10 ms·

I see many people here trying to puzzle out why electronics are under a partial ban from cabins but not from checked baggage. It's a good question, since if the

I see many people here trying to puzzle out why electronics are under a partial ban from cabins but not from checked baggage. It's a good question, since if there is a fire or explosion hazard on a plane the last place you want it is wrapped in a wad of flammable cloth and synthetics, even if it is oxygen starved. The only motivation I can imagine is: They want these devices in checked luggage because checked luggage can be inspected without recourse by customs, and without an on-site confrontation. With care, it can be done without even notifying the people who are being checked. And given the pushback on social media credential disclosure and the reveal that the CIA (and presumably FBI and other agencies) have physical access exploits (probably via USB or DisplayPort) for most of these devices, this seems like a move who's only logical motivation could be easier digital inspection. Remember, it's the position of the TSA and CBP that non-citizens don't have rights of any kind until they're allowed through customs, and by simply inspecting devices they're interested in quickly and without publicity or confrontation they will certainly be more effective at it. I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage in an envelope. Just for fun. Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" just to make sure people know it's useless. And in case I (or someone investigating my luggage) needs to plug something into a USB slot.

GuiA 10y ago
This. And also people not having devices on their person means they can't quickly text friends/family if they get detained/mistreated/etc. It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all, and make their reasoning known. Ie, refuse to give talks, attend conferences, etc. in the US.
- hanspragt 10y ago
  Cell phones are excluded from the ban, according to the article.
  - virtuabhi 10y ago
    For now. According to the article.
    - PietdeVries 10y ago
      interestingly, you see airlines moving away from in-flight entertainment screens in the seat in front of you, in favor of BYOD. A logical move: let the clients bring their equipment (they bring it anyway) so you don't have to (install, maintain, spend fuel on, etc.). Now with airlines actually removing in flight entertainment, flying from the Middle East to New York can be quite a long trip: no laptop to watch a movie, no screen in front of you. I guess the US will stop banning as soon as one of these policy-makers is on the same flight as a few bored kids ;-)
      - joshgel 10y ago
        Maybe people will have to read books?!
        madengr 10y ago
        True, it some like myself can't read on a plane due to motion sickness. Watching a video is fine, but not focusing on text.
        theandrewbailey 10y ago
        I've never finished reading more than a page in a moving car without feeling nauseous.
        deckiedan 10y ago
        My mum noticed that if she sets her kindle to 2 or so sizes larger text, she doesn't get motion sick any more.
        brogrammernot 10y ago
        Yes. I love to read books on a 17 hour flight instead of being able to watch TV shows, work on programming problems offline or the countless other productive things that a laptop can provide.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  They already confiscate devices. I'm not sure that there is much to be gained by banning phones. The absence of a report coupled with the publicly available info of landing is probably enough to signal trouble.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  no conferences, never ever will feel the need to work in US since there are simply better places with true freedom out there (nordic countries, switzerland and so on) but we will vote with our wallets - unless political climate changes drastically, no vacation in US. couple of thousands of bucks spent in local US economy over couple of weeks is a drop in the ocean, but hey, ocean is made of drops anyway.
- akie 10y ago
  This is already happening. I'm in Europe and I've heard quite a few friends (mostly academics) state that they're actively avoiding traveling to the US.
  - chronicx0 10y ago
    This is not a problem considering most worldwide science and research advancements come from USA, China, Japan, or Korea. The academics can stay in Europe. The US companies will acquire them anyway.
  - emanreus 10y ago
    I have to admit some border crossing incidents[1] are what I would imagine entering North Korea would be like, not the US. [1][10min audio] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M
