Kickstarter blurb also mentioned that new features will be added, like popular app compatibility. So for me, this phone is still a smartphone but with a specific flow to reduce distractions and build good habits. And that is fine! But if I’m honest, I probably won’t get it. I’m not bright (definitely not HN level), but my mind is devious. It’s what makes me such a good procrastinator, and no productivity app or technique works for me. It took me a while to realise that to address this problem, I have to really introspect myself, at all times, and adjust my workflow to it. As I get better, even if tiny and slow, I feel accomplished as a person. This, not the phone’s good-habit-designed flow, is empowering. If there’s going to be a dumb phone, then it has to assume that its users are like that already. That rather than a phone to organise their lives, it’s one that they can forget about until they really need it. Let this drive your design and then do the Apple thing: go radical and make the design so irresistible that these users are like Hell yeah, this is what I WANT. (Rather than need.) But! I am a random consumer, comfortable with spending Saturday afternoons in my armchair. My fully stocked iPhone SE makes me a tad hypocritical too. Stepping out of my analytical/cynical zone, actually the Kickstarter looks really good, and clearly there is great interest in it. I wish you the very best luck :)

rsync 10y ago

"How about the opposite of innovation? A new generation of dumb phones that reminds you who's the real boss in life. My ideal one would be" I used a "moto fone" (motorola F3)[1] until one year ago, when the last one I had died. It is a fantastic size and form factor and I liked it so much I accepted the downside of no smart features at all. I would love an updated version of this phone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone

mrbill 10y ago
Those were hard as heck to track down in the US. I ended up importing one from Mexico. Even the "we sell everything known to man related to phones" shops on Harwin Rd. here in Houston had never heard of it. Had to laugh when I recently found the pictures from when my wife bought me an original iPhone back in 2007. Next to the iPhone box is my F3 lying on my desk. Talk about transition.
- rsync 10y ago
  Come to think of it, all of my F3 handsets were, in fact from mexico ... they always booted up with the word "TELCEL".

mikegioia 10y ago

I've been wishing for this for years. I'd add "tactile keyboard".

Keyframe 10y ago

So, this http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_cmd_z5-pictures-133.php http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_cmd_z5-pictures-133.php ? But "smart"?