8 ms·

Scientists Who Found Gluten Sensitivity Evidence Failed to Confirm (2015)

77 points by neverminder 10y ago

adambrenecki 10y ago
As someone who has Coeliac disease: shhhhhhh! /s When I was first diagnosed, you couldn't buy groceries or eat out _anywhere_. Now, pretty much every restaurant has gluten free options marked on their menu; every supermarket has a wide range of bread, flour, cake mixes, biscuits, and so on; and manufacturers of packaged food are swapping out incidental gluten-free ingredients like wheat starch for gluten-free alternatives. You can bet that's because of people that think gluten-free food is "good for you", rather than the much smaller group of Coeliacs ourselves.
- headstorm 10y ago
  Why do you think it's a good thing for people with celiac disease that pretty much every restaurant has gluten free options on their menu? Most restaurants advertising gluten-free items don't have dedicated cookware, utensils, cutting surfaces, grill areas, etc., which greatly raises the risk of cross-contamination. And a significant percentage of gluten-free products in supermarkets are made in shared facilities that process wheat - why count that as helpful for celiac sufferers? EDIT: I'd seriously love to be able to psychologically go into the average restaurant or fast food place and buy their gluten-free food without getting sick, so I welcome evidence as to why I'm wrong.
  - nsxwolf 10y ago
    Shouldn't there be some data out there by now on how often such contamination incidents occur?
    - headstorm 10y ago
      Most restaurants take the approach that Applebee's takes, which is to disclaim responsibility. Why should someone with celiac disease risk it when milligrams over the course of a day can ruin one's life for potentially weeks? "Please be aware that during normal kitchen operations involving shared cooking and preparation areas, including common fryer oil, the possibility exists for food items to come in contact with other food products. Due to these circumstances, we are unable to guarantee that any menu item can be completely free of allergens." https://www.applebees.com/Allergen-Info https://www.applebees.com/Allergen-Info
      - marak830 10y ago
        I hate those messages with a passion. They really reflect poorly on myself and the chefs under my command. As if i would trust anyone in my brigade who didnt keep my standards, and as if i myself, was unable to control my stations.
  - marak830 10y ago
    Head Chef here: for a celiac I'll use fresh equipment for their meal. My cutting boards are bleached and sanitised every night, my knives are constantly being cleaned and we certainly don't reuse dirty pans.
    - headstorm 10y ago
      Where is this at, if you care to share? And do you know if your menu states anything about this? Most restaurants I look into (and won't eat at as a result) say stuff like: "Gluten Free – Did you know that Chef Heather knows each and every ingredient that goes into her dishes? If you require a gluten free dish, please tell your server, or ask the Chef about it. Gluten Free is Not available for every dish." http://plumtreebistro.net/bistro-menu/ http://plumtreebistro.net/bistro-menu/ But when I email the restaurant, such as Plum Bistro, I get replies such as, "Hi there we are not a gluten free restaurant. We simply offer gluten-free options it's not advisable to dine with us if you have celiac disease because cross-contamination may occur." Or another restaurant, after enquiring about their gluten-free options: "Thanks for your inquiry. We don't have specific cross contamination protocols." I find these, or restaurants that have fine print about shared facilities and not assuming risk of cross-contamination, to be the norm in Seattle.
      - codingdave 10y ago
        There is a difference between what the chef will do for you after a one-on-one discussion vs. what their marketing people will claim in written documentation that will come back to bite them in court if you get sick and sue them. We live in a litigious society, and it impacts our communications. But they are right -- if you are Celiac, and it is so serious that a shared utensil is dangerous to you... their CYA statements are probably correct that it is not advisable to eat there. That doesn't mean you cannot do it... but it is your decision whether to go against that advice, and take that risk upon yourself... not their decision to give you a green light and put that risk on their kitchen staff.
        marak830 10y ago
        I said it above but i want to say it again - in a well run kitchen, there should be no shared utensils. Even common kitchen tongs should not be shared between pan's, and should be cleaned between each meal. In my opinion (not so humble haha), if you can't even do that, you don't belong in a proper restaurant.
petercooper 10y ago
I'm just going to listen to my body. Had the blood test twice, negative both times, yet after years of isolation diets and experimentation, it's gluten that gives me diarrhoea and eczema and by not eating it, I'm fine. The doctors I spoke to before I worked out the cause just said "oh it's IBS, you'll just have to manage it".. except by giving up gluten I'm 100% fine, ha! I appreciate "hipsters" who avoid gluten because they help increase the variety of gluten free food options, but I'd just go paleo if it went away because the sickness isn't worth it.
- mrfusion 10y ago
  Have you tried organic vs non organic gluten containing products? I e always been curious if cases like yours are herbicide pesticide related.
  - petercooper 10y ago
    I haven't. I'd give it a go but I'd need to have a week where I wasn't going far afield(!) :) I eat gluten-free food which isn't marked as organic and have no problems with that so far. I do acknowledge my reactions might not be gluten per se and could be more subtle. However, my father does have biopsy-confirmed celiac disease, so I'm wondering if I've "caught it early" - GI trouble is the main malady across my father's family so if restricting my diet keeps me away from that, I'll pay that price as I've never been a foodie anyway :-)
    - mrfusion 10y ago