    - mgbmtl 10y ago
      As someone from Canada, that guy was being a total dick, very aggressive, mansplaining the agent, which isn't surprising that it would trigger the customs agent. He would have had the same response from an agent at the border in Canada. Ex: "what shops are you planning to go to". It's fine to answer "I don't know yet". They're just testing behaviour. If you start being defensive or aggressive, pretend to know their jobs better than they, etc, it's suspicious. Although yes, in general, the US agents are really bad at doing behaviour testing. Anecdotal: Last year, I crossed the border a few times by car, visiting a friend I met on Tinder. I completely got away with it, giving honest answers at the border. Recently met someone else (a girl) who was stopped and accused of prostitution for doing the exact same thing. :/
      - tonyarkles 10y ago
        No doubt! My general strategy for crossing borders is to expect to be hassled a little bit, and to accordingly make sure that I have a good amount of patience stored up ahead of time. It took him about 3 seconds to get irritated.
- wowsig 10y ago
  The report said that cellphones are allowed. Agree with the avoiding US part. I'm currently reading a book on the state of physics under the third reich and the parallels on the state looking inwardly are chilling.
  - GuiA 10y ago
    What's the book?
- mgbmtl 10y ago
  I cancelled my participation in a free software conference this year, but I doubt it will be much noticed except by the core team (I help with internationalization). I also didn't make too much noise about it, not to harm the event/community. Most of our European partners already do not bother going to the US and organise their own conference. You may notice is less and less diversity, but it's already pretty low, and we're often not very good at noticing that.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  Cell phones are excluded from the ban, according to this article. That makes it highly unlikely that prevention of ability to text is the goal. I know very few people who text on their tablet, laptop, or camera.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    Cell phones are most likely excluded because they're so obnoxiously hard to compromise compared to laptops. Cell phones, you need per-hardware exploits and the vendors patch aggressively. When was the last time your laptop's USB controllers had a firmware upgrade for security hardening?
    - bzbarsky 10y ago
      That's a reasonable argument if the goal is being able to examine the devices. Nothing to do with texting, though. ;)
- hysan 10y ago
  Closer and closer? How about it's already happened. I just visited some of my friends in Japan, many of whom wanted to visit me in the US once their children got a bit older, and they all said they are straight up frightened of simply trying to enter the US. These are some of the most upstanding people you can meet with jobs like being teachers, government employees, etc. They are the last people who should be afraid of being found as suspicious persons, yet the reality is that based on what they see in the news, I can't blame them.
  - samirillian 10y ago
    Here's the thing about leaving Japan: it's always way more dangerous than staying in Japan. US homicide rate is like 10x higher. I'd bet your "upstanding" friends have layers of reservations about visiting.
    - GuiA 10y ago
      Japanese crime rates are underreported, and in reality most likely very similar to northern European countries in term of safety (and many other things, such as birth rate, another oft repeated misconception). Popular culture likes to portray Japan as a weird outlier country- but that's only if you compare it to the US. If you include the aforementioned European countries in the comparison, the US is the weird country.
      - ConceptJunkie 10y ago
        And the U.S. violence rates are really skewed. If you remove about half a dozen large cities, the U.S. rate for homicides, etc., is much more in line with the rest of the first world.
      - Karlozkiller 10y ago
        I dno about comparable to northern Europe. Stockholm, Sweden has recently had a huge burst in deadly shootings, and a Swedish official got caught in trying to lie to the BBC saying that rape is decreasing in Sweden. Official statistics show an increase between the last two data points, the last one being from 2015 or 2016 if I recall correctly. I have bit heard anything of the like in Japan, but as you say it could be because they don't have the same measures/report rate we have, or that I don't check Japanese statistics as much.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  > It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all. For me already well past that point, no way would I travel to the US for any reason, work or pleasure. I'm from the UK and I'm seriously contemplating getting out of here while the going is good as well.
