8 ms·

Call me pessimistic, but how likely is this acquisition by Apple going to result in them integrating it directly into iOS versus completely shutting down in the

by canistr 10y ago

Call me pessimistic, but how likely is this acquisition by Apple going to result in them integrating it directly into iOS versus completely shutting down in the future? Perhaps Apple is using the acquisition strategy as a method to shut down an app getting around iOS's "preferred workflow" and UX model. Sort of a strategy taken by Microsoft, Google, and Apple whereby they buy competitors, claim to leave the service running, but ultimately shut them down so it doesn't compete with their main product (see: Sunrise, Acompli, Sparrow, Timely, etc.)

throwanem 10y ago
You're pessimistic. But perhaps you are not wrong to be so here. On the other hand, this functionality would be a brilliant match for Siri, and they've been looking to move in exactly that sort of direction for some while now, as Alexa and Google Assistant have increasingly made Siri's rough edges and limitations show by comparison. Also worthy of note is that Apple doesn't have a first-party tool in the iOS automation space. So I'm not sure what purpose you suggest it would serve to buy Workflow for the purpose of killing it.
- canistr 10y ago
  Well it's most a matter of Apple sherlocking features vs. shutting down because they want complete control over the user interaction model. As with most acquisitions, unless the team will continue to work on that app (and based on Sunrise, etc. even if they did), the existing version of Workflow will probably languish and the team's output probably won't surface to actual users for another couple of years. It's mainly the idea that Apple doesn't want anybody else dictating how iOS should be used.
IBM 10y ago
Workflow can only be better if its integrated in the OS. They've also made the app free and said it's staying in the store. I don't think it will be pulled (if ever) until it's integrated.
dkonofalski 10y ago
While I think you are being pessimistic, I don't think the pessimism is unwarranted. That being said, I have a feeling that this is, more than likely, an acquisition to bridge the gap between Siri, HomeKit, HealthKit, and all the other built-in iOS functions that are just ripe for "friendly" automation.
- cptskippy 10y ago
  This was my first thought as well. Most home automation solutions are very limited and require integration with something like IFTTT to perform anything but the simplest on/off scheduling.
draw_down 10y ago
> Call me pessimistic, but how likely is this acquisition by Apple going to result in them integrating it directly into iOS versus completely shutting down in the future? I think it's pretty likely. I also think it's likely to return as something more integrated, but of course, the gap between when they shut this down and when the new thing arrives will suck for current users.
wlesieutre 10y ago
Given that Apple axed the position in charge of Mac automation tech (AppleScript, Automator, System Services, Apple Events, etc) last November, I can't help being pessimistic. Updates to products in the iWork suite repeatedly dumbed down their scripting support, and it's pretty clearly not been a priority for Apple in a long while. Some background and commentary on Sal Soghoian's website. Until recently he was Apple's Product Manager of Automation Technologies: http://macosxautomation.com/about.html http://macosxautomation.com/about.html
- canistr 10y ago
  "I hear you no longer work for Apple; is that true? A. Correct. I joined Apple in January of 1997, almost twenty years ago, because of my profound belief that “the power of the computer should reside in the hands of the one using it.” That credo remains my truth to this day. Recently, I was informed that my position as Product Manager of Automation Technologies was eliminated for business reasons. Consequently, I am no longer employed by Apple Inc. But, I still believe my credo to be as true today as ever." Wow.
  - threeseed 10y ago
    What's so "wow" about this ? This happens every second of every day across companies. People are always made redundant for business reasons e.g. restructures, strategic realignments etc. It's definitely not unique for Apple which recently has seen them do a purge of areas they no longer want to be in e.g. Displays, Wifi routers.
    - fjdlwlv 10y ago
      He spent 20 years building technology to empower users, and Apple decided that user empowerment is an an area they no longer want to be in. That's wow a new era in computing, that is all in on changing users into mere consumers
      - npunt 10y ago
        They didn't decide that. They decided this particular guy was not necessarily the guy to do that. You don't just go and buy the best automation app on the marketplace because you don't like automation - you do it to bring in new blood and a new perspective.
cpmsmith 10y ago
I share the pessimism, but there are a couple of glimmers of hope. Firstly, Acompli merely got rebranded, and Sunrise is (purportedly) getting merged into it. More cynically, though, if Apple wanted to shut it down, there are easier ways they aren't above. Edit: Furthermore, they gave it an Apple Design Award in 2015, so they're clearly alright with its existence.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Sunrise was integrated into Outlook quite some time ago. http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12895358/microsoft-outlook-sunrise-app-merger http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12895358/microsoft-outlook...
- CharlesW 10y ago
  Microsoft (not Apple) bought Accompli and Sunrise.
  - cpmsmith 10y ago
    Sure, I use them as examples because the parent comment did.
    - CharlesW 10y ago
