8 ms·

That's why I always pay 15% tip at restaurants regardless of the service. I disagree with tipping (an after-the-fact unilateral contract), but we know that rest

That's why I always pay 15% tip at restaurants regardless of the service. I disagree with tipping (an after-the-fact unilateral contract), but we know that restaurants don't pay fair wages. EDIT: Following some comments here, I feel I need to add that I'm in Canada where 15% is considered "normal".

thesmallestcat 10y ago
15%, regardless of the service? Don't pat yourself on the back so hard.
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  I'm not patting myself on the back... I'm saying that I don't want to participate in the tipping system, but we know that waiters are not paid fairly. I see the 15% as the salary that is not, but should be, included in the menu. The fact that you thought I was getting an ego boost from tipping is the reason tipping exist, giving people an illusion of power/status.
- ProfessorLayton 10y ago
  What's the implication here? The parent post paid more than they were required, if not then the business could charge more to cover their costs. This kind of thinking is precisely what's wrong with tipping in the first place.
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    The implication is that 20% the widely accepted minimum "good tip" rate, and consistently tipping 15% is consistently being cheap. Especially when you're a tech worker FFS. Let's break out of our echo chamber a bit. In the US, tipping isn't "paying more than required," it's basic manners. You can argue until you're blue in the face about how businesses are to blame, but the vast majority of society, who have no big beef with tipping culture, will find you cheap rather than discerning.
    - dorfsmay 10y ago
      I'm in Canada whre 15% is considered "normal". I did not know 20% was the normal in the U.S.
      - NikolaNovak 10y ago
        Agreed; 15% here in Canada is considered normal/polite/nice, but I also believe our wages for service workers are higher. The USA "$2.13/hour for tipped worker" feels like both business AND government forcing you to pay employee wages... Canada minimum wage: https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.p... Liquor Servers Minimum Wage $9.90/hour
      - 1123581321 10y ago
        20% is not the normal minimum in the US. Edit: here are some supporting links. 15-20% suggested with 20%+ recognized as a minority opinion and for extra good service: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/travel/experts-guide-to-tipping-in-the-united-states/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/travel/experts-guide-to-tippin... The highest tipping state averages 17% and the lowest averages 15%: https://qz.com/189458/the-united-states-of-tipping/ https://qz.com/189458/the-united-states-of-tipping/
        dorfsmay 10y ago
        More proof that tipping is wrong, local variances with no way to find the local standard!
      - rhino369 10y ago
        Some people have been claiming that 20% is normal for the US. But many people believe 15%. There are even some people who claim that 25% should be the norm. You can definitely get away with 15% at places where you don't regularly eat. I do 20% at regular places where the waiter will remember me for sure and I don't want them to get the idea that I don't like them.
    - whathappenedto 10y ago
arebop 10y ago
There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Uber traditionally operates on the service-included model. That was very well established before some drivers agitated for a change. Since then, Uber has adopted an inconsistent policy [https://help.uber.com/h/f7385bf5-1748-4fd0-a57f-3d9b62facc45 https://help.uber.com/h/f7385bf5-1748-4fd0-a57f-3d9b62facc45]. In this condition, I don't believe users have any moral obligation to tip. Drivers should also have very wide expectations about whether or how much tip they will receive. If drivers are unhappy with their Uber comp, they can drive for Lyft or on their own account or whatever. There is no need for riders to condescend to intervene in these labor disputes by bestowing tips, and in fact doing so may encourage the kind of abuse that inevitably follows the establishment of customary tipping (minimum wage exemptions and pressure for laborers to evade taxes).
- iLoch 10y ago
  > There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Is this a joke? Not only is it not universal, it's not even customary. The agreement you have with the restaurant is this: you sit down, are served, eat food, and pay. Baseline service is free, that's what you're paying the restaurant for. If the person waiting on me has a problem with me not tipping, they're welcome to take their wage issue up with their employer. I can only say this as someone who supports fair wages for service industries though. I believe a lower minimum wage for restaurant/bar services is a problem. But absolutely under no circumstance will I provide a compulsory tip. It's not my job to pay the employees. There is a secondary agreement you have with the waiting staff: if you go above and beyond your job description to provide excellent service, you may be rewarded as recognition. Even then, many countries believe that excellence to be part of the job, so tips are not accepted. Tip if you're provided with above standard service, don't if you're not. What's hard about that?
  - tlrobinson 10y ago
r00fus 10y ago
This. I feel compelled in restaurants to provide a 15%+ unless I got bad service. With kids (and fewer restaurant visits) it's easier to justify a substantive tip - the table is usually a mess at the end and we do request more attention from the wait staff.