et-al 10y ago
(Minor note: I think you mean "from cabins but not from checked baggage")
- KirinDave 10y ago
  Quite right. Thanks.
abandonliberty 10y ago
>I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage in an envelope. Just for fun. Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" just to make sure people know it's useless. I love the idea but I can't help but think that even with a completely airtight reason to be traveling with that item (e.g. you're a security researcher) you would be accused of terrorism. Somehow.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  Well they cannot yet force you to divulge encryption keys, right? And your nuke device might be worthless if they install a firmware exploit that will work later.
  - ChoGGi 10y ago
    By nuke device he may have been referring to https://www.usbkill.com https://www.usbkill.com https://youtu.be/X4OmkBYB4HY https://youtu.be/X4OmkBYB4HY
  - kwhitefoot 10y ago
    > Well they cannot yet force you to divulge encryption keys, right? They might not be able to force you but it seems that they can lock you up indefinitely for contempt of court in the US and for they definitely can give you five years in the UK because it is a specific offence there under RIPA. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919115 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248902.
- exabrial 10y ago
  That's the problem with Authoritarian (Liberal and Conservative) interpretations of the Constitution. USBkill sticks are non-regulated items, so you don't NEED the government's permission or a "good reason" to possess them. Unfortunately, Liberals have weakened the 2nd Amendment to mean "only if you have a good reason", and weakened the 1st Amendment to mean "as long as you don't offend someone", while Conservatives have weakened the 4th amendment to mean "we suspected it without good cause and it turns out we were right which made the whole search ok." I think if we stop weakening the ammendments we'll stop seeing violations of our basic civil liberties. But when California passes laws that regulate firearms you can wrap a thumb around (yes, this is a real thing), and Arizona passes a law that allows police to stop you if they suspect you're an illegal immigrant, we'll be in a slow spiral with decreasing rights.
sillysaurus3 10y ago
USB nuke Do you actually have one? I searched for a bit but it doesn't seem like they're sold. https://kukuruku.co/post/usb-killer/ https://kukuruku.co/post/usb-killer/
- matheweis 10y ago
  I am pretty sure you can buy them here (have never tried, though...) https://www.usbkill.com https://www.usbkill.com My favorite is the USB-C one, because the USB-C spec supports 100W...
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    Thanks! After huge demand, the USB Kill V3.0 comes in an anonymous version. No branding - No logos - Generic Case. The anonymous version is perfect for penetration testers that require discretion. There's no way this thing would be used in a pentest. It destroys computers. Generally pentesters try not to destroy the client's property. Amusing way to frame it, though.
    - dTal 10y ago
      "penetration testing" is usually a euphemism for "blackhat". "penetration testers that require discretion", doubly so.
andygambles 10y ago
Wipe devices before packing. Arrive in country then restore backup remotely.
- jungletek 10y ago
  If the 'goal' of this policy is, as postulated elsewhere in the thread, to allow physical access to devices in order to deliver malware, etc., then how would you know your wiped device hadn't acquired a bootkit along the way? Using a parcel-handling service, gov't or private, along with some tamper-indication of the package interior seems much safer, though not perfect by any means.
- int_19h 10y ago
  Having a device that looks wiped is grounds for suspicion in and of itself these days. In some cases, enough to turn someone away (remember, they can always do that to non-citizens, and you have very little recourse if they do).
  - necessity 10y ago
    Care to cite an example where this actually happened? I've brought wiped devices countless times.
    - 4ad 10y ago
      http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo...
    - arm 10y ago