      Ah, sorry, the comments weren't contiguous and so I missed that. I'm not sure what Microsoft acquisitions prove, but I'll continue thinking on it until enlightenment happens. > More cynically, though, if Apple wanted to shut it down, there are easier ways they aren't above. It sort of depends on the definition of "shut it down"(see Beats, Swell, FoundationDB, etc.). At minimum, Workflow goes away and rises from the ashes (with a new name) as an automation feature for a future version of iOS. Or, maybe it's just an acqui-hire[1] and they'll start over with a new codebase on something more integral to the OS. [1] "It seems that in scaling back recruiting efforts, Apple is moving to a staffing model fueled by so-called 'acqui-hires,' or purchases of smaller companies for talent." http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/25/apple-reportedly-winding-down-recruiting-efforts-lays-off-all-contract-recruiters- http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/25/apple-reportedly-w...
cpmsmith 10y ago
I share the pessimism, but there are a couple of glimmers of hope. Firstly, Acompli merely got rebranded, and Sunrise is (purportedly) getting merged into it. More cynically, though, if Apple wanted to shut it down, there are easier ways they aren't above.
tyre 10y ago
Apple actually has a surprisingly good track record with acquisitions. Off the top of my head: NeXT -> OS X LaLa -> iTunes Match Siri -> Siri My guess is that Apple saw a useful product that should be a part of the core of iOS.
- untog 10y ago
  I think there's some survivor bias in your list. I remember Apple acquired a public transit app (Embark, I think) and I'm not sure the fruits of that were ever known. Apple Maps has public transit features but it's a shadow of what that app provided.
  - nerfhammer 10y ago
    Well, Apple Maps used to have zero transit features and this was a major downgrade for those that relied on that feature at the time
    - davidwhodge 10y ago
      Apple removed transit before the Embark acquisition.
  - davidwhodge 10y ago
    I am one of the Embark founders. I'm no longer at Apple. Our acquisition actually ended up with the spirit of our product living on in a way that I am proud of. At Embark, we innovated by taking a regionally nuanced and tailored transit App and giving it scale. When Embark operated from 2008 to 2013, there were small bespoke apps and there were larger more generic experiences (like Google) and we filled a void in between. Apple's approach was quite similar. Like Embark, Apple Maps Transit has a more regionally tailored experience than many bespoke transit Apps out there, but they're also able to bring it to scale. It's now at a scale we never got close to reaching at Embark. If you're curious, Apple talks about their city-by-city approach in this WWDC video. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/241/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/241/
LeoPanthera 10y ago
Wikipedia shows us that ~50% of Apple acquisitions result in a product, or an enhancement to an existing product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...
- rweichler 10y ago
  Funny how more than half of them are after 2012. Gotta love the current state of the tech industry.
  - hyperpape 10y ago
    Substantially more than half of Apple's profits came since 2012. In fact eyeballing it, it looks like their profit in 2015 was bigger than their profit from 1977-2009 combined. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financial_history https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financ...
    - resonantjacket5 10y ago
      You gotta account for inflation
      - hyperpape 10y ago
        It really doesnt make that big of a difference: https://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/HistoricalCPI.aspx?reloaded=true https://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/His...
        bkanber 10y ago
        In Apple's case, no, because their growth over the last decade is insane. But to be clear that table you posted shows that $1 in 1977 is worth $4.40 today. That is a big difference, mostly cause by the insane inflation of 1979-1981 (around 12% a year for three years). That makes the average inflation rate over the last 40 years 4%, which is double our target of 2%.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
martinvol 10y ago
I use Timely every day and it's updated regularly!
MBCook 10y ago
We already know how Apple gets rid of things that do things on iOS that they didn't want people doing: they pull them from the store. Apple didn't do that, in fact they've left it in the store and made it free. They've given it a design award in the past (which seems to tacitly endorse that they like parts of it), and we know they've had things to help with automation in some degree on the Mac for years (AppleScript, Automator). This may be one of those cases where they just saw a really good product and decided to start from it instead of building from scratch. Not unlike what they did with MusicMatch Jukebox and a number of other things throughout their history. (iTunes was amazing. I'm not going to argue about the last 10 years or so, but when they bought it it was really nice software for many years).
- 0942v8653 10y ago
  I think they're trying to fight for the iPad Pro in some respect. Though they won't endorse programming on it, they will benefit from more automation systems on the iPad making it into a more viable alternative to the general purpose computer.
djrogers 10y ago
If they just wanted to shut it down, they would've done that. There's nothing in the history of the App Store that indicates Apple needs to buy an app to shut it down – all they have to do is change a rule or interpret it a little bit differently and boom - no more workflow. Apple didn't do this, they bought it instead which makes me very optimistic.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
A couple of years ago there was a patent by Apple that made the rounds on tech blogs detailing automation in iOS. It actually patented things that, say, Tasker on Android was already able to do. So, I think integrating it into iOS is a sure bet.

