4 ms·

Cause or effect? The first thing I thought when I saw the graph was that the cities with the most college graduates per capita were also the most expensive. C

by edw519 16y ago

Cause or effect? The first thing I thought when I saw the graph was that the cities with the most college graduates per capita were also the most expensive. Could it be that college graduates are the only ones who have earned enough to afford these places? Also the idea that (CollegeEducation = SmartPeople) is really played out. Many of the smartest people I know have achieved great things in spite of or instead of college. Finishing college is as much a matter of determination as "smartness", whatever that means.

nazgulnarsil 16y ago
it's more that level of educational achievement correlates pretty well with IQ.
- kylec 16y ago
  Not really. Anyone that's a hard worker can get an undergraduate degree, while there are many brilliant people who, for whatever reason, don't. Undergraduate degrees better correlate with family income than they do with IQ.
  - moultano 16y ago
    One of the two of you should link to an actual study before I'll believe claims like that.
    - jauer 16y ago
      Not sure if this counts, but: http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/cta/Pages/chapter6.aspx http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/cta/Pages/chapter6.asp... "Two other factors, family in receipt of state benefit and IQ categorisation, also have significant predictive powers, but are somewhat less important than a deviant classification. Respondents with below average IQ are less likely than those with above average IQ to pursue third level education. Those groups in receipt of state benefit are more likely to leave the educational system without completing second level. However, those in receipt of state benefit with above average IQ present a similar pattern of educational attainment as those with a below average IQ but with families not in receipt of state benefit. This finding indicates that socio-economic advantage can benefit individuals educationally. A similar pattern is evident for both the deviant and non-deviant groups but the deviant group is less likely to complete second level and go on to third level education."
    - sp332 16y ago
      Family income vs SAT scores: 95% http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-family-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-... SAT vs IQ: 81% http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W4M-4JDN6DP-1&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F28%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=89c1d5350297eba0dc3187ba1d92f3d4 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi... I couldn't find information on correlation between IQ and college degrees, though. My Google-fu is weak. Edit: a bunch more cool stuff (and sources) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Positive_correlations_with_IQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Positive_...
      - moultano 16y ago
        Thanks for the links, though I don't think the numbers are really comparable since the studies refer to two wholly disjoint populations (US and UK.)
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >Anyone that's a hard worker can get an undergraduate degree I'd find this rather sad if it were really true. If a degree is not mentally challenging then why not, why are Universities offering degrees that aren't focussed on higher learning (that would naturally exclude the less intellectually able)?
    - NaN 16y ago
      Anyone? Not sure about that. But most people, probably, yeah. The ex-government over here (UK) had a target for 50% of high-school graduates going to university (and, presumably, receiving a degree) -- it hasn't been met, yet, but substantial 'progress' has been made towards that. Naturally, this has resulted in substantial deteriorations in standards in many instances. An awful lot of subjects, even the more academic ones, are mostly about remembering things -- understanding is optional. This correlates heavily with determination, time spent, repetition, etc. Intelligence? Useful, usually, but optional. (Oh, and why? I dunno, the money?)
    - endtime 16y ago
      It's easy to get a degree. It's mentally challenging (in most cases) to get a good degree with a good GPA.
willchang 16y ago
I was wondering if here or elsewhere you could relate some of the things that these successful, non-college graduates did to become successful. I'm often in the position of giving career advice to undergrads, and some of them major in things so academic that as far as the workforce is concerned, they are degree-less. It would be nice to have a picture in my mind of what some people in similar situations have done.

by edw519 16y ago

nazgulnarsil 16y ago

it's more that level of educational achievement correlates pretty well with IQ.

kylec 16y ago
Not really. Anyone that's a hard worker can get an undergraduate degree, while there are many brilliant people who, for whatever reason, don't. Undergraduate degrees better correlate with family income than they do with IQ.
- moultano 16y ago
  One of the two of you should link to an actual study before I'll believe claims like that.
  - jauer 16y ago
    Not sure if this counts, but: http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/cta/Pages/chapter6.aspx http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/cta/Pages/chapter6.asp... "Two other factors, family in receipt of state benefit and IQ categorisation, also have significant predictive powers, but are somewhat less important than a deviant classification. Respondents with below average IQ are less likely than those with above average IQ to pursue third level education. Those groups in receipt of state benefit are more likely to leave the educational system without completing second level. However, those in receipt of state benefit with above average IQ present a similar pattern of educational attainment as those with a below average IQ but with families not in receipt of state benefit. This finding indicates that socio-economic advantage can benefit individuals educationally. A similar pattern is evident for both the deviant and non-deviant groups but the deviant group is less likely to complete second level and go on to third level education."
  - sp332 16y ago
    Family income vs SAT scores: 95% http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-family-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-... SAT vs IQ: 81% http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W4M-4JDN6DP-1&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F28%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=89c1d5350297eba0dc3187ba1d92f3d4 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi... I couldn't find information on correlation between IQ and college degrees, though. My Google-fu is weak. Edit: a bunch more cool stuff (and sources) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Positive_correlations_with_IQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Positive_...
    - moultano 16y ago
      Thanks for the links, though I don't think the numbers are really comparable since the studies refer to two wholly disjoint populations (US and UK.)
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >Anyone that's a hard worker can get an undergraduate degree I'd find this rather sad if it were really true. If a degree is not mentally challenging then why not, why are Universities offering degrees that aren't focussed on higher learning (that would naturally exclude the less intellectually able)?
  - NaN 16y ago
    Anyone? Not sure about that. But most people, probably, yeah. The ex-government over here (UK) had a target for 50% of high-school graduates going to university (and, presumably, receiving a degree) -- it hasn't been met, yet, but substantial 'progress' has been made towards that. Naturally, this has resulted in substantial deteriorations in standards in many instances. An awful lot of subjects, even the more academic ones, are mostly about remembering things -- understanding is optional. This correlates heavily with determination, time spent, repetition, etc. Intelligence? Useful, usually, but optional. (Oh, and why? I dunno, the money?)
  - endtime 16y ago
    It's easy to get a degree. It's mentally challenging (in most cases) to get a good degree with a good GPA.

willchang 16y ago

I was wondering if here or elsewhere you could relate some of the things that these successful, non-college graduates did to become successful. I'm often in the position of giving career advice to undergrads, and some of them major in things so academic that as far as the workforce is concerned, they are degree-less. It would be nice to have a picture in my mind of what some people in similar situations have done.