      Very interesting. A blind test would be interesting too. Eat gluten and gluten free versions of the same food without knowing which is which.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Just for the note, "organic" does not mean "herbicide and pesticide free". It means "using only herbicides and pesticides approved by the governing body". Frequently quoted in HN: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogs...
bhouston 10y ago
But there is a huge industry around this so it will be igored.
amelius 10y ago
This is big news. But how did they "prove" gluten sensitivity in the first place? Was this work not reproduced by other teams? How could science be erring for so long?
- randallsquared 10y ago
  "So long"? This was about four years from initial study to publication in popular press of the followup study. The polywater error was nearly a decade; it often takes quite a while to fund and perform followup studies.
  - amelius 10y ago
    I could be wrong, but I have friends who have been diagnosed to be "gluten sensitive" more than about five years ago. How would that be possible, given that it takes time for a study to enter clinical practice?
    - gus_massa 10y ago
      Did they have an official diagnostic made by a medic or it was a self diagnostic? Did the medic do any lab test or only a questionary of self reported symptoms?
      - amelius 10y ago
        I'm not sure, but it sounded like they visited a MD.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      I would think your friends have been diagnosed with coeliac disease, which has been known since 19th century and for which the mechanism was found in 1950's. The gluten sensitivity mentioned in this article is a different disorder.
    - randallsquared 10y ago
      How long it takes depends on the doctor. An ex of mine was talking about gluten sensitivity in 2005, but none of the docs she visited would admit to such a thing being possible (correctly, it now seems). According to this article, the original study that gave credence to such claims was done in 2011, and the more complete followup that removed that was presumably 2015 (since this article itself is dated then). A diagnosis in 2012 would have been hip, but not necessarily before the publication of the initial study.
fumar 10y ago
I wonder if this was somehow funded by the bread industry. People will eat gluten again. Most of my friends are actively avoiding gluten, I am not.
- Panoramix 10y ago
  Yes they were. http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/abstract http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/a... Funding comes partly from George Weston Foods, perhaps Australia's largest bakery. This is very relevant.
- jamesrcole 10y ago
  I don't know where you live, but here in Australia there are a number of brands of gluten-free bread produced by major bread companies.
- clacke2 10y ago
  The bread industry sells gluten-free bread at a premium.
manmal 10y ago
So how does this small sample study prove _anything_, apart from the conclusion that gluten intolerance cannot be self diagnosed?
- pweissbrod 10y ago
  It seems to prove the marketing power behind the word of a scientist EDIT: at least in the food industry. I bet climate scientists are jealous of the clout
- kstenerud 10y ago
  "A third, larger study published this month has confirmed the findings."
asdfologist 10y ago
Inaccurate title. Should be non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
- mdpye 10y ago
  While the title could be better, celiac's is not a sensitivity, it's an allergy - an autoimmune disorder. That's an entirely different class of complaint.
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  - thrill 10y ago
    Celiac disease is not an allergy.
arcticfox 10y ago
Whatever it is, something in gluten containing foods really messes up one side of my family (non Celiac). And they universally don't diet or care about eating healthy at all, so I'm inclined to believe them that it's not placebo. The study suggests it may be another "FODMAP" in foods containing gluten causing the effects. So the practical impact on a diet for "gluten sensitive" people at the moment is the same, although hopefully this advances the science of treatment and more specifically targets research. Then the article ignores that part about FODMAPs and suggests "go ahead, eat bread!". Great job, science writer.
- shezi 10y ago
  While I have not read the actual paper, according to the article the participants in the group were very carefully tested against different levels of gluten in their food, and they reported _negative effects_ for each level of gluten contents. Note that the food was _also_ controlled for FODMAPs, again, showing effects even without any known effector. So there does indeed seem to be an gastrointestinal effect of eating these foods, but, again, according to the article, it seems to be psychological in nature. The conclusion seems valid: gluten content doesn't make a difference, and negative effects are reported even in the absence of gluten and FODMAPs. At least for the group of participants, neither gluten nor other FODMAPs seem relevant. Until the affected people know better what it is that causes harm to them, they can (and probably should) ignore gluten content.
crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
I regularly had intestinal distress (constipation or diarrhea + bloating & gas) after most meals as a kid. It was trauma & stress/anxiety-induced. All this report tells me is science is still awful at controlling for emotional state of subjects or detecting trauma.
- deleted 10y ago
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totaldis 10y ago
Article is dated 2015 and the original 2014
jwildeboer 10y ago
Moderators: (2015) missing.
Booktrope 10y ago