by canistr 10y ago

throwanem 10y ago

You're pessimistic. But perhaps you are not wrong to be so here. On the other hand, this functionality would be a brilliant match for Siri, and they've been looking to move in exactly that sort of direction for some while now, as Alexa and Google Assistant have increasingly made Siri's rough edges and limitations show by comparison. Also worthy of note is that Apple doesn't have a first-party tool in the iOS automation space. So I'm not sure what purpose you suggest it would serve to buy Workflow for the purpose of killing it.

canistr 10y ago
Well it's most a matter of Apple sherlocking features vs. shutting down because they want complete control over the user interaction model. As with most acquisitions, unless the team will continue to work on that app (and based on Sunrise, etc. even if they did), the existing version of Workflow will probably languish and the team's output probably won't surface to actual users for another couple of years. It's mainly the idea that Apple doesn't want anybody else dictating how iOS should be used.

IBM 10y ago

Workflow can only be better if its integrated in the OS. They've also made the app free and said it's staying in the store. I don't think it will be pulled (if ever) until it's integrated.

dkonofalski 10y ago

While I think you are being pessimistic, I don't think the pessimism is unwarranted. That being said, I have a feeling that this is, more than likely, an acquisition to bridge the gap between Siri, HomeKit, HealthKit, and all the other built-in iOS functions that are just ripe for "friendly" automation.

cptskippy 10y ago
This was my first thought as well. Most home automation solutions are very limited and require integration with something like IFTTT to perform anything but the simplest on/off scheduling.

draw_down 10y ago

> Call me pessimistic, but how likely is this acquisition by Apple going to result in them integrating it directly into iOS versus completely shutting down in the future? I think it's pretty likely. I also think it's likely to return as something more integrated, but of course, the gap between when they shut this down and when the new thing arrives will suck for current users.

wlesieutre 10y ago

Given that Apple axed the position in charge of Mac automation tech (AppleScript, Automator, System Services, Apple Events, etc) last November, I can't help being pessimistic. Updates to products in the iWork suite repeatedly dumbed down their scripting support, and it's pretty clearly not been a priority for Apple in a long while. Some background and commentary on Sal Soghoian's website. Until recently he was Apple's Product Manager of Automation Technologies: http://macosxautomation.com/about.html http://macosxautomation.com/about.html

canistr 10y ago
"I hear you no longer work for Apple; is that true? A. Correct. I joined Apple in January of 1997, almost twenty years ago, because of my profound belief that “the power of the computer should reside in the hands of the one using it.” That credo remains my truth to this day. Recently, I was informed that my position as Product Manager of Automation Technologies was eliminated for business reasons. Consequently, I am no longer employed by Apple Inc. But, I still believe my credo to be as true today as ever." Wow.
- threeseed 10y ago
  What's so "wow" about this ? This happens every second of every day across companies. People are always made redundant for business reasons e.g. restructures, strategic realignments etc. It's definitely not unique for Apple which recently has seen them do a purge of areas they no longer want to be in e.g. Displays, Wifi routers.
  - fjdlwlv 10y ago
    He spent 20 years building technology to empower users, and Apple decided that user empowerment is an an area they no longer want to be in. That's wow a new era in computing, that is all in on changing users into mere consumers
    - npunt 10y ago
      They didn't decide that. They decided this particular guy was not necessarily the guy to do that. You don't just go and buy the best automation app on the marketplace because you don't like automation - you do it to bring in new blood and a new perspective.

cpmsmith 10y ago

I share the pessimism, but there are a couple of glimmers of hope. Firstly, Acompli merely got rebranded, and Sunrise is (purportedly) getting merged into it. More cynically, though, if Apple wanted to shut it down, there are easier ways they aren't above. Edit: Furthermore, they gave it an Apple Design Award in 2015, so they're clearly alright with its existence.

