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One thing I'm never quite sure of in these discussions as to what extent D-Wave are a bunch of shysters and to what extent they're actually honest believers tha

One thing I'm never quite sure of in these discussions as to what extent D-Wave are a bunch of shysters and to what extent they're actually honest believers that they've built a quantum computer and that their repeated savagings are nothing more than the reasonable expectations of sceptical science being done. Basically do they really believe they've built a quantum computer or do they actually know they haven't and have decided to pretend?

throwawaysed 10y ago
I have a feeling what's happened is that they built something they thought was quantum, but since it's so hard to measure qubits they had to develop a bunch of powerful statistical models to help read the qubits. These models have gotten so good at reading "correct" results from qubits that they've actually started solving the problems themselves. So are the qubits actually doing anything now or are the models solving problems from totally random qubit inputs? I think that's a question that even they can't answer
Analemma_ 10y ago
I wonder if this was another case of engineering/marketing disconnect, and by the time everything got sorted out they were in over their head. Engineer: "It can use supercooled qubits to solve certain kinds of annealing problems and-" Marketing (and management): "It's a quantum computer?" Engineer: "Well, no, it sort of uses quantum mechanics to to operate, but it doesn't-" Marketing: "For immediate release: D-Wave builds quantum computer!"
- wolfgke 10y ago
  In this sense we can argue that Intel will perhaps soon deliver a quantum computer since Intel is currently researching on 10nm Quantum Well Field Transistors (QWFET) to replace FinFET transistors that are currently used: > http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/analyst-predicts-intel-new-methods-moores-law/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/analyst-predicts-inte... If we are evil marketers we can even claim any computer is a quantum computer (though not using quantum effects in an essential way - but this can be left out), since anything in the world (e.g. matter) only exists because of the laws governing quantum physics.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    If you expand your criteria to unaffiliated evil clickbait authors, you'll surely find that, and worse. The bullcrap I've seen shared on transhumanist/AI Facebook groups is just mind-boggling.
EnFinlay 10y ago
Living in Vancouver, I know several people who have/do work at D-Wave, and I am certain that they are not a company of shysters. There are a lot of smart people working to make the thing do the thing, and I think the majority aren't concerned with proving it at every step, they're just trying to make it happen (because they believe that it's possible given current knowledge and technology). It wouldn't surprise me if there's a bit of a PR / Tech disconnect.
mabbo 10y ago
The smartest human I have ever known (a guy I went to university with) worked for them for a few years. He's the kind of person that if he says they're legit, I believe it because he's too smart for them to have fooled him, and he's too honest to be part of a fraud. He never gave any indication that he thought it wasn't legit. As far as I can tell, they think they're using quantum effects to speed up computation. The two questions that remain are A: are they right? and B: are the effects they are using giving them enough of an advantage to beat classical computers?
- edw 10y ago
  Carl Sagan has written at length about the limits of the credibility-assessing heuristic you're following. There's a reason that scientists have been snowed by paranormal fraudsters while professional magicians have not. I know nothing about D-Wave and have no opinion, but you need to look to people who manipulate people for a living—think the Amazing Randi—for accurate assessments of these sorts of things, not scientists. To paraphrase Sagan, the problem with scientists is that they are trained to fight against an opponent—Nature—that typically fights fair.
  - selimthegrim 10y ago
    If you think scientists in academia fight fair, I can only look on your Persil white view of the world with envy.
marcosdumay 10y ago
Looks to me they are composed of: 1 - Some engineers honestly working on a cool new device that can maybe improve computation; 2 - Dishonest salespeople trying to hype their product on any way that would increase sales. It started pretty much honest, with real explanations of their machines, and more research based deals than commercial ones. Then, when it started to market for government(s) their computer become a "quantum computer!!!" and everything they said stopped making sense.
M_Grey 10y ago
I think it doesn't matter that much to most people... only the results matter. You can really hear that in the blog we're responding to here. There's no need to worry about motives and all of the other bullshit, they just need to make their device do what it's supposed to, in a way that can't be replicated by a similarly dedicated classical computer. If they're people with the best of intentions and stars in their eyes, who produce nothing of value... who cares? If they're cynical hacks working their way up the funding ladder until they can actually produce what they've claimed to have for years, and actually produce it? Great, again, the backstory matters a lot less to most who aren't looking to invest. D-Wave existing doesn't prevent anyone else from pursuing quantum supremacy, and no one is being forced to invest in something so dubious.