      http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo... (HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13702981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13702981) Specifically, this part: “A month later, André attempted to fly to New Orleans again. This time, he brought what he thought was ample proof that he was not a sex worker: letters from his employer, pay stubs, bank statements, a lease agreement and phone contracts to prove he intended to return to Canada. When he went through secondary inspection at Vancouver airport, US Customs officers didn’t even need to ask for his passwords — they were saved in their own system. But André had wiped his phone of sex apps, browser history and messages, thinking that would dispel any suggestion he was looking for sex work. Instead, the border officers took that as suspicious. “They went through my computer. They were looking through Word documents,” André says. “I had nude photos of myself on my phone, and they were questioning who this person was. It was really humiliating and embarrassing.” “They said, ‘Next time you come through, don’t have a cleared phone,’ and that was it. I wasn’t let through. He said I’m a suspected escort. You can’t really argue with them because you’re trapped,” he says.” He wasn’t necessarily declined solely because he wiped the phone (they already suspected him due to the previous encounter), but they made it pretty clear they don’t like it since they considered that reason enough to not let him through a second time despite all the supporting paperwork.
razzaj 10y ago
Makes sense. However, how is that going to protect the US? The moment such information is public, perpetrators will not transport any digital devices with incriminating data. What you re left with are people being harrassed over a digital copy of "how to make a potato launcher" on their laptops. Frankly, it seems the US policing practices have been looking more and more USSR like. And i dont just mean since trump arrived to power.
- michaelt 10y ago
  how is that going to protect the US? [...] perpetrators will not transport any digital devices with incriminating data. Options include: 1. Bad guys with imperfect opsec (I see in your unallocated space there's a deleted TAILS ISO... onto a watchlist with you!) 2. Friends and relatives of bad guys (I see your nephew e-mailed you holiday photos from cybercafes near two different suspected terrorist training camps... onto a watchlist with him!) a bit like social media companies' 'shadow profiles' 3. Non-terrorist targets, like good old corporate espionage and political blackmail (Oh, you're a journalist/oil industry exec/prostitute? Let me just take a copy of your contacts, records and reports)
  - sneak 10y ago
    Pretty sure from leaked XKEYSCORE rulesets, anyone who downloaded or googled "tails" is already on that list.
- thrillgore 10y ago
  The answer is simple: It doesn't protect the US at all.
crispyambulance 10y ago
> I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage I don't see how that will be fun since the only way you would find out if "it worked" would be by getting pulled from your flight and detained.
felipemnoa 10y ago
>> Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" Label it "Very Bad USB" and put a bunch of noise in there. When you get detained tell them that you forgot the second part, "corrupts data"
joezydeco 10y ago
Hmm. A charge/discharge circuit with a voltage booster and very large capacitor in line? Doesn't take a large stretch of the imagination for a CBP official to declare that a "detonation device". Now you're really screwed.
- Ductapemaster 10y ago
  You nailed it: https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/13-usb-killer-v3.html https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/13-usb-killer-v3.html
sneak 10y ago
There is also a slightly less scary reason, which also applies to liquids: it is harder to fashion a bomb together and set it off when you can't touch it. A half gallon of petrol sitting inside your fake laptop in the hold is no biggie. A half gallon of petrol in the cabin is a whole different ballgame.
rpmcmurphy 10y ago
If this was actually about a security risk, they would be doing this on all airlines, not just airlines originating from Muslim majority countries. If you take Royal Jordanian to a European hub, then hop on a US carrier, you'll be able to take your gear on board. So this does exactly what to mitigate a security risk? It does however force business travelers to rethink flying Emirates, Etihad, etc and fly United, etc instead. I'll be interested to see if these airlines sue.