If you go read the study, there is a potentially rather severe experimental flaw. My wife has what seems to be fairly severe gluten intolerance, which shows up approximately 3 days after she consumes even small amounts of glutinous. She had this for years before trying an elimination diet and discovering this effect. Please note that it shows up even if she does not know she has had gluten -- we sometimes are able to sort out ingredients after the fact, and if she has the reaction, it will show up if we look deep enough. The report says, the test was done by rotating diet every 3 days. If my wife were in the study, her reaction would show up in the next food rotation. So to measure the effect we see with my wife, the experiment would need to measure reactions with approximately a 3 day delay- otherwise it would look like the sensitivity was random. The article does not indicate that this approach was taken so I wonder about error. As for my wife, her health improved dramatically after eliminating gluten from her diet, though it's pretty clear that she doesn't have ciliac. Perhaps it's something else in the gluten containing foods (and not in other foods) besides gluten that's having this effect, but if so, avoiding gluten is a very good marker for whatever this gluten-containing-food substitute might be.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  >if we look deep enough That could be the problem. Also youll always notice an improvement due to placebo.
- torgoguys 10y ago
  Confirmation bias can be a strong thing. And it affects us all. I'd suggest you rexamine to be sure that it or a similar cognitive bias is not at play, particularly given the wording you used above which is very suggestive of putting yourself in an ideal situation where such biases can work: >we sometimes are able to sort out ingredients after the fact, and if she has the reaction, it will show up if we look deep enough. Not saying she doesn't have an issue with gluten (I don't know you two so how the heck would I know?) but given she has symptoms of something you owe it to yourself to make sure you are addressing the correct root cause. EDIT: looks like cpncrunch's sibling comment is getting at the same thing, only I would not use the term "placebo" for what could be at play here.
Nightshaxx 10y ago
The one problem is that these people are constantly eating gluten. The gut needs time to heal from things that bother it, and while inflamed anything will bother it. I have a gluten intolerance. If I am eating gluten constantly, I will get sick on many foods for a while; gluten free or not. I think overall this headline is just click bait. We shouldn't be looking to prove that "x thing does not exist" because people in real life do experience x and saying a test proves otherwise doesn't just make that condition vanish. Instead we should be looking at "is x really y" or "is there something we don't understand about x".
- hashkb 10y ago
  It won't make your condition vanish, but it will help you find out what is really happening. If it's not the gluten, and it's something else, wouldn't you a) want to know? and b) let off the slander campaign against bread?
- clacke2 10y ago
  If "y" isn't a thing, then "is x really y" has been answered. Gluten is not the only thing wheat is made of. The research suggests, but it has not been confirmed, that FODMAPs may be the thing that many people diagnosed as gluten-sensitive are actually sensitive to, and the gluten is just a proxy.
GirlsCanCode 10y ago
True Celiac Disease is a serious illness that destroys the intestines. It is diagnosed with biopsy, and, fortunately is very rare. One of the indicators is weight loss. There are no obese people with Celiac Disease. It's sickening how many people have "culturally appropriated" a serious disease so they can feel they're "eating clean" when they eat "gluten free foods". It's doubly sickening when the people who do this are obese.
ysavir 10y ago
Misleading title. > Scientists Who Found Gluten Sensitivity Evidence Have Now Shown It Doesn't Exist Should really be: > Scientists Who Found Gluten Sensitivity Evidence Failed to Confirm Original Findings VERY significant difference. They didn't prove that it doesn't exist, they proved that they couldn't single it out in a particular experiment.
- sctb 10y ago
  Thank you! We've updated the submission title.
sethammons 10y ago
My wife did an elimination diet a few years ago. It turns out that doesn't do well with either dairy or gluten. If she eats a bagel, she looks 6 months pregnant for a day or two.
xelxebar 10y ago
Kind of amazed at the number of people railing against this study and only providing personal anecdotes in return. Putting aside the dangers of that kind of thinking, it seems clear that a lot of people have become reasonably quite frustrated with real health symptoms they are experiencing. Feeling sick and being brushed off, regardless of the circumstances, must only make the situation harder to deal with. For those who believe firmly that they've nailed down gluten as the cause, maybe it'd just be safer to just keep those beliefs to yourself and not risk a potentially flippant diagnosis of psychosomatic idiopathy.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  People have always been like this... it just used to be that the "doctor" was always willing to bleed you or physick you, or whatever. Now doctors are trained only to render useful treatments, but the desire for woo is unchanged. As you say, people don't like feeling ill, and if the answer is, "You're human, maybe it's environmental, or it's just you, etc..." people would rather take the illusion of personal control. That has never changed, and is unlikely to change unless medicine advances enormously. People aren't very bright and thoughtful at the best of times. When we're really hurt, what little reason we have goes out of the window.
jamesrcole 10y ago