threeseed 10y ago
Sunrise was integrated into Outlook quite some time ago. http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12895358/microsoft-outlook-sunrise-app-merger http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12895358/microsoft-outlook...
CharlesW 10y ago
Microsoft (not Apple) bought Accompli and Sunrise.
- cpmsmith 10y ago
  Sure, I use them as examples because the parent comment did.
  - CharlesW 10y ago
    Ah, sorry, the comments weren't contiguous and so I missed that. I'm not sure what Microsoft acquisitions prove, but I'll continue thinking on it until enlightenment happens. > More cynically, though, if Apple wanted to shut it down, there are easier ways they aren't above. It sort of depends on the definition of "shut it down"(see Beats, Swell, FoundationDB, etc.). At minimum, Workflow goes away and rises from the ashes (with a new name) as an automation feature for a future version of iOS. Or, maybe it's just an acqui-hire[1] and they'll start over with a new codebase on something more integral to the OS. [1] "It seems that in scaling back recruiting efforts, Apple is moving to a staffing model fueled by so-called 'acqui-hires,' or purchases of smaller companies for talent." http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/25/apple-reportedly-winding-down-recruiting-efforts-lays-off-all-contract-recruiters- http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/25/apple-reportedly-w...

cpmsmith 10y ago

tyre 10y ago

Apple actually has a surprisingly good track record with acquisitions. Off the top of my head: NeXT -> OS X LaLa -> iTunes Match Siri -> Siri My guess is that Apple saw a useful product that should be a part of the core of iOS.

untog 10y ago
I think there's some survivor bias in your list. I remember Apple acquired a public transit app (Embark, I think) and I'm not sure the fruits of that were ever known. Apple Maps has public transit features but it's a shadow of what that app provided.
- nerfhammer 10y ago
  Well, Apple Maps used to have zero transit features and this was a major downgrade for those that relied on that feature at the time
  - davidwhodge 10y ago
    Apple removed transit before the Embark acquisition.
- davidwhodge 10y ago
  I am one of the Embark founders. I'm no longer at Apple. Our acquisition actually ended up with the spirit of our product living on in a way that I am proud of. At Embark, we innovated by taking a regionally nuanced and tailored transit App and giving it scale. When Embark operated from 2008 to 2013, there were small bespoke apps and there were larger more generic experiences (like Google) and we filled a void in between. Apple's approach was quite similar. Like Embark, Apple Maps Transit has a more regionally tailored experience than many bespoke transit Apps out there, but they're also able to bring it to scale. It's now at a scale we never got close to reaching at Embark. If you're curious, Apple talks about their city-by-city approach in this WWDC video. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/241/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/241/

LeoPanthera 10y ago

Wikipedia shows us that ~50% of Apple acquisitions result in a product, or an enhancement to an existing product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...

rweichler 10y ago
Funny how more than half of them are after 2012. Gotta love the current state of the tech industry.
- hyperpape 10y ago
  Substantially more than half of Apple's profits came since 2012. In fact eyeballing it, it looks like their profit in 2015 was bigger than their profit from 1977-2009 combined. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financial_history https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financ...
  - resonantjacket5 10y ago
    You gotta account for inflation
    - hyperpape 10y ago
      It really doesnt make that big of a difference: https://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/HistoricalCPI.aspx?reloaded=true https://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/His...
      - bkanber 10y ago
        In Apple's case, no, because their growth over the last decade is insane. But to be clear that table you posted shows that $1 in 1977 is worth $4.40 today. That is a big difference, mostly cause by the insane inflation of 1979-1981 (around 12% a year for three years). That makes the average inflation rate over the last 40 years 4%, which is double our target of 2%.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

martinvol 10y ago

I use Timely every day and it's updated regularly!

MBCook 10y ago

We already know how Apple gets rid of things that do things on iOS that they didn't want people doing: they pull them from the store. Apple didn't do that, in fact they've left it in the store and made it free. They've given it a design award in the past (which seems to tacitly endorse that they like parts of it), and we know they've had things to help with automation in some degree on the Mac for years (AppleScript, Automator). This may be one of those cases where they just saw a really good product and decided to start from it instead of building from scratch. Not unlike what they did with MusicMatch Jukebox and a number of other things throughout their history. (iTunes was amazing. I'm not going to argue about the last 10 years or so, but when they bought it it was really nice software for many years).

0942v8653 10y ago
I think they're trying to fight for the iPad Pro in some respect. Though they won't endorse programming on it, they will benefit from more automation systems on the iPad making it into a more viable alternative to the general purpose computer.

djrogers 10y ago

If they just wanted to shut it down, they would've done that. There's nothing in the history of the App Store that indicates Apple needs to buy an app to shut it down – all they have to do is change a rule or interpret it a little bit differently and boom - no more workflow. Apple didn't do this, they bought it instead which makes me very optimistic.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

A couple of years ago there was a patent by Apple that made the rounds on tech blogs detailing automation in iOS. It actually patented things that, say, Tasker on Android was already able to do. So, I think integrating it into iOS is a sure bet.