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Amazon needs to solve the counterfeit goods and scammer seller problems it has. I reported a scammer on Wednesday and in the span of time I was in the chat wit

by chiph 10y ago

Amazon needs to solve the counterfeit goods and scammer seller problems it has. I reported a scammer on Wednesday and in the span of time I was in the chat with them, 3 more scammers appeared for that same SKU. I've been a customer since the late 90s and if they don't get this fixed, I'm going to start looking for another e-tailer to use.

larakerns 10y ago
Not that AliExpress is much better with counterfeit, but it is the "fresh" contender to the West. There might be a movement away from Amazon's core business as AliExpress / Ali* expand here.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  I doubt it... most of the counterfeit junk on Amazon is just Ali products and sellers leaking over.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Yeah, but at higher prices. You might as well just buy straight from the source on Ali and skip Amazon altogether.
    - hbosch 10y ago
      That is not a great solution for consumers. People don't want cheaper counterfeits - they want the real thing. Ali doesn't do this better than Amazon.
      - Arizhel 10y ago
        I think you're missing the point. The point is you're going to get crappy counterfeits on Amazon, so it's better to just buy them on Ali where you'll get them cheaper. If you want the real thing, don't buy on Amazon.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - marcosdumay 10y ago
        In fact, Ali does let you choose the seller of the item, and lets you contact him as much as you want before the transaction. So, no, Ali does this better than Amazon.
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Well yeah... if I wanted to buy cheap counterfeits; most of the time I don't.
      - Arizhel 10y ago
        Then Amazon probably isn't a good place for you to shop.
brightball 10y ago
At their scale, I wonder what would be involved?
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Let companies claim an SKU via a verification process, maybe? Let me pick whether I buy from the "owner" of that SKU - never commingled stock - or if I want to take a chance on the commingled unverified vendors.
- tyingq 10y ago
  a) When co-mingling inventory, keep track of the original source, and penalize them (not the seller) for product issues, bad product reviews, etc. Or stop co-mingling if you can't have accountability. b) Separate somehow bad reviews and complaints about SELLERS from bad reviews, complaints about PRODUCTS. Again, more direct accountabilithy. Today, when you leave a bad review or complain about crap counterfeits or bad service, shipping, etc, it just doesn't affect the actual bad actor in the way it should.
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    Both of these are already done. Complaints about commingled inventory will hurt the one who sent them in. You can review the seller and the product separately.
    - tyingq 10y ago
      Not sure I agree. If I get a counterfeit product as a customer, I am guaranteed to leave a bad review. I don't see some process in place that automatically routes that from a PRODUCT review into a WHOEVER_ACTUALLY_PUT_THAT_IN_THE INVENTORY review. I can't even really tell Amazon that the product is counterfeit. The closest thing is "not as described".
      - ikeboy 10y ago
        If you leave that review, it will go back and hurt the seller. I've seen advice in some of the groups I'm in for sellers that says if a listing gets shut down, look at recent reviews to determine if anyone was unhappy. Also, if you return and mention the word counterfeit, that will be picked up. I've had one listing temporarily shut down because of a return that said they were worried it was counterfeit, then I sent amazon invoices and they let me sell again.
tux1968 10y ago
This. They've already lost my family as customers because it's just too hard to figure out what is safe to order. Maybe few people will react the same way we have -- Amazon better hope so, or get their act together quickly.
menacingly 10y ago
For me, this problem went away when I started dealing exclusively with items "shipped from and sold by" amazon.com. Do you still experience counterfeit stuff if you do that? Hopefully not, or I'll have to revise my strategy. I love Amazon, but the ebay side of their retail business is total shady junk
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  >Do you still experience counterfeit stuff if you do that? Hopefully not, or I'll have to revise my strategy. Yes, you do. There was a post just a few days ago on Hacker News about "sold and shipped by Amazon" sending out cheap counterfeits of his book. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546 http://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-counterfeits-no-starch.html http://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-counterfeits-no-starch.... I suspect the counterfeit problem is much larger than the public can even see, most counterfeit complaints are handled by Amazon or not noticed by the consumer so they aren't made public.
  - secabeen 10y ago