This article is reporting on a paper published in 2014. Here is an article reporting on some more recent research: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160726123632.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160726123632.h... <quote> "Biological explanation for wheat sensitivity found Weakened intestinal barrier, systemic immune activation may explain symptoms in people without celiac disease Findings from the study, which was led by researchers from Columbia University Medical Center (CUMC), were reported in the journal Gut. "Our study shows that the symptoms reported by individuals with this condition are not imagined, as some people have suggested," said study co-author Peter H. Green, MD, the Phyllis and Ivan Seidenberg Professor of Medicine at CUMC and director of the Celiac Disease Center. "It demonstrates that there is a biological basis for these symptoms in a significant number of these patients." </quote> If you're wondering about the Gut journal, "Gut is an official journal of the British Society of Gastroenterology. ... IMPACT FACTOR 14.921" https://www.google.com.au/search?q=gut+journal+impact+factor https://www.google.com.au/search?q=gut+journal+impact+factor http://gut.bmj.com/ http://gut.bmj.com/ Disclaimer: I don't have any expertise in this area, and this is just one paper - there may well be contrary studies that I'm not aware of.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  > Weakened intestinal barrier, systemic immune activation may explain symptoms in people without celiac disease The immune activation is likely caused by a response to the gut biome. One theory is that certain foods are not well absorbed by the digestion system, leading to an overabundance of food for the gut biome. This leads to bacterial overgrowth (or imbalance), causing an immune response. It's this immune response that causes the negative symptoms.
JacobJans 10y ago
One of the difficulties in thinking about "gluten sensitivity" and food sensitivities in general, is that it glosses over the complexity of the situation. For example, when you eat a food, it may interact with your gut biome. In fact, it can change the composition and activity of the bacteria in your gut. For some diseases, it is becoming increasingly clear that the primary cause of the problem is not the food, but how the gut biome reacts to the food. If your body is unable to properly absorb the food, gut bacteria may have an over-abundance of nutrients, causing them to grow too much and release toxins in the body, damaging your ability to absorb food, while also potentially poising you in the process. This has been implicated in diseases as far ranging as ulcerative colitis, Crohn's, autism, and Celiac disease. Scientists are finally beginning to catch on to the complexity of the situation. I have Crohn's disease, and am just now starting the Specific Carbohydate diet. The basic idea of the diet is that it starves the bacteria, by limiting foods that reach the final phase of the digestion process, where the problematic bacteria exist. There have been two new studies released this year with positive results. Sadly, its difficult to get funding for this kind of research; the monetary incentives are not there the way they are for drug companies.
Nomentatus 10y ago
Note that the current blood test for celiac disease will give a false negative if you haven't been eating wheat and have been avoiding gluten for some time, so it's perfectly possible to be celiac and be diagnosed as definitely not celiac if your doctor doesn't know this (which many don't.) Even a probe examination of the small intestine may give you a pass if you have been avoiding gluten for, say, months. The expected damage won't be there.
glaugh 10y ago
The takeaway from this research wasn't "this is all in people's heads", it's "there's something else about wheat that has a negative impact on some folks; science's best guess has been that it's gluten, but it's likely something else in wheat." Here is, for example, an article written by a less linkbaity news source than Business Insider: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/05/22/314287321/sensitive-to-gluten-a-carb-in-wheat-may-be-the-real-culprit http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/05/22/314287321/sen... If folks have doubts about whether some sensitivity to wheat exists in some people, searching PubMed for "gluten sensitivity" or "NCGS" should hopefully dispel those doubts. Or I guess you could hang out in an enclosed space with my in-laws after they eat bread. It's pretty unmistakeable.
- JacobJans 10y ago
  > but it's likely something else in wheat. This is actually flawed thinking. It may not be in the wheat at all, but in how the gut biome reacts to the wheat. This is an important distinction that can lead to very different treatments.
bozogluten 10y ago
On mobile I've had IBS nearly all my life. At 40 it started to get worse, and continued to get worse, until I started bleeding rectally. I started have bad diarrhea constantly, so bad that I was hospitalized for dehydration. Nobody could tell me what was wrong. I started food elimination, starting with dairy and gluten. In 4 days all my intestinal problems disappeared, along with lifelong migraines. Added diary back to my diet with no problems, added gluten, full on diarrhea and rectal bleeding. My wife is a biochemist, so she started doing blind testing, I didn't know what I was eating, my body did, I reacted within days of having gluten. I eliminated gluten from my diet and got rid of my IBS for good, 99.9% of my migraines and I lost 30 pounds I still ate the same just replaced the gluten. My son exhibited ADD/ADHD signs along with some severe emotional immaturity. In the course of my investigation I read that gluten intolerance is a spectrum disorder the symptoms can vary widely, so I took a shot and switched him to a gluten free diet. He reacted in about 18 hours, he became a totally different person. It was stunning, removing the gluten was life changing for him. His grades changed immediately, just looking into his eyes, they looked different. No more up and down no more over reactions, no more anything. Gluten alters his brain chemistry and it's noticeable within hours of his eating gluten. We didn't tell anyone at first that we removed gluten, but everyone who interacted with him noticed it the first time they saw him after we switched his diet. His teachers wrote notes, his friends wanted to know what meds he was on. We did blind testing with our son, once, the change was so dramatic it scared us, he eliminated gluten and hasn't looked back. My doctor and his doctors tell us we are succumbing to the effects of mass media. It's no wonder health care is a mess in the U.S.
- appleflaxen 10y ago
  so... were you tested for celiac disease?
  - r00fus 10y ago
    The Celiac test is expensive and sometimes comes up negative if you're just gluten intolerant.