GuiA 10y ago

This. And also people not having devices on their person means they can't quickly text friends/family if they get detained/mistreated/etc. It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all, and make their reasoning known. Ie, refuse to give talks, attend conferences, etc. in the US.

hanspragt 10y ago
Cell phones are excluded from the ban, according to the article.
- virtuabhi 10y ago
  For now. According to the article.
  - PietdeVries 10y ago
    interestingly, you see airlines moving away from in-flight entertainment screens in the seat in front of you, in favor of BYOD. A logical move: let the clients bring their equipment (they bring it anyway) so you don't have to (install, maintain, spend fuel on, etc.). Now with airlines actually removing in flight entertainment, flying from the Middle East to New York can be quite a long trip: no laptop to watch a movie, no screen in front of you. I guess the US will stop banning as soon as one of these policy-makers is on the same flight as a few bored kids ;-)
    - joshgel 10y ago
      Maybe people will have to read books?!
      - madengr 10y ago
        True, it some like myself can't read on a plane due to motion sickness. Watching a video is fine, but not focusing on text.
        theandrewbailey 10y ago
        I've never finished reading more than a page in a moving car without feeling nauseous.
        deckiedan 10y ago
        My mum noticed that if she sets her kindle to 2 or so sizes larger text, she doesn't get motion sick any more.
      - brogrammernot 10y ago
        Yes. I love to read books on a 17 hour flight instead of being able to watch TV shows, work on programming problems offline or the countless other productive things that a laptop can provide.
KirinDave 10y ago
They already confiscate devices. I'm not sure that there is much to be gained by banning phones. The absence of a report coupled with the publicly available info of landing is probably enough to signal trouble.
saiya-jin 10y ago
no conferences, never ever will feel the need to work in US since there are simply better places with true freedom out there (nordic countries, switzerland and so on) but we will vote with our wallets - unless political climate changes drastically, no vacation in US. couple of thousands of bucks spent in local US economy over couple of weeks is a drop in the ocean, but hey, ocean is made of drops anyway.
akie 10y ago
This is already happening. I'm in Europe and I've heard quite a few friends (mostly academics) state that they're actively avoiding traveling to the US.
- chronicx0 10y ago
  This is not a problem considering most worldwide science and research advancements come from USA, China, Japan, or Korea. The academics can stay in Europe. The US companies will acquire them anyway.
- emanreus 10y ago
  I have to admit some border crossing incidents[1] are what I would imagine entering North Korea would be like, not the US. [1][10min audio] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M
  - mgbmtl 10y ago
    As someone from Canada, that guy was being a total dick, very aggressive, mansplaining the agent, which isn't surprising that it would trigger the customs agent. He would have had the same response from an agent at the border in Canada. Ex: "what shops are you planning to go to". It's fine to answer "I don't know yet". They're just testing behaviour. If you start being defensive or aggressive, pretend to know their jobs better than they, etc, it's suspicious. Although yes, in general, the US agents are really bad at doing behaviour testing. Anecdotal: Last year, I crossed the border a few times by car, visiting a friend I met on Tinder. I completely got away with it, giving honest answers at the border. Recently met someone else (a girl) who was stopped and accused of prostitution for doing the exact same thing. :/
    - tonyarkles 10y ago
      No doubt! My general strategy for crossing borders is to expect to be hassled a little bit, and to accordingly make sure that I have a good amount of patience stored up ahead of time. It took him about 3 seconds to get irritated.
wowsig 10y ago
The report said that cellphones are allowed. Agree with the avoiding US part. I'm currently reading a book on the state of physics under the third reich and the parallels on the state looking inwardly are chilling.
- GuiA 10y ago
  What's the book?
mgbmtl 10y ago
I cancelled my participation in a free software conference this year, but I doubt it will be much noticed except by the core team (I help with internationalization). I also didn't make too much noise about it, not to harm the event/community. Most of our European partners already do not bother going to the US and organise their own conference. You may notice is less and less diversity, but it's already pretty low, and we're often not very good at noticing that.
bzbarsky 10y ago
Cell phones are excluded from the ban, according to this article. That makes it highly unlikely that prevention of ability to text is the goal. I know very few people who text on their tablet, laptop, or camera.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  Cell phones are most likely excluded because they're so obnoxiously hard to compromise compared to laptops. Cell phones, you need per-hardware exploits and the vendors patch aggressively. When was the last time your laptop's USB controllers had a firmware upgrade for security hardening?
  - bzbarsky 10y ago
    That's a reasonable argument if the goal is being able to examine the devices. Nothing to do with texting, though. ;)
hysan 10y ago
Closer and closer? How about it's already happened. I just visited some of my friends in Japan, many of whom wanted to visit me in the US once their children got a bit older, and they all said they are straight up frightened of simply trying to enter the US. These are some of the most upstanding people you can meet with jobs like being teachers, government employees, etc. They are the last people who should be afraid of being found as suspicious persons, yet the reality is that based on what they see in the news, I can't blame them.
- samirillian 10y ago
  Here's the thing about leaving Japan: it's always way more dangerous than staying in Japan. US homicide rate is like 10x higher. I'd bet your "upstanding" friends have layers of reservations about visiting.
  - GuiA 10y ago
    Japanese crime rates are underreported, and in reality most likely very similar to northern European countries in term of safety (and many other things, such as birth rate, another oft repeated misconception). Popular culture likes to portray Japan as a weird outlier country- but that's only if you compare it to the US. If you include the aforementioned European countries in the comparison, the US is the weird country.
    - ConceptJunkie 10y ago
      And the U.S. violence rates are really skewed. If you remove about half a dozen large cities, the U.S. rate for homicides, etc., is much more in line with the rest of the first world.
    - Karlozkiller 10y ago
      I dno about comparable to northern Europe. Stockholm, Sweden has recently had a huge burst in deadly shootings, and a Swedish official got caught in trying to lie to the BBC saying that rape is decreasing in Sweden. Official statistics show an increase between the last two data points, the last one being from 2015 or 2016 if I recall correctly. I have bit heard anything of the like in Japan, but as you say it could be because they don't have the same measures/report rate we have, or that I don't check Japanese statistics as much.
noir_lord 10y ago
> It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all. For me already well past that point, no way would I travel to the US for any reason, work or pleasure. I'm from the UK and I'm seriously contemplating getting out of here while the going is good as well.