    My understanding is that in some cases, Amazon will blend together FBO items in their warehouse, mixing the stock that Amazon sells with the stock that other vendors send it to be sold. They're assuming that for a new book, the items are fungible, so it doesn't matter. This breaks when scammers print lower-quality counterfeit copies that appear identical at first glance. You order "Sold by Amazon.com", but when they grab one off of the shelf, you get the copy that "123Books" added there.
- bratsche 10y ago
  I've been seeing some items that are ONLY sold by 3rd party sellers. For example, go search on Amazon for Nintendo Switch. I get it, there isn't much stock out there.. but on Amazon there is no way to say, "Pre-order for whenever you get more in stock." Instead you're forced to buy from 3rd party sellers. Now go and look at some of those sellers. There are tons and tons of sellers who have either 0% positive feedback, or they just started and have no feedback. I'm worried that more items are going over to this Ebay-like model of shady sellers.
Arizhel 10y ago
Bah. I've already stopped buying a ton of stuff from them, and for small cheap stuff my first stop is Ebay. I consider Ebay sellers far more reputable than Amazon ones (I know, that sounds bad, but that's how bad Amazon is). On Ebay, I can tell immediately if a seller is in China for instance. I can also easily see their feedback rating and read peoples' complaints. Amazon seems to make this stuff very hard to find. And Amazon's prices aren't all that great these days either. Finally, I got sick of being hounded to buy Amazon Prime ages ago.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Amazon has generic listings for everything so its hard to tell exactly what you're getting and from who. And since sellers share the same listing you can't apply any real filters to try to weed out the sketchy sellers other than "too cheap." Someone who isn't trying to be obvious about it would be selling at a higher price point. I don't really have a problem finding legit sellers on eBay whereas Amazon is basically a crapshoot. I actually ordered a book from Amazon listed as "new." I got a tracking number from USPS shipped from Maryland or whatever. Book comes FedEx from India!! Yes, seller is buying fraudulent shipping to make it look like their books are shipping from the US!!! Worse, the book was in garbage condition. I mean really worn, ripped cover and all. Had to get a refund from Amazon. When I reported the seller to Amazon no action was taken that I could see, if it was up to me blatant fraud like that would be a auto-ban. I left a review warning other users of the sellers practices and the seller actually tried to convince me they weren't actually listing fraudulent tracking numbers with "we used to ship USPS but we had problems with packages getting stolen." Which makes no fucking sense at all. Additionally, even worse (if this could get worse), I now believe that book to be a counterfeit/unauthorized printing. I didn't know that was a actually a thing until this week, but the book's quality and price-point is a huge indication. I thought the price point went down due to used books in the market and the book was just not great. I just Googled and counterfeits of this book are common and mine matches the description of the counterfeit version. :-/ I've heard horror stories about sellers who create a detailed listing for a product and a second seller comes along and changes the listing making seller 1 sell products not as described in the listing. I don't know if its true, but people claimed it happened to them.
differentView 10y ago
> I'm going to start looking for another e-tailer to use. What alternatives are there that don't have the same problem?
- chiph 10y ago
  Walmart.com also has problems with fraudulent sellers (gray-market items) but it's not as bad.
magic_beans 10y ago
I'm sure your departure will affect their profits greatly.
diminoten 10y ago
This is a problem for a small subset of people, so no, they don't really have to solve this.
aRationalMoose 10y ago
What sort of counterfeits are we talking that is so bad that they lose your business?
- chiph 10y ago
  So far I've had counterfeit auto parts and water filters show up. The problem is I never used to have these issues when buying from them. The part was correct - every time. Now when I order something I have to allow an extra week or two before I can actually use it, just in case I have to do a return. Like in the auto parts example - If I want to replace something on the car that requires disassembly, I schedule a Saturday for it. But then the part arrives and it's of poor quality because it's counterfeit, so I have to reschedule my time, and perhaps a friend's time who was going to come over and help. If this happens once, it's an annoyance but dealt with. If it happens repeatedly (it took 3 tries to get the legit water filters because of co-mingled stock at Amazon), it's waaaay beyond annoying.
kilroy123 10y ago
I agree. I'm pretty sure I've been a victim of this, though it's hard to prove. I'm far more skeptical about Amazon now.

by chiph 10y ago

larakerns 10y ago

Not that AliExpress is much better with counterfeit, but it is the "fresh" contender to the West. There might be a movement away from Amazon's core business as AliExpress / Ali* expand here.

