4 ms·

Still no user-grantable audio capture permission… Why are only OEM-blessed apps allowed to capture system audio output, when any app can already request permis

by Sephr 10y ago

Still no user-grantable audio capture permission… Why are only OEM-blessed apps allowed to capture system audio output, when any app can already request permission to screen capture?

mschuster91 10y ago
Option 1: DRM concerns (exploiting the "analog hole" on digital level, or HDCP restrictions - how deep is HDCP actually enforced in Android?) Option 2: Privacy (call recorders come to mind - unrelated: does anyone know of a working call recorder?)
- arrty88 10y ago
  I can record calls on iOS
  - rahimnathwani 10y ago
    So if I call your regular phone number (the one attached to the SIM that's in your iPhone) you can record both sides of the audio for that call? How?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - conradev 10y ago
    That's hard to do using the built-in Phone app even on jailbroken devices (the default repos won't list call recorders).
  - tunocina 10y ago
    How?
- eli 10y ago
  Option 2 seems weird since I'm pretty sure Google Voice lets you record calls.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Option 2 seems weird since I'm pretty sure Google Voice lets you record calls. Only inbound calls, not outbound, and that's by design - it's to ensure both parties consent (since there's no way for Google to know whether the call falls under one-party or two-party consent laws).
    - eli 10y ago
      What does inbound vs outbound have to do with consent?
      - chimeracoder 10y ago
        When you start recording a call, it plays a brief message (e.g. "this call is now being recorded"). If it's an outbound call, you could start recording before the other person has actually picked up. If it's inbound, they "know" that the other person will hear the message. It's not actually foolproof if you sit down and think about the edge cases, but that's the rationale behind it. It's a decision driven by the legal team, not the product or engineering ones.
        e12e 10y ago
        Are there any major jurisdictions where this is actually a requirement? I was under the impression that a) it makes no sense, anyone could use an external recorder, and more importantly b) when you are talking with someone, you don't have an expectation of privacy from the person you are talking with? Where would this meaningless feature-cripling make sense?
        chimeracoder 10y ago
        > Are there any major jurisdictions where this is actually a requirement? For starters, twelve states in the US, including California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Unite... And telecom companies (Google acting in the role of a telecom company in this case) have certain responsibilities and liabilities if they facilitate illegal recordings.
- apostacy 10y ago
  I used CallRec. It wasn't easy to get it working. After rooting my phone, I had to spend hours making other tweaks. And of course the software ecosystem is so fragmented, and if you do want to find anything out, you have to sift through mountains of misinformation.
jml7c5 10y ago
I'm surprised this still hasn't been implemented, given there must be some industry pressure to do so. Under Android, all(?) the various consumer wireless audio implementations (Sonos, AirPlay, etc.) require users to either use a vendor-provided music app (which vendors don't want to deal with maintaining, nor do users want to be forced to use), or one of the few music apps that implement their standard. It's a frustrating mess, all the more frustrating given that the limitation seems to exist only to prevent ripping of copyrighted audio, regardless of how beneficial the legitimate uses are.
thewhitetulip 10y ago
I use CyanogenMod and I am able to capture audio and screen, my mother has a lenovo phone which allows you to capture calls directly.

by Sephr 10y ago

Still no user-grantable audio capture permission… Why are only OEM-blessed apps allowed to capture system audio output, when any app can already request permission to screen capture?

mschuster91 10y ago

Option 1: DRM concerns (exploiting the "analog hole" on digital level, or HDCP restrictions - how deep is HDCP actually enforced in Android?) Option 2: Privacy (call recorders come to mind - unrelated: does anyone know of a working call recorder?)

arrty88 10y ago
I can record calls on iOS
- rahimnathwani 10y ago
  So if I call your regular phone number (the one attached to the SIM that's in your iPhone) you can record both sides of the audio for that call? How?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- conradev 10y ago
  That's hard to do using the built-in Phone app even on jailbroken devices (the default repos won't list call recorders).
- tunocina 10y ago
  How?
eli 10y ago
Option 2 seems weird since I'm pretty sure Google Voice lets you record calls.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Option 2 seems weird since I'm pretty sure Google Voice lets you record calls. Only inbound calls, not outbound, and that's by design - it's to ensure both parties consent (since there's no way for Google to know whether the call falls under one-party or two-party consent laws).
  - eli 10y ago
    What does inbound vs outbound have to do with consent?
    - chimeracoder 10y ago
      When you start recording a call, it plays a brief message (e.g. "this call is now being recorded"). If it's an outbound call, you could start recording before the other person has actually picked up. If it's inbound, they "know" that the other person will hear the message. It's not actually foolproof if you sit down and think about the edge cases, but that's the rationale behind it. It's a decision driven by the legal team, not the product or engineering ones.
      - e12e 10y ago
        Are there any major jurisdictions where this is actually a requirement? I was under the impression that a) it makes no sense, anyone could use an external recorder, and more importantly b) when you are talking with someone, you don't have an expectation of privacy from the person you are talking with? Where would this meaningless feature-cripling make sense?
        chimeracoder 10y ago
        > Are there any major jurisdictions where this is actually a requirement? For starters, twelve states in the US, including California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Unite... And telecom companies (Google acting in the role of a telecom company in this case) have certain responsibilities and liabilities if they facilitate illegal recordings.
apostacy 10y ago
I used CallRec. It wasn't easy to get it working. After rooting my phone, I had to spend hours making other tweaks. And of course the software ecosystem is so fragmented, and if you do want to find anything out, you have to sift through mountains of misinformation.

jml7c5 10y ago

I'm surprised this still hasn't been implemented, given there must be some industry pressure to do so. Under Android, all(?) the various consumer wireless audio implementations (Sonos, AirPlay, etc.) require users to either use a vendor-provided music app (which vendors don't want to deal with maintaining, nor do users want to be forced to use), or one of the few music apps that implement their standard. It's a frustrating mess, all the more frustrating given that the limitation seems to exist only to prevent ripping of copyrighted audio, regardless of how beneficial the legitimate uses are.

thewhitetulip 10y ago

I use CyanogenMod and I am able to capture audio and screen, my mother has a lenovo phone which allows you to capture calls directly.