et-al 10y ago

(Minor note: I think you mean "from cabins but not from checked baggage")

KirinDave 10y ago
Quite right. Thanks.

abandonliberty 10y ago

>I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage in an envelope. Just for fun. Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" just to make sure people know it's useless. I love the idea but I can't help but think that even with a completely airtight reason to be traveling with that item (e.g. you're a security researcher) you would be accused of terrorism. Somehow.

AstralStorm 10y ago
Well they cannot yet force you to divulge encryption keys, right? And your nuke device might be worthless if they install a firmware exploit that will work later.
- ChoGGi 10y ago
  By nuke device he may have been referring to https://www.usbkill.com https://www.usbkill.com https://youtu.be/X4OmkBYB4HY https://youtu.be/X4OmkBYB4HY
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  > Well they cannot yet force you to divulge encryption keys, right? They might not be able to force you but it seems that they can lock you up indefinitely for contempt of court in the US and for they definitely can give you five years in the UK because it is a specific offence there under RIPA. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919115 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248902.
exabrial 10y ago
That's the problem with Authoritarian (Liberal and Conservative) interpretations of the Constitution. USBkill sticks are non-regulated items, so you don't NEED the government's permission or a "good reason" to possess them. Unfortunately, Liberals have weakened the 2nd Amendment to mean "only if you have a good reason", and weakened the 1st Amendment to mean "as long as you don't offend someone", while Conservatives have weakened the 4th amendment to mean "we suspected it without good cause and it turns out we were right which made the whole search ok." I think if we stop weakening the ammendments we'll stop seeing violations of our basic civil liberties. But when California passes laws that regulate firearms you can wrap a thumb around (yes, this is a real thing), and Arizona passes a law that allows police to stop you if they suspect you're an illegal immigrant, we'll be in a slow spiral with decreasing rights.

sillysaurus3 10y ago

USB nuke Do you actually have one? I searched for a bit but it doesn't seem like they're sold. https://kukuruku.co/post/usb-killer/ https://kukuruku.co/post/usb-killer/

matheweis 10y ago
I am pretty sure you can buy them here (have never tried, though...) https://www.usbkill.com https://www.usbkill.com My favorite is the USB-C one, because the USB-C spec supports 100W...
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  Thanks! After huge demand, the USB Kill V3.0 comes in an anonymous version. No branding - No logos - Generic Case. The anonymous version is perfect for penetration testers that require discretion. There's no way this thing would be used in a pentest. It destroys computers. Generally pentesters try not to destroy the client's property. Amusing way to frame it, though.
  - dTal 10y ago
    "penetration testing" is usually a euphemism for "blackhat". "penetration testers that require discretion", doubly so.

andygambles 10y ago

Wipe devices before packing. Arrive in country then restore backup remotely.