M_Grey 10y ago
I doubt it... most of the counterfeit junk on Amazon is just Ali products and sellers leaking over.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Yeah, but at higher prices. You might as well just buy straight from the source on Ali and skip Amazon altogether.
  - hbosch 10y ago
    That is not a great solution for consumers. People don't want cheaper counterfeits - they want the real thing. Ali doesn't do this better than Amazon.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      I think you're missing the point. The point is you're going to get crappy counterfeits on Amazon, so it's better to just buy them on Ali where you'll get them cheaper. If you want the real thing, don't buy on Amazon.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - marcosdumay 10y ago
      In fact, Ali does let you choose the seller of the item, and lets you contact him as much as you want before the transaction. So, no, Ali does this better than Amazon.
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Well yeah... if I wanted to buy cheap counterfeits; most of the time I don't.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      Then Amazon probably isn't a good place for you to shop.

brightball 10y ago

At their scale, I wonder what would be involved?

ceejayoz 10y ago
Let companies claim an SKU via a verification process, maybe? Let me pick whether I buy from the "owner" of that SKU - never commingled stock - or if I want to take a chance on the commingled unverified vendors.
tyingq 10y ago
a) When co-mingling inventory, keep track of the original source, and penalize them (not the seller) for product issues, bad product reviews, etc. Or stop co-mingling if you can't have accountability. b) Separate somehow bad reviews and complaints about SELLERS from bad reviews, complaints about PRODUCTS. Again, more direct accountabilithy. Today, when you leave a bad review or complain about crap counterfeits or bad service, shipping, etc, it just doesn't affect the actual bad actor in the way it should.
- ikeboy 10y ago
  Both of these are already done. Complaints about commingled inventory will hurt the one who sent them in. You can review the seller and the product separately.
  - tyingq 10y ago
    Not sure I agree. If I get a counterfeit product as a customer, I am guaranteed to leave a bad review. I don't see some process in place that automatically routes that from a PRODUCT review into a WHOEVER_ACTUALLY_PUT_THAT_IN_THE INVENTORY review. I can't even really tell Amazon that the product is counterfeit. The closest thing is "not as described".
    - ikeboy 10y ago
      If you leave that review, it will go back and hurt the seller. I've seen advice in some of the groups I'm in for sellers that says if a listing gets shut down, look at recent reviews to determine if anyone was unhappy. Also, if you return and mention the word counterfeit, that will be picked up. I've had one listing temporarily shut down because of a return that said they were worried it was counterfeit, then I sent amazon invoices and they let me sell again.

tux1968 10y ago

This. They've already lost my family as customers because it's just too hard to figure out what is safe to order. Maybe few people will react the same way we have -- Amazon better hope so, or get their act together quickly.

menacingly 10y ago

For me, this problem went away when I started dealing exclusively with items "shipped from and sold by" amazon.com. Do you still experience counterfeit stuff if you do that? Hopefully not, or I'll have to revise my strategy. I love Amazon, but the ebay side of their retail business is total shady junk