77 points by neverminder 10y ago

As someone who has Coeliac disease: shhhhhhh! /s When I was first diagnosed, you couldn't buy groceries or eat out _anywhere_. Now, pretty much every restaurant has gluten free options marked on their menu; every supermarket has a wide range of bread, flour, cake mixes, biscuits, and so on; and manufacturers of packaged food are swapping out incidental gluten-free ingredients like wheat starch for gluten-free alternatives. You can bet that's because of people that think gluten-free food is "good for you", rather than the much smaller group of Coeliacs ourselves.

headstorm 10y ago
Why do you think it's a good thing for people with celiac disease that pretty much every restaurant has gluten free options on their menu? Most restaurants advertising gluten-free items don't have dedicated cookware, utensils, cutting surfaces, grill areas, etc., which greatly raises the risk of cross-contamination. And a significant percentage of gluten-free products in supermarkets are made in shared facilities that process wheat - why count that as helpful for celiac sufferers? EDIT: I'd seriously love to be able to psychologically go into the average restaurant or fast food place and buy their gluten-free food without getting sick, so I welcome evidence as to why I'm wrong.
- nsxwolf 10y ago
  Shouldn't there be some data out there by now on how often such contamination incidents occur?
  - headstorm 10y ago
    Most restaurants take the approach that Applebee's takes, which is to disclaim responsibility. Why should someone with celiac disease risk it when milligrams over the course of a day can ruin one's life for potentially weeks? "Please be aware that during normal kitchen operations involving shared cooking and preparation areas, including common fryer oil, the possibility exists for food items to come in contact with other food products. Due to these circumstances, we are unable to guarantee that any menu item can be completely free of allergens." https://www.applebees.com/Allergen-Info https://www.applebees.com/Allergen-Info
    - marak830 10y ago
      I hate those messages with a passion. They really reflect poorly on myself and the chefs under my command. As if i would trust anyone in my brigade who didnt keep my standards, and as if i myself, was unable to control my stations.
- marak830 10y ago
  Head Chef here: for a celiac I'll use fresh equipment for their meal. My cutting boards are bleached and sanitised every night, my knives are constantly being cleaned and we certainly don't reuse dirty pans.
  - headstorm 10y ago
    Where is this at, if you care to share? And do you know if your menu states anything about this? Most restaurants I look into (and won't eat at as a result) say stuff like: "Gluten Free – Did you know that Chef Heather knows each and every ingredient that goes into her dishes? If you require a gluten free dish, please tell your server, or ask the Chef about it. Gluten Free is Not available for every dish." http://plumtreebistro.net/bistro-menu/ http://plumtreebistro.net/bistro-menu/ But when I email the restaurant, such as Plum Bistro, I get replies such as, "Hi there we are not a gluten free restaurant. We simply offer gluten-free options it's not advisable to dine with us if you have celiac disease because cross-contamination may occur." Or another restaurant, after enquiring about their gluten-free options: "Thanks for your inquiry. We don't have specific cross contamination protocols." I find these, or restaurants that have fine print about shared facilities and not assuming risk of cross-contamination, to be the norm in Seattle.
    - codingdave 10y ago
      There is a difference between what the chef will do for you after a one-on-one discussion vs. what their marketing people will claim in written documentation that will come back to bite them in court if you get sick and sue them. We live in a litigious society, and it impacts our communications. But they are right -- if you are Celiac, and it is so serious that a shared utensil is dangerous to you... their CYA statements are probably correct that it is not advisable to eat there. That doesn't mean you cannot do it... but it is your decision whether to go against that advice, and take that risk upon yourself... not their decision to give you a green light and put that risk on their kitchen staff.
      - marak830 10y ago
        I said it above but i want to say it again - in a well run kitchen, there should be no shared utensils. Even common kitchen tongs should not be shared between pan's, and should be cleaned between each meal. In my opinion (not so humble haha), if you can't even do that, you don't belong in a proper restaurant.

petercooper 10y ago

I'm just going to listen to my body. Had the blood test twice, negative both times, yet after years of isolation diets and experimentation, it's gluten that gives me diarrhoea and eczema and by not eating it, I'm fine. The doctors I spoke to before I worked out the cause just said "oh it's IBS, you'll just have to manage it".. except by giving up gluten I'm 100% fine, ha! I appreciate "hipsters" who avoid gluten because they help increase the variety of gluten free food options, but I'd just go paleo if it went away because the sickness isn't worth it.

mrfusion 10y ago
Have you tried organic vs non organic gluten containing products? I e always been curious if cases like yours are herbicide pesticide related.
- petercooper 10y ago
  I haven't. I'd give it a go but I'd need to have a week where I wasn't going far afield(!) :) I eat gluten-free food which isn't marked as organic and have no problems with that so far. I do acknowledge my reactions might not be gluten per se and could be more subtle. However, my father does have biopsy-confirmed celiac disease, so I'm wondering if I've "caught it early" - GI trouble is the main malady across my father's family so if restricting my diet keeps me away from that, I'll pay that price as I've never been a foodie anyway :-)
  - mrfusion 10y ago
    Very interesting. A blind test would be interesting too. Eat gluten and gluten free versions of the same food without knowing which is which.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Just for the note, "organic" does not mean "herbicide and pesticide free". It means "using only herbicides and pesticides approved by the governing body". Frequently quoted in HN: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogs...

