3 ms·

Of course, but typically quality suffers significantly, so what you get isn't as good as the original and that in itself is a deterrent for a lot of people. Al

Of course, but typically quality suffers significantly, so what you get isn't as good as the original and that in itself is a deterrent for a lot of people. Also, some modern watermarking techniques can survive conversions like this, so if anyone is making a habit of recording content from a service using watermarking and redistributing it on a scale that justifies taking serious action, it'll be pretty easy to prove who it was when the lawsuit comes up.

flukus 10y ago
> Also, some modern watermarking techniques can survive conversions like this, so if anyone is making a habit of recording content from a service using watermarking and redistributing it on a scale that justifies taking serious action, it'll be pretty easy to prove who it was when the lawsuit comes up. How many compromised netflix accounts do you think are floating around? At some point the bits have to actually go to a display device as well, which can always be tapped.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  If a compromised account was used, presumably the server logs will show an unusual access pattern on that account, in particular involving the content that has leaked being accessed from an unusual location. And then presumably the person whose account was used will have to make a convincing case that they shouldn't be held responsible for access using their credentials anyway.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Ok, what if a machine is compromised (there are millions of zombie boxes out there)? Someone can gain access, do their stuff and then upload the result. Are they going to start suing grandmas with weak wifi passwords? That worked so well for the RIAA last time.
    - Silhouette 10y ago
      Then it'll be up to the person whose account was accessed to provide some evidence that something like this happened and that it wasn't their fault. That's how these things work. You go to court, you make your case and the other side makes theirs, and the court draws its conclusions and acts accordingly. However, you don't just get to conveniently avoid taking any responsibility when there are videos being distributed that are specifically linked to an account you signed up for that clearly said you couldn't redistribute the content you got through it, just because there's some vaguely possible alternative that might have once happened somewhere maybe.
      - boomboomsubban 10y ago
        A compromised account is a vague possibility? I'm not amazing at these things, but I could probably access a WiFi network unconnected to me, mask my IP to a different location, and acquire a random Netflix account in a couple of hours. These things are likely, and wrongful lawsuits greatly damage the company while successful ones provide a minimal benefit.
        Silhouette 10y ago
        I'm not amazing at these things, but I could probably access a WiFi network unconnected to me, mask my IP to a different location, and acquire a random Netflix account in a couple of hours. Really? How would you do that, exactly? If you're looking online and find camcorder copies of videos that were served to a specific customer at a specific time, as confirmed by the watermarking, and your server logs show that that stream was sent to the customer's usual IP address at the time in question, what are the odds that they were the victim of a carefully crafted hack of the kind you're implying, and not just someone who set up a camcorder to record from their own account?
        flukus 10y ago
        > Really? How would you do that, exactly? Wireless isn't very secure, you're mileage may vary on the encryption mechanism but here is a guide to hacking WPA networks (with WEP it takes seconds): http://www.hackingtutorials.org/wifi-hacking-tutorials/how-to-hack-upc-wireless-networks/ http://www.hackingtutorials.org/wifi-hacking-tutorials/how-t... From there you can try a range of known exploits and gain admin access to a PC, after that it's game over, they can run what they want, when the want. There is no careful crafting necessary, the process can be largely automated. We aren't talking camcorder copies, but exact digital replicas from the netflix stream.
amelius 10y ago
> it'll be pretty easy to prove who it was when the lawsuit comes up Perhaps. But this person can always claim that it was done by an external hacker. In fact, it can be done by an "external" hacker, and it will be if these guys are smart.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  I'm sure that's an appealing argument if you don't like DRM, but the reality is that someone who ripped content marked to their personal account, which server logs show did access the content in question from their usual IP address etc., is going to have a tough time convincing any court on the balance of probabilities that some unidentified bogeyman actually did it.

flukus 10y ago

> Also, some modern watermarking techniques can survive conversions like this, so if anyone is making a habit of recording content from a service using watermarking and redistributing it on a scale that justifies taking serious action, it'll be pretty easy to prove who it was when the lawsuit comes up. How many compromised netflix accounts do you think are floating around? At some point the bits have to actually go to a display device as well, which can always be tapped.

Silhouette 10y ago
If a compromised account was used, presumably the server logs will show an unusual access pattern on that account, in particular involving the content that has leaked being accessed from an unusual location. And then presumably the person whose account was used will have to make a convincing case that they shouldn't be held responsible for access using their credentials anyway.
- flukus 10y ago
  Ok, what if a machine is compromised (there are millions of zombie boxes out there)? Someone can gain access, do their stuff and then upload the result. Are they going to start suing grandmas with weak wifi passwords? That worked so well for the RIAA last time.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    Then it'll be up to the person whose account was accessed to provide some evidence that something like this happened and that it wasn't their fault. That's how these things work. You go to court, you make your case and the other side makes theirs, and the court draws its conclusions and acts accordingly. However, you don't just get to conveniently avoid taking any responsibility when there are videos being distributed that are specifically linked to an account you signed up for that clearly said you couldn't redistribute the content you got through it, just because there's some vaguely possible alternative that might have once happened somewhere maybe.
    - boomboomsubban 10y ago
      A compromised account is a vague possibility? I'm not amazing at these things, but I could probably access a WiFi network unconnected to me, mask my IP to a different location, and acquire a random Netflix account in a couple of hours. These things are likely, and wrongful lawsuits greatly damage the company while successful ones provide a minimal benefit.
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        I'm not amazing at these things, but I could probably access a WiFi network unconnected to me, mask my IP to a different location, and acquire a random Netflix account in a couple of hours. Really? How would you do that, exactly? If you're looking online and find camcorder copies of videos that were served to a specific customer at a specific time, as confirmed by the watermarking, and your server logs show that that stream was sent to the customer's usual IP address at the time in question, what are the odds that they were the victim of a carefully crafted hack of the kind you're implying, and not just someone who set up a camcorder to record from their own account?
        flukus 10y ago
        > Really? How would you do that, exactly? Wireless isn't very secure, you're mileage may vary on the encryption mechanism but here is a guide to hacking WPA networks (with WEP it takes seconds): http://www.hackingtutorials.org/wifi-hacking-tutorials/how-to-hack-upc-wireless-networks/ http://www.hackingtutorials.org/wifi-hacking-tutorials/how-t... From there you can try a range of known exploits and gain admin access to a PC, after that it's game over, they can run what they want, when the want. There is no careful crafting necessary, the process can be largely automated. We aren't talking camcorder copies, but exact digital replicas from the netflix stream.

amelius 10y ago

> it'll be pretty easy to prove who it was when the lawsuit comes up Perhaps. But this person can always claim that it was done by an external hacker. In fact, it can be done by an "external" hacker, and it will be if these guys are smart.

Silhouette 10y ago
I'm sure that's an appealing argument if you don't like DRM, but the reality is that someone who ripped content marked to their personal account, which server logs show did access the content in question from their usual IP address etc., is going to have a tough time convincing any court on the balance of probabilities that some unidentified bogeyman actually did it.