nommm-nommm 10y ago
>Do you still experience counterfeit stuff if you do that? Hopefully not, or I'll have to revise my strategy. Yes, you do. There was a post just a few days ago on Hacker News about "sold and shipped by Amazon" sending out cheap counterfeits of his book. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546 http://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-counterfeits-no-starch.html http://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-counterfeits-no-starch.... I suspect the counterfeit problem is much larger than the public can even see, most counterfeit complaints are handled by Amazon or not noticed by the consumer so they aren't made public.
- secabeen 10y ago
  My understanding is that in some cases, Amazon will blend together FBO items in their warehouse, mixing the stock that Amazon sells with the stock that other vendors send it to be sold. They're assuming that for a new book, the items are fungible, so it doesn't matter. This breaks when scammers print lower-quality counterfeit copies that appear identical at first glance. You order "Sold by Amazon.com", but when they grab one off of the shelf, you get the copy that "123Books" added there.
bratsche 10y ago
I've been seeing some items that are ONLY sold by 3rd party sellers. For example, go search on Amazon for Nintendo Switch. I get it, there isn't much stock out there.. but on Amazon there is no way to say, "Pre-order for whenever you get more in stock." Instead you're forced to buy from 3rd party sellers. Now go and look at some of those sellers. There are tons and tons of sellers who have either 0% positive feedback, or they just started and have no feedback. I'm worried that more items are going over to this Ebay-like model of shady sellers.

Arizhel 10y ago

Bah. I've already stopped buying a ton of stuff from them, and for small cheap stuff my first stop is Ebay. I consider Ebay sellers far more reputable than Amazon ones (I know, that sounds bad, but that's how bad Amazon is). On Ebay, I can tell immediately if a seller is in China for instance. I can also easily see their feedback rating and read peoples' complaints. Amazon seems to make this stuff very hard to find. And Amazon's prices aren't all that great these days either. Finally, I got sick of being hounded to buy Amazon Prime ages ago.

nommm-nommm 10y ago
Amazon has generic listings for everything so its hard to tell exactly what you're getting and from who. And since sellers share the same listing you can't apply any real filters to try to weed out the sketchy sellers other than "too cheap." Someone who isn't trying to be obvious about it would be selling at a higher price point. I don't really have a problem finding legit sellers on eBay whereas Amazon is basically a crapshoot. I actually ordered a book from Amazon listed as "new." I got a tracking number from USPS shipped from Maryland or whatever. Book comes FedEx from India!! Yes, seller is buying fraudulent shipping to make it look like their books are shipping from the US!!! Worse, the book was in garbage condition. I mean really worn, ripped cover and all. Had to get a refund from Amazon. When I reported the seller to Amazon no action was taken that I could see, if it was up to me blatant fraud like that would be a auto-ban. I left a review warning other users of the sellers practices and the seller actually tried to convince me they weren't actually listing fraudulent tracking numbers with "we used to ship USPS but we had problems with packages getting stolen." Which makes no fucking sense at all. Additionally, even worse (if this could get worse), I now believe that book to be a counterfeit/unauthorized printing. I didn't know that was a actually a thing until this week, but the book's quality and price-point is a huge indication. I thought the price point went down due to used books in the market and the book was just not great. I just Googled and counterfeits of this book are common and mine matches the description of the counterfeit version. :-/ I've heard horror stories about sellers who create a detailed listing for a product and a second seller comes along and changes the listing making seller 1 sell products not as described in the listing. I don't know if its true, but people claimed it happened to them.

differentView 10y ago

> I'm going to start looking for another e-tailer to use. What alternatives are there that don't have the same problem?

chiph 10y ago
Walmart.com also has problems with fraudulent sellers (gray-market items) but it's not as bad.

magic_beans 10y ago

I'm sure your departure will affect their profits greatly.

diminoten 10y ago

This is a problem for a small subset of people, so no, they don't really have to solve this.

aRationalMoose 10y ago

What sort of counterfeits are we talking that is so bad that they lose your business?

chiph 10y ago
So far I've had counterfeit auto parts and water filters show up. The problem is I never used to have these issues when buying from them. The part was correct - every time. Now when I order something I have to allow an extra week or two before I can actually use it, just in case I have to do a return. Like in the auto parts example - If I want to replace something on the car that requires disassembly, I schedule a Saturday for it. But then the part arrives and it's of poor quality because it's counterfeit, so I have to reschedule my time, and perhaps a friend's time who was going to come over and help. If this happens once, it's an annoyance but dealt with. If it happens repeatedly (it took 3 tries to get the legit water filters because of co-mingled stock at Amazon), it's waaaay beyond annoying.

kilroy123 10y ago

I agree. I'm pretty sure I've been a victim of this, though it's hard to prove. I'm far more skeptical about Amazon now.