bhouston 10y ago

But there is a huge industry around this so it will be igored.

amelius 10y ago

This is big news. But how did they "prove" gluten sensitivity in the first place? Was this work not reproduced by other teams? How could science be erring for so long?

randallsquared 10y ago
"So long"? This was about four years from initial study to publication in popular press of the followup study. The polywater error was nearly a decade; it often takes quite a while to fund and perform followup studies.
- amelius 10y ago
  I could be wrong, but I have friends who have been diagnosed to be "gluten sensitive" more than about five years ago. How would that be possible, given that it takes time for a study to enter clinical practice?
  - gus_massa 10y ago
    Did they have an official diagnostic made by a medic or it was a self diagnostic? Did the medic do any lab test or only a questionary of self reported symptoms?
    - amelius 10y ago
      I'm not sure, but it sounded like they visited a MD.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    I would think your friends have been diagnosed with coeliac disease, which has been known since 19th century and for which the mechanism was found in 1950's. The gluten sensitivity mentioned in this article is a different disorder.
  - randallsquared 10y ago
    How long it takes depends on the doctor. An ex of mine was talking about gluten sensitivity in 2005, but none of the docs she visited would admit to such a thing being possible (correctly, it now seems). According to this article, the original study that gave credence to such claims was done in 2011, and the more complete followup that removed that was presumably 2015 (since this article itself is dated then). A diagnosis in 2012 would have been hip, but not necessarily before the publication of the initial study.

fumar 10y ago

I wonder if this was somehow funded by the bread industry. People will eat gluten again. Most of my friends are actively avoiding gluten, I am not.

Panoramix 10y ago
Yes they were. http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/abstract http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/a... Funding comes partly from George Weston Foods, perhaps Australia's largest bakery. This is very relevant.
jamesrcole 10y ago
I don't know where you live, but here in Australia there are a number of brands of gluten-free bread produced by major bread companies.
clacke2 10y ago
The bread industry sells gluten-free bread at a premium.

manmal 10y ago

So how does this small sample study prove _anything_, apart from the conclusion that gluten intolerance cannot be self diagnosed?

pweissbrod 10y ago
It seems to prove the marketing power behind the word of a scientist EDIT: at least in the food industry. I bet climate scientists are jealous of the clout
kstenerud 10y ago
"A third, larger study published this month has confirmed the findings."

asdfologist 10y ago

Inaccurate title. Should be non-celiac gluten sensitivity.

mdpye 10y ago
While the title could be better, celiac's is not a sensitivity, it's an allergy - an autoimmune disorder. That's an entirely different class of complaint.
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- thrill 10y ago
  Celiac disease is not an allergy.

arcticfox 10y ago

Whatever it is, something in gluten containing foods really messes up one side of my family (non Celiac). And they universally don't diet or care about eating healthy at all, so I'm inclined to believe them that it's not placebo. The study suggests it may be another "FODMAP" in foods containing gluten causing the effects. So the practical impact on a diet for "gluten sensitive" people at the moment is the same, although hopefully this advances the science of treatment and more specifically targets research. Then the article ignores that part about FODMAPs and suggests "go ahead, eat bread!". Great job, science writer.

shezi 10y ago
While I have not read the actual paper, according to the article the participants in the group were very carefully tested against different levels of gluten in their food, and they reported _negative effects_ for each level of gluten contents. Note that the food was _also_ controlled for FODMAPs, again, showing effects even without any known effector. So there does indeed seem to be an gastrointestinal effect of eating these foods, but, again, according to the article, it seems to be psychological in nature. The conclusion seems valid: gluten content doesn't make a difference, and negative effects are reported even in the absence of gluten and FODMAPs. At least for the group of participants, neither gluten nor other FODMAPs seem relevant. Until the affected people know better what it is that causes harm to them, they can (and probably should) ignore gluten content.

crawfordcomeaux 10y ago

I regularly had intestinal distress (constipation or diarrhea + bloating & gas) after most meals as a kid. It was trauma & stress/anxiety-induced. All this report tells me is science is still awful at controlling for emotional state of subjects or detecting trauma.

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totaldis 10y ago

Article is dated 2015 and the original 2014

jwildeboer 10y ago

Moderators: (2015) missing.