throwawaysed 10y ago

I have a feeling what's happened is that they built something they thought was quantum, but since it's so hard to measure qubits they had to develop a bunch of powerful statistical models to help read the qubits. These models have gotten so good at reading "correct" results from qubits that they've actually started solving the problems themselves. So are the qubits actually doing anything now or are the models solving problems from totally random qubit inputs? I think that's a question that even they can't answer

Analemma_ 10y ago

I wonder if this was another case of engineering/marketing disconnect, and by the time everything got sorted out they were in over their head. Engineer: "It can use supercooled qubits to solve certain kinds of annealing problems and-" Marketing (and management): "It's a quantum computer?" Engineer: "Well, no, it sort of uses quantum mechanics to to operate, but it doesn't-" Marketing: "For immediate release: D-Wave builds quantum computer!"

wolfgke 10y ago
In this sense we can argue that Intel will perhaps soon deliver a quantum computer since Intel is currently researching on 10nm Quantum Well Field Transistors (QWFET) to replace FinFET transistors that are currently used: > http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/analyst-predicts-intel-new-methods-moores-law/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/analyst-predicts-inte... If we are evil marketers we can even claim any computer is a quantum computer (though not using quantum effects in an essential way - but this can be left out), since anything in the world (e.g. matter) only exists because of the laws governing quantum physics.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  If you expand your criteria to unaffiliated evil clickbait authors, you'll surely find that, and worse. The bullcrap I've seen shared on transhumanist/AI Facebook groups is just mind-boggling.

EnFinlay 10y ago

Living in Vancouver, I know several people who have/do work at D-Wave, and I am certain that they are not a company of shysters. There are a lot of smart people working to make the thing do the thing, and I think the majority aren't concerned with proving it at every step, they're just trying to make it happen (because they believe that it's possible given current knowledge and technology). It wouldn't surprise me if there's a bit of a PR / Tech disconnect.

mabbo 10y ago

The smartest human I have ever known (a guy I went to university with) worked for them for a few years. He's the kind of person that if he says they're legit, I believe it because he's too smart for them to have fooled him, and he's too honest to be part of a fraud. He never gave any indication that he thought it wasn't legit. As far as I can tell, they think they're using quantum effects to speed up computation. The two questions that remain are A: are they right? and B: are the effects they are using giving them enough of an advantage to beat classical computers?

edw 10y ago
Carl Sagan has written at length about the limits of the credibility-assessing heuristic you're following. There's a reason that scientists have been snowed by paranormal fraudsters while professional magicians have not. I know nothing about D-Wave and have no opinion, but you need to look to people who manipulate people for a living—think the Amazing Randi—for accurate assessments of these sorts of things, not scientists. To paraphrase Sagan, the problem with scientists is that they are trained to fight against an opponent—Nature—that typically fights fair.
- selimthegrim 10y ago
  If you think scientists in academia fight fair, I can only look on your Persil white view of the world with envy.

marcosdumay 10y ago

Looks to me they are composed of: 1 - Some engineers honestly working on a cool new device that can maybe improve computation; 2 - Dishonest salespeople trying to hype their product on any way that would increase sales. It started pretty much honest, with real explanations of their machines, and more research based deals than commercial ones. Then, when it started to market for government(s) their computer become a "quantum computer!!!" and everything they said stopped making sense.

M_Grey 10y ago

I think it doesn't matter that much to most people... only the results matter. You can really hear that in the blog we're responding to here. There's no need to worry about motives and all of the other bullshit, they just need to make their device do what it's supposed to, in a way that can't be replicated by a similarly dedicated classical computer. If they're people with the best of intentions and stars in their eyes, who produce nothing of value... who cares? If they're cynical hacks working their way up the funding ladder until they can actually produce what they've claimed to have for years, and actually produce it? Great, again, the backstory matters a lot less to most who aren't looking to invest. D-Wave existing doesn't prevent anyone else from pursuing quantum supremacy, and no one is being forced to invest in something so dubious.