thesmallestcat 10y ago

15%, regardless of the service? Don't pat yourself on the back so hard.

dorfsmay 10y ago
I'm not patting myself on the back... I'm saying that I don't want to participate in the tipping system, but we know that waiters are not paid fairly. I see the 15% as the salary that is not, but should be, included in the menu. The fact that you thought I was getting an ego boost from tipping is the reason tipping exist, giving people an illusion of power/status.
ProfessorLayton 10y ago
What's the implication here? The parent post paid more than they were required, if not then the business could charge more to cover their costs. This kind of thinking is precisely what's wrong with tipping in the first place.
- thesmallestcat 10y ago
  The implication is that 20% the widely accepted minimum "good tip" rate, and consistently tipping 15% is consistently being cheap. Especially when you're a tech worker FFS. Let's break out of our echo chamber a bit. In the US, tipping isn't "paying more than required," it's basic manners. You can argue until you're blue in the face about how businesses are to blame, but the vast majority of society, who have no big beef with tipping culture, will find you cheap rather than discerning.
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    I'm in Canada whre 15% is considered "normal". I did not know 20% was the normal in the U.S.
    - NikolaNovak 10y ago
      Agreed; 15% here in Canada is considered normal/polite/nice, but I also believe our wages for service workers are higher. The USA "$2.13/hour for tipped worker" feels like both business AND government forcing you to pay employee wages... Canada minimum wage: https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.p... Liquor Servers Minimum Wage $9.90/hour
    - 1123581321 10y ago
      20% is not the normal minimum in the US. Edit: here are some supporting links. 15-20% suggested with 20%+ recognized as a minority opinion and for extra good service: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/travel/experts-guide-to-tipping-in-the-united-states/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/travel/experts-guide-to-tippin... The highest tipping state averages 17% and the lowest averages 15%: https://qz.com/189458/the-united-states-of-tipping/ https://qz.com/189458/the-united-states-of-tipping/
      - dorfsmay 10y ago
        More proof that tipping is wrong, local variances with no way to find the local standard!
    - rhino369 10y ago
      Some people have been claiming that 20% is normal for the US. But many people believe 15%. There are even some people who claim that 25% should be the norm. You can definitely get away with 15% at places where you don't regularly eat. I do 20% at regular places where the waiter will remember me for sure and I don't want them to get the idea that I don't like them.
  - whathappenedto 10y ago

arebop 10y ago

There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Uber traditionally operates on the service-included model. That was very well established before some drivers agitated for a change. Since then, Uber has adopted an inconsistent policy [https://help.uber.com/h/f7385bf5-1748-4fd0-a57f-3d9b62facc45 https://help.uber.com/h/f7385bf5-1748-4fd0-a57f-3d9b62facc45]. In this condition, I don't believe users have any moral obligation to tip. Drivers should also have very wide expectations about whether or how much tip they will receive. If drivers are unhappy with their Uber comp, they can drive for Lyft or on their own account or whatever. There is no need for riders to condescend to intervene in these labor disputes by bestowing tips, and in fact doing so may encourage the kind of abuse that inevitably follows the establishment of customary tipping (minimum wage exemptions and pressure for laborers to evade taxes).

iLoch 10y ago
> There is universal agreement about tipping at restaurants. Tips of 15% (or 20%?) are definitely customary, expected, priced-in. People who don't leave tips after experiencing decent service are definitely not paying their fair share. Is this a joke? Not only is it not universal, it's not even customary. The agreement you have with the restaurant is this: you sit down, are served, eat food, and pay. Baseline service is free, that's what you're paying the restaurant for. If the person waiting on me has a problem with me not tipping, they're welcome to take their wage issue up with their employer. I can only say this as someone who supports fair wages for service industries though. I believe a lower minimum wage for restaurant/bar services is a problem. But absolutely under no circumstance will I provide a compulsory tip. It's not my job to pay the employees. There is a secondary agreement you have with the waiting staff: if you go above and beyond your job description to provide excellent service, you may be rewarded as recognition. Even then, many countries believe that excellence to be part of the job, so tips are not accepted. Tip if you're provided with above standard service, don't if you're not. What's hard about that?
- tlrobinson 10y ago

r00fus 10y ago

This. I feel compelled in restaurants to provide a 15%+ unless I got bad service. With kids (and fewer restaurant visits) it's easier to justify a substantive tip - the table is usually a mess at the end and we do request more attention from the wait staff.