Booktrope 10y ago

If you go read the study, there is a potentially rather severe experimental flaw. My wife has what seems to be fairly severe gluten intolerance, which shows up approximately 3 days after she consumes even small amounts of glutinous. She had this for years before trying an elimination diet and discovering this effect. Please note that it shows up even if she does not know she has had gluten -- we sometimes are able to sort out ingredients after the fact, and if she has the reaction, it will show up if we look deep enough. The report says, the test was done by rotating diet every 3 days. If my wife were in the study, her reaction would show up in the next food rotation. So to measure the effect we see with my wife, the experiment would need to measure reactions with approximately a 3 day delay- otherwise it would look like the sensitivity was random. The article does not indicate that this approach was taken so I wonder about error. As for my wife, her health improved dramatically after eliminating gluten from her diet, though it's pretty clear that she doesn't have ciliac. Perhaps it's something else in the gluten containing foods (and not in other foods) besides gluten that's having this effect, but if so, avoiding gluten is a very good marker for whatever this gluten-containing-food substitute might be.

cpncrunch 10y ago
>if we look deep enough That could be the problem. Also youll always notice an improvement due to placebo.
torgoguys 10y ago
Confirmation bias can be a strong thing. And it affects us all. I'd suggest you rexamine to be sure that it or a similar cognitive bias is not at play, particularly given the wording you used above which is very suggestive of putting yourself in an ideal situation where such biases can work: >we sometimes are able to sort out ingredients after the fact, and if she has the reaction, it will show up if we look deep enough. Not saying she doesn't have an issue with gluten (I don't know you two so how the heck would I know?) but given she has symptoms of something you owe it to yourself to make sure you are addressing the correct root cause. EDIT: looks like cpncrunch's sibling comment is getting at the same thing, only I would not use the term "placebo" for what could be at play here.

Nightshaxx 10y ago

The one problem is that these people are constantly eating gluten. The gut needs time to heal from things that bother it, and while inflamed anything will bother it. I have a gluten intolerance. If I am eating gluten constantly, I will get sick on many foods for a while; gluten free or not. I think overall this headline is just click bait. We shouldn't be looking to prove that "x thing does not exist" because people in real life do experience x and saying a test proves otherwise doesn't just make that condition vanish. Instead we should be looking at "is x really y" or "is there something we don't understand about x".

hashkb 10y ago
It won't make your condition vanish, but it will help you find out what is really happening. If it's not the gluten, and it's something else, wouldn't you a) want to know? and b) let off the slander campaign against bread?
clacke2 10y ago
If "y" isn't a thing, then "is x really y" has been answered. Gluten is not the only thing wheat is made of. The research suggests, but it has not been confirmed, that FODMAPs may be the thing that many people diagnosed as gluten-sensitive are actually sensitive to, and the gluten is just a proxy.

GirlsCanCode 10y ago

True Celiac Disease is a serious illness that destroys the intestines. It is diagnosed with biopsy, and, fortunately is very rare. One of the indicators is weight loss. There are no obese people with Celiac Disease. It's sickening how many people have "culturally appropriated" a serious disease so they can feel they're "eating clean" when they eat "gluten free foods". It's doubly sickening when the people who do this are obese.

ysavir 10y ago

Misleading title. > Scientists Who Found Gluten Sensitivity Evidence Have Now Shown It Doesn't Exist Should really be: > Scientists Who Found Gluten Sensitivity Evidence Failed to Confirm Original Findings VERY significant difference. They didn't prove that it doesn't exist, they proved that they couldn't single it out in a particular experiment.

sctb 10y ago
Thank you! We've updated the submission title.

sethammons 10y ago

My wife did an elimination diet a few years ago. It turns out that doesn't do well with either dairy or gluten. If she eats a bagel, she looks 6 months pregnant for a day or two.

xelxebar 10y ago

Kind of amazed at the number of people railing against this study and only providing personal anecdotes in return. Putting aside the dangers of that kind of thinking, it seems clear that a lot of people have become reasonably quite frustrated with real health symptoms they are experiencing. Feeling sick and being brushed off, regardless of the circumstances, must only make the situation harder to deal with. For those who believe firmly that they've nailed down gluten as the cause, maybe it'd just be safer to just keep those beliefs to yourself and not risk a potentially flippant diagnosis of psychosomatic idiopathy.

M_Grey 10y ago
People have always been like this... it just used to be that the "doctor" was always willing to bleed you or physick you, or whatever. Now doctors are trained only to render useful treatments, but the desire for woo is unchanged. As you say, people don't like feeling ill, and if the answer is, "You're human, maybe it's environmental, or it's just you, etc..." people would rather take the illusion of personal control. That has never changed, and is unlikely to change unless medicine advances enormously. People aren't very bright and thoughtful at the best of times. When we're really hurt, what little reason we have goes out of the window.

jamesrcole 10y ago

This article is reporting on a paper published in 2014. Here is an article reporting on some more recent research: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160726123632.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160726123632.h... <quote> "Biological explanation for wheat sensitivity found Weakened intestinal barrier, systemic immune activation may explain symptoms in people without celiac disease Findings from the study, which was led by researchers from Columbia University Medical Center (CUMC), were reported in the journal Gut. "Our study shows that the symptoms reported by individuals with this condition are not imagined, as some people have suggested," said study co-author Peter H. Green, MD, the Phyllis and Ivan Seidenberg Professor of Medicine at CUMC and director of the Celiac Disease Center. "It demonstrates that there is a biological basis for these symptoms in a significant number of these patients." </quote> If you're wondering about the Gut journal, "Gut is an official journal of the British Society of Gastroenterology. ... IMPACT FACTOR 14.921" https://www.google.com.au/search?q=gut+journal+impact+factor https://www.google.com.au/search?q=gut+journal+impact+factor http://gut.bmj.com/ http://gut.bmj.com/ Disclaimer: I don't have any expertise in this area, and this is just one paper - there may well be contrary studies that I'm not aware of.