jungletek 10y ago
If the 'goal' of this policy is, as postulated elsewhere in the thread, to allow physical access to devices in order to deliver malware, etc., then how would you know your wiped device hadn't acquired a bootkit along the way? Using a parcel-handling service, gov't or private, along with some tamper-indication of the package interior seems much safer, though not perfect by any means.
int_19h 10y ago
Having a device that looks wiped is grounds for suspicion in and of itself these days. In some cases, enough to turn someone away (remember, they can always do that to non-citizens, and you have very little recourse if they do).
- necessity 10y ago
  Care to cite an example where this actually happened? I've brought wiped devices countless times.
  - 4ad 10y ago
    http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo...
  - arm 10y ago
    http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531 http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-custo... (HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13702981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13702981) Specifically, this part: “A month later, André attempted to fly to New Orleans again. This time, he brought what he thought was ample proof that he was not a sex worker: letters from his employer, pay stubs, bank statements, a lease agreement and phone contracts to prove he intended to return to Canada. When he went through secondary inspection at Vancouver airport, US Customs officers didn’t even need to ask for his passwords — they were saved in their own system. But André had wiped his phone of sex apps, browser history and messages, thinking that would dispel any suggestion he was looking for sex work. Instead, the border officers took that as suspicious. “They went through my computer. They were looking through Word documents,” André says. “I had nude photos of myself on my phone, and they were questioning who this person was. It was really humiliating and embarrassing.” “They said, ‘Next time you come through, don’t have a cleared phone,’ and that was it. I wasn’t let through. He said I’m a suspected escort. You can’t really argue with them because you’re trapped,” he says.” He wasn’t necessarily declined solely because he wiped the phone (they already suspected him due to the previous encounter), but they made it pretty clear they don’t like it since they considered that reason enough to not let him through a second time despite all the supporting paperwork.

razzaj 10y ago

Makes sense. However, how is that going to protect the US? The moment such information is public, perpetrators will not transport any digital devices with incriminating data. What you re left with are people being harrassed over a digital copy of "how to make a potato launcher" on their laptops. Frankly, it seems the US policing practices have been looking more and more USSR like. And i dont just mean since trump arrived to power.

michaelt 10y ago
how is that going to protect the US? [...] perpetrators will not transport any digital devices with incriminating data. Options include: 1. Bad guys with imperfect opsec (I see in your unallocated space there's a deleted TAILS ISO... onto a watchlist with you!) 2. Friends and relatives of bad guys (I see your nephew e-mailed you holiday photos from cybercafes near two different suspected terrorist training camps... onto a watchlist with him!) a bit like social media companies' 'shadow profiles' 3. Non-terrorist targets, like good old corporate espionage and political blackmail (Oh, you're a journalist/oil industry exec/prostitute? Let me just take a copy of your contacts, records and reports)
- sneak 10y ago
  Pretty sure from leaked XKEYSCORE rulesets, anyone who downloaded or googled "tails" is already on that list.
thrillgore 10y ago
The answer is simple: It doesn't protect the US at all.

crispyambulance 10y ago

> I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage I don't see how that will be fun since the only way you would find out if "it worked" would be by getting pulled from your flight and detained.

felipemnoa 10y ago

>> Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" Label it "Very Bad USB" and put a bunch of noise in there. When you get detained tell them that you forgot the second part, "corrupts data"

joezydeco 10y ago

Hmm. A charge/discharge circuit with a voltage booster and very large capacitor in line? Doesn't take a large stretch of the imagination for a CBP official to declare that a "detonation device". Now you're really screwed.

Ductapemaster 10y ago
You nailed it: https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/13-usb-killer-v3.html https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/13-usb-killer-v3.html

sneak 10y ago

There is also a slightly less scary reason, which also applies to liquids: it is harder to fashion a bomb together and set it off when you can't touch it. A half gallon of petrol sitting inside your fake laptop in the hold is no biggie. A half gallon of petrol in the cabin is a whole different ballgame.

rpmcmurphy 10y ago

If this was actually about a security risk, they would be doing this on all airlines, not just airlines originating from Muslim majority countries. If you take Royal Jordanian to a European hub, then hop on a US carrier, you'll be able to take your gear on board. So this does exactly what to mitigate a security risk? It does however force business travelers to rethink flying Emirates, Etihad, etc and fly United, etc instead. I'll be interested to see if these airlines sue.