JacobJans 10y ago
> Weakened intestinal barrier, systemic immune activation may explain symptoms in people without celiac disease The immune activation is likely caused by a response to the gut biome. One theory is that certain foods are not well absorbed by the digestion system, leading to an overabundance of food for the gut biome. This leads to bacterial overgrowth (or imbalance), causing an immune response. It's this immune response that causes the negative symptoms.

JacobJans 10y ago

One of the difficulties in thinking about "gluten sensitivity" and food sensitivities in general, is that it glosses over the complexity of the situation. For example, when you eat a food, it may interact with your gut biome. In fact, it can change the composition and activity of the bacteria in your gut. For some diseases, it is becoming increasingly clear that the primary cause of the problem is not the food, but how the gut biome reacts to the food. If your body is unable to properly absorb the food, gut bacteria may have an over-abundance of nutrients, causing them to grow too much and release toxins in the body, damaging your ability to absorb food, while also potentially poising you in the process. This has been implicated in diseases as far ranging as ulcerative colitis, Crohn's, autism, and Celiac disease. Scientists are finally beginning to catch on to the complexity of the situation. I have Crohn's disease, and am just now starting the Specific Carbohydate diet. The basic idea of the diet is that it starves the bacteria, by limiting foods that reach the final phase of the digestion process, where the problematic bacteria exist. There have been two new studies released this year with positive results. Sadly, its difficult to get funding for this kind of research; the monetary incentives are not there the way they are for drug companies.

Nomentatus 10y ago

Note that the current blood test for celiac disease will give a false negative if you haven't been eating wheat and have been avoiding gluten for some time, so it's perfectly possible to be celiac and be diagnosed as definitely not celiac if your doctor doesn't know this (which many don't.) Even a probe examination of the small intestine may give you a pass if you have been avoiding gluten for, say, months. The expected damage won't be there.

glaugh 10y ago

The takeaway from this research wasn't "this is all in people's heads", it's "there's something else about wheat that has a negative impact on some folks; science's best guess has been that it's gluten, but it's likely something else in wheat." Here is, for example, an article written by a less linkbaity news source than Business Insider: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/05/22/314287321/sensitive-to-gluten-a-carb-in-wheat-may-be-the-real-culprit http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/05/22/314287321/sen... If folks have doubts about whether some sensitivity to wheat exists in some people, searching PubMed for "gluten sensitivity" or "NCGS" should hopefully dispel those doubts. Or I guess you could hang out in an enclosed space with my in-laws after they eat bread. It's pretty unmistakeable.

JacobJans 10y ago
> but it's likely something else in wheat. This is actually flawed thinking. It may not be in the wheat at all, but in how the gut biome reacts to the wheat. This is an important distinction that can lead to very different treatments.

bozogluten 10y ago

On mobile I've had IBS nearly all my life. At 40 it started to get worse, and continued to get worse, until I started bleeding rectally. I started have bad diarrhea constantly, so bad that I was hospitalized for dehydration. Nobody could tell me what was wrong. I started food elimination, starting with dairy and gluten. In 4 days all my intestinal problems disappeared, along with lifelong migraines. Added diary back to my diet with no problems, added gluten, full on diarrhea and rectal bleeding. My wife is a biochemist, so she started doing blind testing, I didn't know what I was eating, my body did, I reacted within days of having gluten. I eliminated gluten from my diet and got rid of my IBS for good, 99.9% of my migraines and I lost 30 pounds I still ate the same just replaced the gluten. My son exhibited ADD/ADHD signs along with some severe emotional immaturity. In the course of my investigation I read that gluten intolerance is a spectrum disorder the symptoms can vary widely, so I took a shot and switched him to a gluten free diet. He reacted in about 18 hours, he became a totally different person. It was stunning, removing the gluten was life changing for him. His grades changed immediately, just looking into his eyes, they looked different. No more up and down no more over reactions, no more anything. Gluten alters his brain chemistry and it's noticeable within hours of his eating gluten. We didn't tell anyone at first that we removed gluten, but everyone who interacted with him noticed it the first time they saw him after we switched his diet. His teachers wrote notes, his friends wanted to know what meds he was on. We did blind testing with our son, once, the change was so dramatic it scared us, he eliminated gluten and hasn't looked back. My doctor and his doctors tell us we are succumbing to the effects of mass media. It's no wonder health care is a mess in the U.S.

appleflaxen 10y ago
so... were you tested for celiac disease?
- r00fus 10y ago
  The Celiac test is expensive and sometimes comes up negative if you're just gluten intolerant.